New Stadium Details And Discussions

[ginola99]

We have future-proofed.

The middle tier of the north stand can be converted to corperate, thus increase revenues without having to increase capacity.

 

[spursfan77]

Whilst we are chatting about seats I'm assuming we will have more leg room and space either side of us than at present. I'm sure I once read that we had to for health & safety reason. That will be good if nothing else.

 

[Lilbaz]

I think there was an area which is earmarked for safe standing. With regard to seating type to be used and possibility of changing, I don't know. Sounds like a good plan, but at the same time, that would compromise the increased amount of space each spectator is supposed to be getting in the new stadium. I guess when safe standing comes along those considerations will be less, but only in those areas designated for standing.

At this stage we are getting down to whether it's ok to compromise the spectator experience in order to squeeze more in. No doubt one day that may become a possibility.

Sorry not talking about standing. Talking about moving seats closer together.
6 seats with say 3 inches gap either side can be moved on the rail so there is only 1 inch gap. This means an extra seat can be added.

 

[camaj]

Just had a look at stadiumTV and noticed they build a new ramp it seems, from the street to basement level. There was a slope there before but this looks a bit more permanent. I also noticed two walls on the west side of the site that I hadn't noticed before, presumably to hold some of the material in that part of the site. Seems to me more sand too.

 

[Nigel Spinal]

Whilst we are chatting about seats I'm assuming we will have more leg room and space either side of us than at present. I'm sure I once read that we had to for health & safety reason. That will be good if nothing else.

WHL isn't bad for that compared to a lot of grounds around.

I was at Bramall Lane for the LC semi last season, and physically couldn't sit down (I'm only 6'1").

I was at Elland Road for the rugby WC the other day and found the same thing

 

[Lilbaz]

WHL isn't bad for that compared to a lot of grounds around.

I was at Bramall Lane for the LC semi last season, and physically couldn't sit down (I'm only 6'1").

I was at Elland Road for the rugby WC the other day and found the same thing

Piles?

 

[Phischy]

Not sure what you mean by 'future proofing' - if you mean getting a bigger a bigger capacity :

1. The bowl design (which almost all modern stadiums use) is pretty much impossible to expand, so unless we've designed it to add a few extra rows of seats at the top (unlikely) we will only be able to tweak the seats around to slightly increase capacity. The height approved for the stadium was as much as the planners would tolerate - and maybe why we are building a large basement now. The old style 'half barn' stands in older designed stadiums were by contrast (ironically) very easy to expand

Of course going into safe standing increases capacity - but I guess people will expect smaller ticket prices so whilst there is a bigger crown for each game there may not be much extra money going to club to fund the changes, But I'm sure they'll do it if legislation is changed

2. Transport links has been a huge constraint even getting to the original stadium approval in 2010 - all the signs are that even with more recent improvements being put in place (Moselle Square acting as a safe and speedy way to exit the stadium, improvements to rail services etc) its still a constraint on any form of expansion.

Exactly! With bowls you can add tiers backwards if there is room, which we don't have (and if it's been considered in the design initially) and Transport links will be an issue for the foreseeable.

I think we all agree that in this context future-proofing equates to capacity expansion if it is ever considered necessary.

 

[Lilbaz]

Exactly! With bowls you can add tiers backwards if there is room, which we don't have (and if it's been considered in the design initially) and Transport links will be an issue for the foreseeable.

I think we all agree that in this context future-proofing equates to capacity expansion if it is ever considered necessary.

We wont need to for a good while (10-20 years).

The stadium looks fantastic. Really think it will be the best club ground in europe.

 

[Spursidol]

Exactly! With bowls you can add tiers backwards if there is room, which we don't have (and if it's been considered in the design initially) and Transport links will be an issue for the foreseeable.

I think we all agree that in this context future-proofing equates to capacity expansion if it is ever considered necessary.

So with capacity expansion :

1. The plot size means that we are very restricted on the size of the stadium - so this is pretty much maxed out in the design with a fairly steep rake to the seats - and a height limitation imposed by Planning - so any capacity expansion is likely to be limited and built into the design.

2. Transport links really cap off the number of spectators who can safely be transported too and from the ground - WHL has always been poor in this respect but the Moselle Way to a revamped station and more longer trains on the lines have made significant improvements - and although Harringey have put a Victioria line extension line to Northumbertland Park onto a wish list for the future, Network Rail has been adamant for years that the Northumberland Park extension will not be built as the space is intended for other purposes, so that seems unlikely certainly in the short term, and probably in the long term too. So until CrossRail 2 is built with a station at Northumberland Park (at best a decade away), the constraint of transporting fans away from WHL (or whatever its called) is unlikely to go away.

So I suspect DL has pushed the boundaries of seated capacity as far as it can be in the initial design. Sure there maybe a little wriggle room to increase the number of seats, but 10% increase (my guess) would probably be more than can be achieved.

So if safe standing becomes legal, then that's probably the only real way to increase the number of spectators in the stadium - provided the transport constraint doesn't kick in.

 

[Lilbaz]

So with capacity expansion :

1. The plot size means that we are very restricted on the size of the stadium - so this is pretty much maxed out in the design with a fairly steep rake to the seats - and a height limitation imposed by Planning - so any capacity expansion is likely to be limited and built into the design.

2. Transport links really cap off the number of spectators who can safely be transported too and from the ground - WHL has always been poor in this respect but the Moselle Way to a revamped station and more longer trains on the lines have made significant improvements - and although Harringey have put a Victioria line extension line to Northumbertland Park onto a wish list for the future, Network Rail has been adamant for years that the Northumberland Park extension will not be built as the space is intended for other purposes, so that seems unlikely certainly in the short term, and probably in the long term too. So until CrossRail 2 is built with a station at Northumberland Park (at best a decade away), the constraint of transporting fans away from WHL (or whatever its called) is unlikely to go away.

So I suspect DL has pushed the boundaries of seated capacity as far as it can be in the initial design. Sure there maybe a little wriggle room to increase the number of seats, but 10% increase (my guess) would probably be more than can be achieved.

So if safe standing becomes legal, then that's probably the only real way to increase the number of spectators in the stadium - provided the transport constraint doesn't kick in.

Agree. Hopefully better facilities in the new stadium and the tottenham walk will mean that people would want to stay in the stadium/area longer. This will help with transport.

 

[Spursidol]

Agree. Hopefully better facilities in the new stadium and the tottenham walk will mean that people would want to stay in the stadium/area longer. This will help with transport.

yup, I'm pretty sure Harringey will ensure that Moselle Way will have a few bars/cafes/restaurants/fast food outlets there so as to stagger (with or without too many beers) people's transport home, and indeed on the way in - and likewise DL will be pleased if fans stay longer in the stadium bars/food outlets before and after the matches. Equally I imagine that other facilities (eg climbing wall) are hoped to be used on match days to stagger journey times.

 

[Lilbaz]

yup, I'm pretty sure Harringey will ensure that Moselle Way will have a few bars/cafes/restaurants/fast food outlets there so as to stagger (with or without too many beers) people's transport home, and indeed on the way in - and likewise DL will be pleased if fans stay longer in the stadium bars/food outlets before and after the matches. Equally I imagine that other facilities (eg climbing wall) are hoped to be used on match days to stagger journey times.

Can just imagine half our lot trying to climb a 50ft wall after beating arsenal.

 

[Breezer]

We wont need to for a good while (10-20 years).

The stadium looks fantastic. Really think it will be the best club ground in europe.

Not sure about best! But definitely one of the best. Having been to the Alianz arena for the Audi Cup I would be amazed if our stadium is even half has good.

 

[Lilbaz]

Not sure about best! But definitely one of the best. Having been to the Alianz arena for the Audi Cup I would be amazed if our stadium is even half has good.

Why don't you think it can be as good?

 

[yiddopaul]

Why don't you think it can be as good?

Yeah, until the thing's actually been built, we won't know. Looking at the images, it looks impressive. Seeing it for real could either be "wow, that's amazing" or "hm, looked better on paper"

 

[beats1]

Yeah, until the thing's actually been built, we won't know. Looking at the images, it looks impressive. Seeing it for real could either be "wow, that's amazing" or "hm, looked better on paper"

Having seen a lot of engineering plans, as a sporting arena and a place to go, it is an amazing stadium. Aesthetically it is alright not the best. As a football stadium its good but not great.

Overall, its better than the previous design but depending on what type of person you are either like the new interior or miss elements of the old stadium like closeness of the pitch, steepness and intimidating nature of the design

 

[philip]

The only way we could realistically have made the stadium better in the area allowed and with the same amount of seats and corporates is by making the rake steeper. However to do this we would have had to dig down at least another 5-10 metres or possibly not had the basement which we need, as there's no way we would have been allowed to go higher.

 

[beats1]

The only way we could realistically have made the stadium better in the area allowed and with the same amount of seats and corporates is by making the rake steeper. However to do this we would have had to dig down at least another 5-10 metres or possibly not had the basement which we need, as there's no way we would have been allowed to go higher.

Not necessarily we can go up unlike Arsenal we don't have any height constraints iirc

As for the rake, that is limited partially by the sliding pitch on the kop end.

Getting the pitch closer, well that is partially down to the sliding pitch, otherwise we would go 5m all the way round imo.

In terms of our site, it is much better than the emirates and OS which have to contend with the water table so they can't go down.

 

[Breezer]

Why don't you think it can be as good?

Maybe it can. I was just in awe at the Alianz arena. If our club can build anything similar id be amazed and might even start a campaign to build a statue of Levy.

 

[Lilbaz]

Maybe it can. I was just in awe at the Alianz arena. If our club can build anything similar id be amazed and might even start a campaign to build a statue of Levy.

Matching the atmosphere will be down to the fans. But as far as facilities go i think it will match the Alianz.
Some of the munich fans are actually not too pleased with the alianz and call it Aroganz Arena (arrogance arena).