Player Watch - Ashley Phillips

[McFlash]

I honestly hate posts like this I really do, especially from someone who supposedly has 'insider knowledge '. This is all your own opinion and because you have this ITK thing you know that you saying stuff like this is going to stir people up because you never put any context into it. Ok so you feel he could use more of the youth team, fair enough but you also give him zero credit for trusting Udogie and Sarr to play regularly at 20 years old, nor do you give him credit for throwing VDV straight in at 22.

I really do find some of your posting utterly infuriating I have to be honest. 'A lot of bad decisions ' is pure hyperbole and disingenuous and you should know better than to say something like that in here.

There seems to be a bit of a theme with some of our itk's at present.
They're "fully in support of Ange" yet seem to be rather quick in calling out his supposed shortcomings, then refusing to acknowledge any counter opinion or view.

While we don't all have to think the sun shines out of his arse, I do think some of the criticism being aimed at him is tenuous at best.
I don't really agree with much of it but if you dare offer a different view, you'll usually be told you don't understand the game, or that you don't have all the information.

Edit. "A bit of a theme", not "a shit of a theme"!

 

[McFlash]

Perhaps, but I'd think that big ange deserves the benefit over the doubt. He's earnt that

He sees him in training regularly, and can probably tell if he is ready or not.

Not to mention that Ange has been here six months and has been fighting a tide of adversity from day one, from the messed up pre-season, the late sale of Kane, through to the current injuries and suspensions.
It's not much of a surprise that he doesn't want to throw youngsters into the cauldron just yet.

Ok, Royal at CB isn't ideal but he's an experienced pro who has already shown that he can be relied upon in several positions.
Personally, I'd probably choose him over throwing an 18 year old to the wolves.
It's not ideal but it's probably the sensible and stable choice right now.

 

[McFlash]

I respect your comments. Personally I have issues with Emerson at CB, and he will get targeted and exposed over the weeks. Brighton are severely and heavily depleted, perfect time to put him in. Are we going to wait until bigger tests to come? And as far as Dier comes into it (if he did) I then give up on what the manager is trying to do.

I don't think many of us want to see Dier in there, he's been a good servant but is the complete opposite CB to that which this system needs.
Royal offers experience and work rate and while he has his flaws, I'd probably choose him over Phillips at the moment.

While Brighton are depleted, they still play the same way which will be high tempo and high press, that's going to be hard for an inexperienced 18 year old CB to deal with and if he makes an early mistake, it could have a serious impact on his confidence in not just the rest of the game, but for quite a while.

If we had our first choice midfield in front of him and Mickey's calming presence beside him, I wouldn't mind chucking him in but with what we've currently got available, I'd stick with Royal for this one.

 

[only1waddle]

Not to mention that Ange has been here six months and has been fighting a tide of adversity from day one, from the messed up pre-season, the late sale of Kane, through to the current injuries and suspensions.
It's not much of a surprise that he doesn't want to throw youngsters into the cauldron just yet.

Ok, Royal at CB isn't ideal but he's an experienced pro who has already shown that he can be relied upon in several positions.
Personally, I'd probably choose him over throwing an 18 year old to the wolves.
It's not ideal but it's probably the sensible and stable choice right now.

Yep, For me, Ange has used the new recruits really well, he's used those he's inherited well, he's been hamstrung by previous poor purchasing, attempting to change an entire culture, implement a new system, work with new coaches, work with new recruitment, work with Levy, work within our largest injury crisis in years.
We're 4th, but you know, he's made lots of bad decisions.

 

[only1waddle]

I don't think many of us want to see Dier in there, he's been a good servant but is the complete opposite CB to that which this system needs.
Royal offers experience and work rate and while he has his flaws, I'd probably choose him over Phillips at the moment.

While Brighton are depleted, they still play the same way which will be high tempo and high press, that's going to be hard for an inexperienced 18 year old CB to deal with and if he makes an early mistake, it could have a serious impact on his confidence in not just the rest of the game, but for quite a while.

If we had our first choice midfield in front of him and Mickey's calming presence beside him, I wouldn't mind chucking him in but with what we've currently got available, I'd stick with Royal for this one.

This is it for me, give him VdV and CM's who offer a better out ball and I'm all on board playing Philips.

 

[Hercules]

I don't think many of us want to see Dier in there, he's been a good servant but is the complete opposite CB to that which this system needs.
Royal offers experience and work rate and while he has his flaws, I'd probably choose him over Phillips at the moment.

While Brighton are depleted, they still play the same way which will be high tempo and high press, that's going to be hard for an inexperienced 18 year old CB to deal with and if he makes an early mistake, it could have a serious impact on his confidence in not just the rest of the game, but for quite a while.

If we had our first choice midfield in front of him and Mickey's calming presence beside him, I wouldn't mind chucking him in but with what we've currently got available, I'd stick with Royal for this one.

Fair enough, but I stick to my comments my friend

 

[Locotoro]

There seems to be a shit of a theme with some of our itk's at present.
They're "fully in support of Ange" yet seem to be rather quick in calling out his supposed shortcomings, then refusing to acknowledge any counter opinion or view.

While we don't all have to think the sun shines out of his arse, I do think some of the criticism being aimed at him is tenuous at best.
I don't really agree with much of it but if you dare offer a different view, you'll usually be told you don't understand the game, or that you don't have all the information.

Just to take the sting out of the tail of this debate let's remember opinions are as diverse and colourful as rectums.

I respect everyone has a different perspective on our great club and how we should be progressing and it will depend on a multitude of factors however, being ITK doesn't make anyone's opinion more or less valid and I don't think herc is suggesting that his opinions are more valid. If they are sharing information, and that is always appreciated l, even the facts can be tainted by the smell of that rectum. Just because you stick a rose in it doesn't make it a vase. It's still an arsehole with a flower sticking out.

 

[McFlash]

Yep, For me, Ange has used the new recruits really well, he's used those he's inherited well, he's been hamstrung by previous poor purchasing, attempting to change an entire culture, implement a new system, work with new coaches, work with new recruitment, work with Levy, work within our largest injury crisis in years.
We're 4th, but you know, he's made lots of bad decisions.

Exactly. He's probably had the hardest start a new manager could imagine but despite it all, he's changed the club already and has us playing the most enjoyable football we've seen in years.

There has been the odd slightly questionable decision in game maybe, but not one where I've been thinking "what the actual fuck?".

He's working with half a fit squad and the other half are players that don't suit his way of playing. I'm certainly not going to pile in on him because he may not choose an inexperienced 18yr old CB at a time when the first choice 11 is basically whoever's fit.

 

[McFlash]

Just to take the sting out of the tail of this debate let's remember opinions are as diverse and colourful as rectums.

I respect everyone has a different perspective on our great club and how we should be progressing and it will depend on a multitude of factors however, being ITK doesn't make anyone's opinion more or less valid and I don't think herc is suggesting that his opinions are more valid. If they are sharing information, and that is always appreciated l, even the facts can be tainted by the smell of that rectum. Just because you stick a rose in it doesn't make it a vase. It's still an arsehole with a flower sticking out.

I'll have to bow to your knowledge of rectums!

 

[McFlash]

Fair enough, but I stick to Mingus my friend

Charles Mingus?
I mean, he was a great jazz musician but I'm not really sure where he fits in here?

 

[Locotoro]

I'll have to bow to your knowledge of rectums!

It's a subject that requires deep study and penetrative thought.

 

[McFlash]

It's a subject that requires deep study and penetrative thought.

Well played.

 

[Hercules]

Charles Mingus?
I mean, he was a great jazz musician but I'm not really sure where he fits in here?

corrected

 

[$hoguN]

Seems to be injured. Would love to us go with Dorrington

 

[Locotoro]

corrected

How the hell did comments autocorrect to Mingus???

 

[McFlash]

corrected

Fair enough mate, we all know it's a game of onions and it would be boring as hell if we all agreed with each other.

As I say, I'm desperate to see some of our youngsters get game time because there's nothing more satisfying for me than seeing a kid break through, it's one of the best things about supporting a club.
But, I also see the pressure on a manager and can understand why it's not a decision to take lightly.

What I will add is that if we haven't seen more of Phillips, Donley and maybe Dorrington by the end of the season, I'll be right behind you voicing some concerns.
There's no point in putting as much into the academy as we have (very) recently, if they're not getting a chance. It's just not sustainable.

(But that may also depend on what we do this month, with D1 now suggesting we may even be in for two cb's - which I find surprising tbh).

 

[Japhet]

There often seems to be a clamour to play someone we've not seen, presumably based on the asumption that they must be better than what we have seen. Ange is around these players the whole time and has shown that he's not the least bit phased at using our young players. Whatever he decides is good enough for me.

 

[Trent Crimm]

Seems to be injured. Would love to us go with Dorrington

Heard it from here I did.

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

I see your argument, but respectfully I disagree. I need not reference 16,17,18 year olds making their PL debuts. Rico Lewis was 17 when Pep gave him his debut. Rico Lewis at 18 years old would not get a look in here. That is my opinion.

Sorry but I hate this argument. Using player such and such as an example as a reason to throw a youngster in.

Firstly Rico Lewis is an exceptional talent and has stood out whenever he has played at youth level (international and club).

Secondly Rico Lewis is not competing in the same game. He is competing with City youngsters, where even players llike Porro or Lavia (example) get moved on as they can't break through. If Pep thinks they can make it, I think it's pretty certain they're the best of the best.

One thing the "play the youngsters" side conveniently forget is how far we are behind the city's of this world. Our best youngsters are NOWHERE near city's talent pool. Devine struggling at Port Vale, Scarlett returned from not getting enough games and Phillips playing half a dozen championship games.

These are supposedly our best youngsters, yet clearly they are not near the best youngsters at a city.

I would agree with your point when we had Marcus Edwards for example who was at the level.

Nowadays the truth is we don't have the talent pool that City have at youth level. It's a ridiculous comparison (Lewis to Phillips) not just in position, but also talent and experience.

The difference playing an 17 year old full back with a settled team around him (or even in midfield) to throwing in an 18 year old centre back in a makeshift team is just ridiculous.

Ashley Phillips has played 14 games for the England under 19 team. He is behind a lot of quality players before we even get to the under 21s.

Tell me the last time a top 4 team has played an 18 year old centre back, or name one 18 year old centre back playing in the pl now?

 

[Locotoro]

Sorry but I hate this argument. Using player such and such as an example as a reason to throw a youngster in.

Firstly Rico Lewis is an exceptional talent and has stood out whenever he has played at youth level (international and club).

Secondly Rico Lewis is not competing in the same game. He is competing with City youngsters, where even players llike Porro or Lavia (example) get moved on as they can't break through. If Pep thinks they can make it, I think it's pretty certain they're the best of the best.

One thing the "play the youngsters" side conveniently forget is how far we are behind the city's of this world. Our best youngsters are NOWHERE near city's talent pool. Devine struggling at Port Vale, Scarlett returned from not getting enough games and Phillips playing half a dozen championship games.

These are supposedly our best youngsters, yet clearly they are not near the best youngsters at a city.

I would agree with your point when we had Marcus Edwards for example who was at the level.

Nowadays the truth is we don't have the talent pool that City have at youth level. It's a ridiculous comparison (Lewis to Phillips) not just in position, but also talent and experience.

The difference playing an 17 year old full back with a settled team around him (or even in midfield) to throwing in an 18 year old centre back in a makeshift team is just ridiculous.

Ashley Phillips has played 14 games for the England under 19 team. He is behind a lot of quality players before we even get to the under 21s.

Tell me the last time a top 4 team has played an 18 year old centre back, or name one 18 year old centre back playing in the pl now?

You make some good points especially your last one about any other 18 year old CB in the league - but you can bet someone will find one that you've not thought of lol.

I think those who want to see youth get a chance want to see just that - a plan for the academy players. I think it would be greatly beneficial to those players and the fan expectations if those responsible for youth development were able to come out and outline what they saw as appropriate youth development and pathway.

The most informative things I've seen on club direction have been from ITKs and specifically a guy on YouTube called Coach Stel (who as I understand doesn't have any affiliations with the club) but attends youth development meetings at the club. One of his videos from earlier in the summer, preceding the rise of all our youth sides, set out that the club is moving away from creating all round footballers (Abbot, Skipp, Craig, Winks) that can play in any system and can be adapted to any manager or sold to any club and instead more towards footballers that can play the "Spurs" way and be more easily drafted to our first team.

The other thing that has changed is that there is a focus on winning now rather than just development. I don't know if I'm putting 2 and 2 together but it may be a factor in the recent form of our sides. Having said that true success is moving players from the academy to the starting line up and that is what is currently missing