New Stadium Details And Discussions

[Jenko]

Which lot you talking about?

Barnsley fans at Oakwell?
Or those from the Bill Shankley Kop?
(that would be the Preston North End fans)
Or perhaps the Notts County fans?
etc
etc
etc...

Wow, I never knew there were so many. It's the noisy ones get all the attention, you know, the team with the 'divine' right.

I didn't understand the original question about a 'Kop' stand in our plans though. Anyone?

edit - Ah, grasshopper see now.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spion_Kop_(stadiums)

 

[Dinghy]

Wow, I never knew there were so many. It's the noisy ones get all the attention, you know, the team with the 'divine' right.

I didn't understand the original question about a 'Kop' stand in our plans though. Anyone?

edit - Ah, grasshopper see now.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spion_Kop_(stadiums)

Sorry just pisses me off that people think that the Red Scousers are the only ones to have a Kop and seem to have a divine right to it (as you say) Same goes for You'll Never Walk Alone is not (or was not at least) only a Liverpool song...

Complain if you will that the Scum had the first 'Kop' and that we may be copying them perhaps... But I think that there are enough Kop stands around that the word doesn't imply copying anyone at all...

 

[worcestersauce]

Sorry just pisses me off that people think that the Red Scousers are the only ones to have a Kop and seem to have a divine right to it (as you say) Same goes for You'll Never Walk Alone is not (or was not at least) only a Liverpool song...

Complain if you will that the Scum had the first 'Kop' and that we may be copying them perhaps... But I think that there are enough Kop stands around that the word doesn't imply copying anyone at all...

Originally a Celtic song.
The kop comes from Spion Kop in South Africa at the time of the Boer war so perhaps a more recent name would be preferable if you wish.

 

[225]

Scary seeing just how far behind we are in terms of match day income.

This article wasn't really out to suggest it, but if true it really highlights just how far we are outside of the 'top 5' in terms of self-sustained spending power:

"Man Utd generate £109m a season from matchday income, Arsenal £93m, Chelsea £71m, Liverpool £45m, Man City £40m, Tottenham £33m"

There's a lot more to it, but £76m a season behind United with match days alone. It's no wonder they can pay £30m for a perm-headed thug and not get in a sweat about it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...mier-League-supporters-Wayne-Rooney-less.html

 

[makeveli]

High road west approved, it's starting to take shape

http://m.haringeyindependent.co.uk/news/11673575._/

 

[GobbyJJ]

This SURELY means the whole stadium thing is going ahead?

 

[davidmatzdorf]

This SURELY means the whole stadium thing is going ahead?

The only reason people reckon it isn't 'going ahead' is because fans with cynical attitudes and no actual information keep restating, every week, that it will never happen and other people act as if these 'opinions' have actual content, which they don't. It's just another internet factoid: people keep restating their 'opinion' without providing any evidence or reasoning and then everyone else starts to accept that it's so because they've read it so many times.

All I know is that Haringey Council planning department think it's going ahead, because I've had meetings there recently and I went fishing in conversation with the planning officers as the meetings broke up. They are basing their decisions on other development proposals in Tottenham, including the one that was the reason for my meetings, on the assumption that the entire regeneration programme is going ahead, including the stadium. It is informing their implementation of planning policy, in general and in detail.

The silence from the club, which I think is understandable and wise in the circumstances, nevertheless feeds into the general state of uninformed cynicism, but if I were the club's PR department, I wouldn't want to be making bold statements when there are so many issues unresolved or subject to legal action.

It's a bit like the difference between faith and science. People keep demanding certainty and there isn't any. In the absence of certainty, people conclude the worst and then cling to their positions like driftwood in a stormy sea, but (as the saying goes), 'the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence'. Anyway, there is evidence: there is a building contract for the substructure and the main structure, but there is a break clause in it, in case the CPO appeal succeeds. There is plainly some of the funding in place (that building contract is for about £50m), but just as plainly some has yet to be arranged and the naming rights deal has not been settled. And, of course, there's the pending CPO appeal.

As of now, the stadium development is, literally, physically, 'going ahead': Phase 1 is completed and works are underway for Phase 2. That doesn't guarantee that it will be completed at all, nor that it will be completed 'on time', whatever the hell that means. Development doesn't work like that - there are risks that need to be managed all the way through the process. But I read all manner of paranoid, irresponsible bullshit here about how it 'will never happen' and how ENIC are 'pretending to build a stadium'. If so, they seem to have fooled Haringey Council, the Mayor's Office and a number of building contractors.

 

[GobbyJJ]

I bow to your greater knowledge in these areas DM and you have confirmed what I believed.

Surely there is too much investment from various sources for this not to occur? Yet there are still those who believe it is an utter fabrication on behalf of Levy and his cronies. Madness or perhaps ulterior motive?

 

[Lilbaz]

I bow to your greater knowledge in these areas DM and you have confirmed what I believed.

Surely there is too much investment from various sources for this not to occur? Yet there are still those who believe it is an utter fabrication on behalf of Levy and his cronies. Madness or perhaps ulterior motive?

Ignorance.

 

[SpurSince57]

Ignorance.

And stupidity.

 

[Spursidol]

High road west approved, it's starting to take shape

http://m.haringeyindependent.co.uk/news/11673575._/

...and just as interesting, Harringay are having to issue CPO's to some businesses to make it happen.

So Harringay's redevelopment of the area (approved by a big majority of local residents) can only take place if the CPO's are approved and will not be overturned by courts.

 

[Spursidol]

http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/ne...trong-support-for-north-tottenhams-future.htm

Harringay's announcement of councillors agreement on the High Road West redevelopment

 

[Blackrat1299]

edmonton on the 18/19 opening: Complicated but there is a chance of 17/18. Depends on many things some outside control of club like when in 2017 they close whl station to rebuild it

on new station: New station, platform moving south accessed where arches are at the moment. Will make a major difference. Club not involved at all.
Short term Boris takes over the line next April which will bring in more trains.

on playing away for a year: Still MK from what I hear but I won't be attending.

When we win League Cup why not claim squatters rights on Wembley?

 

[worcestersauce]

...and just as interesting, Harringay are having to issue CPO's to some businesses to make it happen.

So Harringay's redevelopment of the area (approved by a big majority of local residents) can only take place if the CPO's are approved and will not be overturned by courts.

No problem, forgone conclusion.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

...and just as interesting, Harringay are having to issue CPO's to some businesses to make it happen.

So Harringay's redevelopment of the area (approved by a big majority of local residents) can only take place if the CPO's are approved and will not be overturned by courts.

The appeal by ASM is apparently based on their contention that the wider regeneration can viably be carried out without building a new football stadium - that the aim of achieving the regeneration, which is the 'greater public good' that is the basis for the ASM CPO, can be accomplished without the stadium and therefore without their land.

So it is plausible, or at least conceivable, that the CPOs for High Rd West could be upheld and the CPO for the NDP could be struck down. Unlikely, but not inconsistent.

 

[Spurger King]

No problem, forgone conclusion.

 

[Mister Jez]

David, as always your views are very much appreciated by the vast majority on here. In your considered opinion, how long after the appeal hearing do you think we will have to wait for the outcome?. Could it be reasonably quick, or is it liable to drag on for months.?

The appeal by ASM is apparently based on their contention that the wider regeneration can viably be carried out without building a new football stadium - that the aim of achieving the regeneration, which is the 'greater public good' that is the basis for the ASM CPO, can be accomplished without the stadium and therefore without their land.

So it is plausible, or at least conceivable, that the CPOs for High Rd West could be upheld and the CPO for the NDP could be struck down. Unlikely, but not inconsistent.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

...how long after the appeal hearing do you think we will have to wait for the outcome?. Could it be reasonably quick, or is it liable to drag on for months.?

I don't know - it's been years since I did a project that included a CPO and I think the system has changed at least twice since then. I recall that there are some tentative answers to this from others earlier in the thread - have a crack at the search function. I wouldn't expect it to be months - more like weeks.

 

[Spursidol]

David, as always your views are very much appreciated by the vast majority on here. In your considered opinion, how long after the appeal hearing do you think we will have to wait for the outcome?. Could it be reasonably quick, or is it liable to drag on for months.?

I don't know - it's been years since I did a project that included a CPO and I think the system has changed at least twice since then. I recall that there are some tentative answers to this from others earlier in the thread - have a crack at the search function. I wouldn't expect it to be months - more like weeks.

I cannot pretend to match David's knowledge of the subject but I understand that after the next hearing in January, if we are successful, that Spurs will be entitled to seek posession and do whatever we wish to do - and if Archway succeed at any further appeal (eg European courts) that their award can only be monetary compensation, presumeably limited to land value, costs of moving and legal costs etc.

Maybe all will be confirmed after the hearing in January - but it might take a month or two for the judgement to become available

 

[davidmatzdorf]

...I understand that after the next hearing in January, if we are successful, that Spurs will be entitled to seek possession and do whatever we wish to do - and if Archway succeed at any further appeal (eg European courts) that their award can only be monetary compensation, presumeably limited to land value, costs of moving and legal costs etc.

Maybe all will be confirmed after the hearing in January - but it might take a month or two for the judgement to become available

Thanks. It will be Haringey seeking possession and then transferring the land to THFC, because they and ASM are the parties to the CPO, not the club.

What I don't know is the time-scale post-hearing.