Midfield - What is the right mix?

[Duck]

Solid win against West Brom, but if I had to pick a problem that stood out, it was that we struggled a bit through the middle, particularly when it came to trying to win the ball back. West Brom had multiple 5+ minute spells with 70% possession, which our defence thankfully stood up to strongly, but I still wonder what the right combination for the midfield is going forward.

Obviously Hojbjerg is a lock-in starter playing a deeper, anchoring role. He's playing a similar role to Dier and Dembele over the years, but is much more efficient with his distribution by foot.

After that?

Tanguy Ndombele - A high quality talent, but not 100% there yet. We know just how effective powerful, but technical midfielders can be in the EPL with the likes of Yaya Toure, Mousa Dembele, Michael Essien in the past, so I'm sure many here would definitely want to persist with him. That being said, can he be trusted to play a deeper role alongside Hojbjerg? Or will he always be competing for the more attacking-minded midfield slot? For those of you with good memories, I'm sure you all understand the dangers of putting an attacking-minded midfielder in a role that requires strong defensive discipline after Paulinho.

Moussa Sissoko - Solid, okay player. Plays his role pretty well, but limited in ways that are frustrating at times, particularly his efficiency in the final third. I think the coach is partial towards him because you just know what you're going to get, and is very comfortable playing in a deeper role.

Giovani Lo Celso - Excellent technically, questionable fitness according to the coach. Clearly does his best work further up the pitch, and I'm not sure he's suited to a deeper role at all. I remember watching a PSG vs Real Madrid Champions League knockout a few years back where he was deployed as a deep midfielder; he conceded a penalty and looked uncomfortable all game.

Harry Winks - Getting written off, and seems down the pecking order in midfield as of today. That being said, once upon a time, Barcelona had this academy graduate to took until the age of 25 to really explode as a player and fulfill his potential. That player was Andres Iniesta. Meanwhile, Harry Winks is 24....... and he does have Spanish blood running through his veins...............

 

[theShiznit]

Sissoko and any other one/two.

 

[Shadydan]

Sissoko/Winks/Gedson

 

[Matrix]

Inesta had shown more in the youth teams..No slight on Winks, but he's no way near Inesta.

 

[Mornstar]

For reasons beyond my comprehension, people on this forum seem to have a real dislike for Sissoko. I think he provides fantastic versatility and gives our fullbacks the freedom to attack knowing that he'll be on hand to fill any gaps they leave.

With that said, I think our best lineup is

-------------------------Kane--------------------------

----Son--------------Tanguy-------------Bale/Lo Celso

----------------Sissoko------Hojberg-----------------

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Ultimately I think it comes down to this:
- playing a midfield 3, whether as a 2-1 or a 2-1 formation is where we're going/at
- We have three midfield players, who are (when fit) top quality: the others are of questionable quality, or at least have obvious limitations
- Those three aren't obviously complementary...as yet...or at least in the managers mind

Where does this land?

Frankly I think you find a way to make them work. They're all very accomplished. It may be overly reductive, but for me:

- PEH is the most reliable, best defensively, but while good going forward, is arguably the least effective in the final third - he's a proper midfielder. Play him as the deepest of the three, or at least at the base

- GLC is arguably (on the basis of his La Liga record, he's hiding it well here...) the biggest goal threat, with the best pace, probably the best engine and movement. Play him as the most attacking

- Ndombele is the best in traffic and the best passer. He sits somewhere between the two, but is told he probably needs to be more positionally disciplined without the ball, and has license to go forward with it, as long as he and PEH dovetail

There's a solution in there, I'm sure of it. It might just take a while before they're all sufficiently comfortable with the tactics and interplay (i.e. if two are forward, who is covering etc.) between the three of them, and until the fitness of GLC and TN is sufficient to make up for the loss of Sissoko who, for all his faults, is a hell of an athlete

 

[chrissivad]

Not winks or Sissoko, both too limited in what they can do.

I'm still not sure of Hojbjerg role in the team. He drops back into defence at time, but then sits Infront of Winks/Sissoko as well.

For me I would want to see more all rounded players in cm.

We all want to see Hojbjerg sitting just being LoCelso and Ndombele, but both would still need to get back into a cm3 when we don't have the ball.

Skipp and Hojbjerg next season with one of Ndombele or Lo Celso Infront when we need a more aggressive press in cm.

Skipp to replace Winks, and try and bring someone else in for Sissoko.

 

[Sophos151]

Hojbjerg and Ndomeble as the midfield pairing, with Lo Celso ahead of them, in most games.

Sissoko really doesn't offer much. He's next to useless when we're in possession, and is really overrated as a defensive midfielder - less tackles and interceptions per ninety than Winks last season. Moving Ndombele deeper wouldn't make us much more vulnerable, but it would let us progress the ball up the pitch so much quicker and more accurately.

Then Lo Celso is the obvious choice for the attacking midfielder role, and he'd have freedom to drop into midfield if we need more help getting the ball forward.

 

[theShiznit]

In all seriousness, the answer is we don't know.

For all of his obvious limitations, you can see why JM plays Sissoko, he does what he's told and is big and powerful, what he does on/with the ball is way down JM's list of priorities.

I do think there is a player in Winks, but he seems to suffer from lack of belief/confidence. When he is at it he is progressive and moves the ball quickly between the lines, and we have seen passes that showed vision and touch (that pass that Kane squandered the other day being one)

Hojbjerg does what it says on the tin.

Ndombele, i am not sure he will ever have the discipline or ability to curb tricks in dangerous areas of the pitch to play as part of a CM two or as one of the deep lying two.

Lo Celso, needs a long run of games before judgement can be made on him in a CM position, fitness seems to be eluding him at the moment.

The last two's fitness and stamina seem to be what's stopping Jose from playing them together as if both have to be changed around the 60 minute mark it could be quite a problem.

 

[carpediem991]

White/Bowden/Dele

Give youf a chance!!!

No but seriously, when all fit Hojbjerg and Lo Celso certain starters. In addition depending on opponent Ndombele or an upgraded Sissoko. Someone who runs a lot, covers space, wins battles and also is happy to play an incisive pass when needed. And also adds some height to use at set pieces.
I have no idea who that could be as I don't follow any other team in the top flights than Spurs, maybe someone like Brozovic or Berge?

Someone with that profile should be on the top of our next shopping list. Then we can cancel Gedsons loan.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I think it’s pretty clear that Sissoko and Winks are at best useful squad options, though I’d suggest that Winks has more in his locker than he’s shown recently. In terms of first team, I believe that Lo Celso can do pretty much everything that they both can do, but with far more intelligence and ability than either of them naturally possess, so he’d always make by midfield.

Højbjerg picks himself and I actually think he’d be great with Lo Celso in a double pivot if we persist with 4231.

Ndombele makes up my 3 in midfield if we end up playing that; I think he, Lo Celso and Højbjerg would complement eachother well and that if in sync we’d see teams struggle to set up effectively against them. However, if the intention is to persist with a 4231, I genuinely think Ndombele is wasted in the AM role and we’d actually get more use out of Lamela or even Bale (with Lucas on the right) playing there. Even reintegrating Dele could make sense. Ndombele to me looks like he’s playing 15 yards too far forward and it’s inhibiting both his impact and (though this may be to do with the impact of Sissoko behind him) our fluidity.

 

[ILS]

Inesta had shown more in the youth teams..No slight on Winks, but he's no way near Inesta.

I don't know what you have been watching to suggest that Iniesta was as ever as good as Winksy!

 

[Mr Pink]

I think Lamela will start against City.

 

[ILS]

I think it is quite clear we need a another top quality deep lying midfielder to get that balance.

At the moment I'm scared of the thought of those Danish Minks destroying our season by making us play with the English Winks.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I think Lamela will start against City.

I agree. Not sure if it’ll be in Bale or Ndombele’s place but I think Mourinho will value his relentless.

It’d be better if he could do that with Lo Celso in Sissoko’s place but sadly I think the integration schedule makes that unlikely.

 

[chrissivad]

I think Lamela will start against City.

Will he be fit?

 

[Mr Pink]

I agree. Not sure if it’ll be in Bale or Ndombele’s place but I think Mourinho will value his relentless.

It’d be better if he could do that with Lo Celso in Sissoko’s place but sadly I think the integration schedule makes that unlikely.

I expect It to be in Bale's place. He'll have a game plan, Bale used from the bench until he's right up there for fitness.

No way Jose gambles in a game like this, losing it is not an option.

 

[spids]

Against the top teams include Sissoko alongside Højbjerg to defend space in front of our back 4, with one of Ndombele or Lo Celso. Against everyone else play Højberg with two from Lo Celso, Ndombele, Dele, Winks or Lamela.

 

[Mr Pink]

Will he be fit?

I think so. Mourinho said it was minor and he was giving extra rest etc

He knows how crucial he is for us in the big games, think he gave him a deliberate breather with this run of games in mind.

 

[defoes5]

I'm all for Sissoko in games against big teams where we might not have the majority of the ball as he offers a very important physical and at times defensive presence and it excellent in slowing play and counter-attacks. Probem is, when we play the WBA/Burnely's etc e offers incredibly little going forward due to how limited he is which I think it sometimes part of the reason we struggle to get going against supposed easier teams