New Stadium Details And Discussions

[Lilbaz]

when i was 16 i was having a cheeky bet early one saturday in jennings, enfield town. Quinny walked in and he lent over me while i was doing my footy coupon. He said "top match will be an away win" - it was Arsenal v Aston Villa and i later found out he had been dropped for the game, lol.

My mate scored a hattrick for his sunday league team. Quinn rubbed his head and said give me some of that luck. My mate was well chuffed gooner shit that he is.

 

[beats1]

According to this, Arsenal have the highest priced season tickets from lowest to highest.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...cheapest-and-arsenal-most-costly-9621737.html
You're spot on though corporate revenue is key these days.

Arsenal's season tickets include 7 cup games which last season included 4 CL games against Dortmund, Marseille, Fenerbahce and Napoli as well as games against Us, Chelsea and Coventry.

We give two cup games as well but those were cheap games like Tromso and Dinamo Tblisi

 

[Mister Jez]

Thought this may be of some interest, posted today on Skyscrapercity. From jaysea67 on glory-glory:

Quote:
This is a few days old. I haven't seen it, but apologies if already posted.

As part of the stadium plan the club had to submit a planning application for the demolition of Fletcher House which is a listed building. Permission was granted subject to a number of conditions, one of the conditions being that demolition could not start before "contract(s) for the carrying out of the works of redevelopment of the stadium ... have been made and evidence of such contract(s) has been submitted to and accepted by the Council". ie. before the listed building is demolished the council want to be sure that the new stadium will be built.

The club has made an application, which has been agreed by Haringey council, that this condition has been satisfied. In the covering letter for that application, dated 18 September, the club's representative says "THFC have today entered into a Joint Contracts Tribunal (JCT) Design and Build 2011 Contract for the civil engineering ground works, concrete piled foundations and structure for the new THFC Stadium Project. The contract has been made with M Anderson Construction Ltd whose registered office is Springfield Lodge Colchester Road Chelmsford CM2 5PW. The contract sum for the works is £49,773,727. Anderson Construction Ltd were the civil and structural contractor for the recently completed THFC Training Centre in Enfield."

Clearly this is not a contract for the full stadium project but Haringey are satisfied that this and other factors mean that the stadium redevelopment is likely to take place.

One part of interest in the planning officer's report states that "the contract provides for the division of the works into sections. These are (i) the construction of new stadium north of Paxton Road to be completed by 23rd December 2015 and (ii) the demolition of existing stadium and construction of the remainder of the new stadium to be completed by 31st October 2016."

It may also be worth noting that the contract apparently includes the drawings relating to the KSS design and, the planning officer says, "are considered to describe the stadium development approved on 20th September 2011."

The application (ref. HGY/2014/2591) for discharge of the condition relating to Fletcher House is here:http://www.planningservices.haringey...et?PKID=276572

 

[ginola99]

Surely that's old, don't want to discredit what he's saying but I can't see how that's possible, even if it was dated 18th of this month. Can the club really do that first stage in just one year?

 

[Spursidol]

I know this thread is about going around in circles but some people are saying we wont match arsenal's match day revenue when our stadium is opened and Im struggling to see why? If not surpass.

The thing is, american stadiums are a great example of why we should be looking to get this right once and they are also showing us why a new stadium build with a similar capacity is absolute necessary, because of hospitality seating. The cowboys make an insane amount of money from their seating.

Arsenal generate £93m from the Emirates, of that they make around £35m just from their 7k club seats and 2k box seats. With the rest of income coming from 35k season tickets and general ticket sales.

I was wondering how many corporate seats atm we have and it is worth noting effectively we have the highest season ticket price.

Not sure there is anything in the public domain about the number of corporate seats at the Emirates - but I'm sure Spurs will have the info, even if on a match day someone from Spurs went round counting & making the estimates. Ditto to a few other grounds.

At the end of the day, Spurs will have made a punt of the number of corporate seats to have in the new stadium based upon all the available information on the number of corporates seats they may be able to sell. The cost of putting inn a few extra corporate seats is not that much so provided they are all filled a reasonable number of times a year, they will be profitable.

I suspect the real trick is never to let on how full they are and always to market them on the slogan 'only a couple left' so that they are generally filled as well as selling boxes to corporates a season at a time etc.

My personal guess is that we will have 2 or 3 or more times that which we have now - so on day 1 we may not sell out, but I'm sure that provided we provide decent entertainment in PL, europe and the cups we will get the corporate seats pretty full and get matchday revenues of a similar size to Arsenal (say 15% more or less than them).

In a sense its irrelevant if we have similar matchday revenues as Arsenal (providing we are within say 15%) of Arsenal - its really a question of what we do with the revenues. As an example ManU have for decades had much more matchday revenues than us, but had a wobble and we finished above them last season.

 

[beats1]

Not sure there is anything in the public domain about the number of corporate seats at the Emirates - but I'm sure Spurs will have the info, even if on a match day someone from Spurs went round counting & making the estimates. Ditto to a few other grounds.

At the end of the day, Spurs will have made a punt of the number of corporate seats to have in the new stadium based upon all the available information on the number of corporates seats they may be able to sell. The cost of putting inn a few extra corporate seats is not that much so provided they are all filled a reasonable number of times a year, they will be profitable.

I suspect the real trick is never to let on how full they are and always to market them on the slogan 'only a couple left' so that they are generally filled as well as selling boxes to corporates a season at a time etc.

My personal guess is that we will have 2 or 3 or more times that which we have now - so on day 1 we may not sell out, but I'm sure that provided we provide decent entertainment in PL, europe and the cups we will get the corporate seats pretty full and get matchday revenues of a similar size to Arsenal (say 15% more or less than them).

In a sense its irrelevant if we have similar matchday revenues as Arsenal (providing we are within say 15%) of Arsenal - its really a question of what we do with the revenues. As an example ManU have for decades had much more matchday revenues than us, but had a wobble and we finished above them last season.

Apparently arsenal have these amount of seats;
Lower tier: 24,425 seats
Club Level tier: 7,139 seats
Box Level tier: 2,222 seats
Upper tier: 26,646 seats

Most stadiums(via blueprints) do list the amount of executive boxes they have like west ham have around 15 at the OS to Arsenal's 150 boxes.

A london team could sell alot more than 150 boxes. Dallas for example sell 200 and their prices for a season is between $100k to $500k. Worth noting that London is the richest city with top football league playing there in the world. I don't think we exploit the PL as much as we can.

I agree with your point about revenue but it does increase our chances of finishing higher and competing with the big boys. I also agree with idea of us spending that money wisely would of made us better(i.e. trusting the youth team for squad players rather than buying squad players)

 

[Spursidol]

Thought this may be of some interest, posted today on Skyscrapercity. From jaysea67 on glory-glory:

Quote:
This is a few days old. I haven't seen it, but apologies if already posted.

As part of the stadium plan the club had to submit a planning application for the demolition of Fletcher House which is a listed building. Permission was granted subject to a number of conditions, one of the conditions being that demolition could not start before "contract(s) for the carrying out of the works of redevelopment of the stadium ... have been made and evidence of such contract(s) has been submitted to and accepted by the Council". ie. before the listed building is demolished the council want to be sure that the new stadium will be built.

The club has made an application, which has been agreed by Haringey council, that this condition has been satisfied. In the covering letter for that application, dated 18 September, the club's representative says "THFC have today entered into a Joint Contracts Tribunal (JCT) Design and Build 2011 Contract for the civil engineering ground works, concrete piled foundations and structure for the new THFC Stadium Project. The contract has been made with M Anderson Construction Ltd whose registered office is Springfield Lodge Colchester Road Chelmsford CM2 5PW. The contract sum for the works is £49,773,727. Anderson Construction Ltd were the civil and structural contractor for the recently completed THFC Training Centre in Enfield."

Clearly this is not a contract for the full stadium project but Haringey are satisfied that this and other factors mean that the stadium redevelopment is likely to take place.

One part of interest in the planning officer's report states that "the contract provides for the division of the works into sections. These are (i) the construction of new stadium north of Paxton Road to be completed by 23rd December 2015 and (ii) the demolition of existing stadium and construction of the remainder of the new stadium to be completed by 31st October 2016."

It may also be worth noting that the contract apparently includes the drawings relating to the KSS design and, the planning officer says, "are considered to describe the stadium development approved on 20th September 2011."

The application (ref. HGY/2014/2591) for discharge of the condition relating to Fletcher House is here:http://www.planningservices.haringey...et?PKID=276572

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=276572

Correct. Harringay Council have accepted that Spurs signing a contract for circa £50m for civil engineering works fulfills the condition laid down to demolish Fletcher House - the documentation includes the rationale for the council accepting this being that there is the Archway CPO appeal which is being contested by HMG, Council and Spurs.

The £50m contract is clearly only one of the contracts which will be signed to build the stadium, but the objective is clearly to keep momentumn on the stadium, one of the next steps being the demolition of Fletcher House, so the council take the view that Spurs have done enough to demonstrate that they are going ahead and the council are understanding the constraints Spurs are operating under by accepting that the condition has been met.

 

[Spursidol]

Apparently arsenal have these amount of seats;
Lower tier: 24,425 seats
Club Level tier: 7,139 seats
Box Level tier: 2,222 seats
Upper tier: 26,646 seats

Most stadiums(via blueprints) do list the amount of executive boxes they have like west ham have around 15 at the OS to Arsenal's 150 boxes.

A london team could sell alot more than 150 boxes. Dallas for example sell 200 and their prices for a season is between $100k to $500k. Worth noting that London is the richest city with top football league playing there in the world. I don't think we exploit the PL as much as we can.

I agree with your point about revenue but it does increase our chances of finishing higher and competing with the big boys. I also agree with idea of us spending that money wisely would of made us better(i.e. trusting the youth team for squad players rather than buying squad players)

Interesting - am I right in thinking that the no of boxes and seat detail will only appear once the internal fit out plans have been published - and that those have not been at the moment, or did the KSS plans have that detail ?

I agree with you though - we may well be able to sell say 200 boxes and depending on pricing either match or exceed Arsenal#s revenue

 

[worcestersauce]

Arsenal's season tickets include 7 cup games which last season included 4 CL games against Dortmund, Marseille, Fenerbahce and Napoli as well as games against Us, Chelsea and Coventry.

We give two cup games as well but those were cheap games like Tromso and Dinamo Tblisi

But those games could have been two games against Besitkas, Southampton, in the league cup, three europa group games and the third round FA cup game that they had no choice but to pay for.

 

[beats1]

Interesting - am I right in thinking that the no of boxes and seat detail will only appear once the internal fit out plans have been published - and that those have not been at the moment, or did the KSS plans have that detail ?

I agree with you though - we may well be able to sell say 200 boxes and depending on pricing either match or exceed Arsenal#s revenue

I can check for you, but they did list the no. of boxes

 

[beats1]

But those games could have been two games against Besitkas, Southampton, in the league cup, three europa group games and the third round FA cup game that they had no choice but to pay for.

True but on a per game basis theirs is cheaper(for the most expensive ticket) and the same for the cheapest ticket though I think our cheapest ticket is a restricted view ticket

 

[Spursidol]

I can check for you, but they did list the no. of boxes

Interesting if there is that kind of info available - even if we know it may still change before the stadium is actually completed

 

[Spursidol]

I can check for you, but they did list the no. of boxes

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=262157

Pages 123 and 124. quotes
'A total of 115 hospitality boxes giving 1,074 box seats are provided in
the West, East and North stands at Level 4'

'Level 3 Club Level accommodates a range of high quality flexible
hospitality restaurants and bars for a total of 5,693 executives and
club members.'

A suite for directors and their guests is located in the centre of the
West stand,.................. Directors suite and provide lounge
bars and a match day silver service for up to 530 members

A 4 star hospitality suite and three pitch side box lounges are located
in the centre of the East stand,..................... incorporating lounge bars
and providing match day buffet dining offer for up to 450 members

Large double height Club bars are located in each of the four corners
accommodating up to 3,913 club members

On the face of it we've only got 115 boxes ! But a revised design might increase that

 

[beats1]

Interesting if there is that kind of info available - even if we know it may still change before the stadium is actually completed

We have 115 boxes but part of the box tier isn't converted to boxes and is actually converted to one huge suite called the platinum suite which seats 120. I think 200 is too many for stadium that has a capacity of 56k but there should be room for expansion imo

However that level has seating for:
8 seat boxes: 52
10 seat boxes: 56
14 seat boxes: 7
120 seat Platinum suite: 1

There is a hospitality suite at this level behind the kop as well. If we did have boxes all the way round there would be another 4 x 14 seat boxes and 14 x 10 seat boxes making 133 plus the 10 missing in the platinum suite would make a total of 143 had we gone for total box suite

 

[Spursidol]

We have 115 boxes but part of the box tier isn't converted to boxes and is actually converted to one huge suite called the platinum suite which seats 120. I think 200 is too many for stadium that has a capacity of 56k but should be room for expansion imo

However that level has seating for:
8 seat boxes: 52
10 seat boxes: 56
14 seat boxes: 7
120 seat Platinum suite: 1

There is a hospitality suite at this level behind the kop as well. If we did all the way round there would be another 4 x 14 seat boxes and 14 x 10 seat boxes making 133 plus the 10 missing in the platinum suite would make a total of 143 had we gone for total box suite

As boxes can be of different sizes I think rather than number of boxes its a better comparison to look at 'the total number of seats in boxes' and 'Club Level seats'

Is Arsenal 'Box Level tier: 2,222 seats' and 'Club Level tier: 7,139 seats' so toal 9,361

and is Spurs 'box 1,074' and club level circa 10,600 seats

So depending on pricing, we may have more or less revenue than Arsenal. But we may also be able to reconfigure to have more box seats - if we think we can sell them !

 

[beats1]

As boxes can be of different sizes I think rather than number of boxes its a better comparison to look at 'the total number of seats in boxes' and 'Club Level seats'

Is Arsenal 'Box Level tier: 2,222 seats' and 'Club Level tier: 7,139 seats' so toal 9,361

and is Spurs 'box 1,074' and club level circa 10,600 seats

So depending on pricing, we may have more or less revenue than Arsenal. But we may also be able to reconfigure to have more box seats - if we think we can sell them !

If wiki is right? I haven't got the emirates stadium drawings then arsenal have 9,361. Whereas we according to page 117 of the planning document have this:
Club level tier: 5,693 seats
Box Level tier: 1,194 seats

Lower tier: 20,972 seats
Upper tier: 28,391 seats

Now compare that to the original post with the emirates capacity
Lower tier: 24,425 seats
Club Level tier: 7,139 seats
Box Level tier: 2,222 seats
Upper tier: 26,646 seats

Its clear to see that the kop stand has hurt the hospitality seating but also the lower tier has alot less seats but worth noting that the NEW WHL stands are closer to the pitch so less boxes and seats

 

[Spursidol]

If wiki is right? I haven't got the emirates stadium drawings then arsenal have 9,361. Whereas we according to page 117 of the planning document have this:
Club level tier: 5,693 seats
Box Level tier: 1,194 seats

Lower tier: 20,972 seats
Upper tier: 28,391 seats

Now compare that to the original post with the emirates capacity
Lower tier: 24,425 seats
Club Level tier: 7,139 seats
Box Level tier: 2,222 seats
Upper tier: 26,646 seats

Its clear to see that the kop stand has hurt the hospitality seating but also the lower tier has alot less seats but worth noting that the NEW WHL stands are closer to the pitch so less boxes and seats

I've not used Wiki for Spurs - just the planning documents (see about 4 posts above)

But I'm not sure if I'm including bar/lounge areas with no match view !

But our 56,250 capacity looks as if we need an internal redesign to increase the box seats and club seats whilst retaining the kop ! Perhapsthat is Populas (sp new architects) brief ?!

 

[beats1]

I've not used Wiki for Spurs - just the planning documents (see about 4 posts above)

But I'm not sure if I'm including bar/lounge areas with no match view !

But our 56,250 capacity looks as if we need an internal redesign to increase the box seats and club seats whilst retaining the kop ! Perhapsthat is Populas (sp new architects) brief ?!

The spurs seats numbers were taken from the planning document page 117, I think you have included the bar capacity and hospitality seats

 

[Spursidol]

The spurs seats numbers were taken from the planning document page 117, I think you have included the bar capacity and hospitality seats

But going back to your original question, we do sem to have less corporate/premium seats than Arsenal. Redesign required !

 

[Lilbaz]

But going back to your original question, we do sem to have less corporate/premium seats than Arsenal. Redesign required !

Populous have done a redesign of the internals so this may already have changed.