Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[-Afri-Coy-]

Liverpool Vs Atalanta
Benfica vs Marseille
Bayer Leverkusen Vs West Ham
Roma Vs Milan

Current competition seems pretty good.

Id make Liverpool and Leverkusen favourites over us, but any of those teams could beat us on their day.

Now compare that to the Champions League and there is zero chance we get passed anyone other than Dortmund.

 

[Tucker]

I can't accept that this system can only work with VDV or some other cb with freakish pace. There's no way that Ange would knowingly set us up like that?

How did this high line work at Celtic? I know the quality is way lower but they must have been caught out a fair bit too?

Only 1 clean sheet in 19 or something? That's absolutely woeful for a top 4 chasing team.

Obligatory "I back Ange" before anyone starts.

The system leaves the defenders quite exposed, and so it relies on a well functioning press and a midfield that’s able to dominate the game, and an attack that’s able to consistently threaten and kept the opposition on the back foot.

When that doesn’t work we are vulnerable.

We are very much a work in progress, I think the early season form has fooled a lot of us into thinking we are further along than we actually are. So a few of us are coming down to earth with a bit of a bump.

I’ve faith that given the right recruitment over the next few window that we will come good. But we are going to see more results like yesterday in the meantime while everything clicks into place.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Now compare that to the Champions League and there is zero chance we get passed anyone other than Dortmund.

Id say we would have exactly equal chance Vs Liverpool or Leverkusen as we would any team in the CL not named City or Real Madrid

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

I wouldn't say clearly to be honest, it's incredibly tough to win still. If we take it seriously but we didn't even get far in domestic cups this season. We just never seem to look good in the lesser European games. Our CL performances have been better. I can't think of the last time we looked good in Europa. If Ange can change that then great but I'd still much rather play in the CL. It will also help our coefficient going forward.

The CL form looks better because we've featured there more in the last decade than Europa, and this coincides with us having our best team in 30 years under Poch.

However if we're really using past performances as a metric we've actually won the Europa League twice.

This is why I don't like using past performances as metrics for current competition.

Ange insists he wants to win and be successful, if we take that into account we have to look at which competition we're more like to succeed in.

At the end of the day all things considered, we are more likely to go on to win Europa than we are the Champions League. This is pretty inarguable.

And just to caveat, I prefer the CL football too. It's more prestigious. But I understand probability and I just want us to have the most realistic chances of achieving success (Trophies).

 

[mil1lion]

The CL form looks better because we've featured there more in the last decade than Europa, and this coincides with us having our best team in 30 years under Poch.

However if we're really using past performances as a metric we've actually won the Europa League twice.

This is why I don't like using past performances as metrics for current competition.

Ange insists he wants to win and be successful, if we take that into account we have to look at which competition we're more like to succeed in.

At the end of the day all things considered, we are more likely to go on to win Europa than we are the Champions League. This is pretty inarguable.

And just to caveat, I prefer the CL football too. It's more prestigious. But I understand probability and I just want us to have the most realistic chances of achieving success (Trophies).

We haven't won the Europa , we won the UEFA. A lots changed since then. We also have had plenty of Europa games as a measure to go on. We've been knocked out by plenty of teams we should have beaten in that competition. In the CL we've been knocked out by far better teams. At the end of the day we have very minimal chance winning either so we are better off going after the big one.

 

[Krafty]

Fulham were set up perfectly to deal with our strengths and weaknesses - 2 DMs to cover the centre and offer coverage if the full backs got caught high upfield. Get behind our full backs, and don’t get dragged out of position when defending.

I’m hoping Ange is putting all these in the memory bank, teaching the little tweaks and helping the team learn the lessons to be better set up and better able to deal with things as they unfold.

Ange doesn’t strike me as a big shouter of orders during a game - I wonder if he wants his team to adapt to the game situation within a front foot forward mentality. I would be very happy with that as I think that will prove a winning formula, and doesn’t happen overnight

 

[rossdapep]

I think the problem we have is that we have players that are suited to when teams come at us. Son at CF can get in behind, Bissouma CAN be good evading the press and Deki can break and beat his man very well.
But you put us against a solid team that holds it's positions and those players aren't effective, Son on the Left is wasted, Bissouma doesn't have a great passing range, Dragusin is a Romero replacement and not a VDV replacement as he's really one sided in controlling and passing.

We need more variety in our squad.

Totally this..

I am pretty certain Ange has all that figured now too.

 

[Mr Pink]

We play high risk football. If we’re not at it then unfortunately results like yesterday are on the cards.

This is the most I’ve been engaged in football since the Poch days as I know I’m gonna watch a team that’s gonna try and impose themselves and take risks to score goals and win. And so far I would argue it’s working on the whole as it’s put us ahead of where we all thought we would be this season.

Also need to mention Fulham here. They’re a tidy team who have beaten Arsenal at home, pushed Liverpool all the way over 2 legs and recently won at Old Trafford. Like Everton, they press well from a mid block which is a style we seem to have trouble with at the moment and are in good form. It was always a very tricky game on paper IMO.

Yesterday was shit and the players and manager deserve criticism but it was a rare bad day at the office and my belief hasn’t wavered because of yesterday.

Good teams respond to set backs and I’m confident we will see a response after the international break

Good post that.

But the response is not just against Luton, but West Ham away just importantly as well

 

[SpursSince1980]

Sure. Ange was naive some say? Give over. Or give up.

We are a team in transition. Next season will be similar to this one, albeit more improved. I certainly don’t expect us to win the league. But we will improve. It will take time.

Calling him naive or too cavalier is so short sighted. Do you honestly think a different manager would have that same team playing better?

We‘ve had a few stinkers this season. That was expected. Yesterday was the worst, because not only were all our players pathetic, we also came up against a team that was faultless.

Even then, of VdV was playing, I don’t think we lose that. As he covers up a lot of mistakes and is always operating at 100%. Ange expected Dragusin to be more agressive, but he wasn’t. He spent most of the game like a dear in the headlights. EG: their first goal. VdV would have closed down the space much faster and put in a block. Dragusin wasn’t switched on. That is not Ange’s fault. That is on the player to get over his nerves and play hard.

Ange wasn’t the problem yesterday. It was player attitude. They let themselves and their coach down.

 

[dvdhopeful]

I think the system will always give up more goals than a more defensively rigid one will. It's baked in, a feature not a bug. Not catastrophic etc but just more than others.

The strength of this system is the midfield and attack. The latter area especially needs a real injection of quality to make the system work more effectively. But then isn't that true of every single system? Hardly a unique problem to solve.

Genuine question, I am honestly not aware of one but want to ask the question, has there ever been a championship winning team in a top league that has a weak defence?

Maybe a Galactico type side like Madrid? But then they'd have 6-7 genuine world class midfielders and attackers to compensate.

Are people confident that this style, one that will always give up more chances than other systems, genuinely has title hopes in a top league?

I understand the work in progress but it sounds as though even when the squad has time to get bedded into the system, giving up 'good' chances is always something that will happen, you score 3, we scored 4.

 

[Toast]

you score 3, we scored 4.

Sounds good to me

 

[mil1lion]

Genuine question, I am honestly not aware of one but want to ask the question, has there ever been a championship winning team in a top league that has a weak defence?

Maybe a Galactico type side like Madrid? But then they'd have 6-7 genuine world class midfielders and attackers to compensate.

Are people confident that this style, one that will always give up more chances than other systems, genuinely has title hopes in a top league?

I understand the work in progress but it sounds as though even when the squad has time to get bedded into the system, giving up 'good' chances is always something that will happen, you score 3, we scored 4.

Vicario, Udogie, VdV, Romero and Porro are quality players. I'm sure they will improve in time and concede less. We definitely need better protection in front as well but I'm sure the ball retention and pressing will improve too. Our main issue is not defending from the front enough allowing teams to break too often. Our goal difference under Poch jumped from 5 to 34 then 60 so give it time and I'm sure it will get better.

 

[Misfit]

Genuine question, I am honestly not aware of one but want to ask the question, has there ever been a championship winning team in a top league that has a weak defence?

Maybe a Galactico type side like Madrid? But then they'd have 6-7 genuine world class midfielders and attackers to compensate.

Are people confident that this style, one that will always give up more chances than other systems, genuinely has title hopes in a top league?

I understand the work in progress but it sounds as though even when the squad has time to get bedded into the system, giving up 'good' chances is always something that will happen, you score 3, we scored 4.

Can't think of any myself but I'm not a football nerd.

More interestingly is that the teams AP has won titles with in their respective leagues have not shipped goals in the seasons they won the title. Points to the need to be somewhat solid at the back.

Whether he can repeat the trick of playing his system and being good defensively in the prem with its greater individual talent Vs the a-league, j league and Scottish PL remains to be seen. The good news is the league isn't the only thing worth fighting for and plenty of teams have challenged for titles/top 4 and won trophies whilst being more attacking minded it appears.

 

[only1waddle]

Genuine question, I am honestly not aware of one but want to ask the question, has there ever been a championship winning team in a top league that has a weak defence?

Maybe a Galactico type side like Madrid? But then they'd have 6-7 genuine world class midfielders and attackers to compensate.

Are people confident that this style, one that will always give up more chances than other systems, genuinely has title hopes in a top league?

I understand the work in progress but it sounds as though even when the squad has time to get bedded into the system, giving up 'good' chances is always something that will happen, you score 3, we scored 4.

Even the famous Newcastle "gung-ho" season they only conceded 37, but I do think improved squad depth, a stronger midfield and wingers that pose more threat would see us concede less.

 

[dvdhopeful]

Thanks all, interesting responses - time will tell I guess.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Genuine question, I am honestly not aware of one but want to ask the question, has there ever been a championship winning team in a top league that has a weak defence?

Maybe a Galactico type side like Madrid? But then they'd have 6-7 genuine world class midfielders and attackers to compensate.

Are people confident that this style, one that will always give up more chances than other systems, genuinely has title hopes in a top league?

I understand the work in progress but it sounds as though even when the squad has time to get bedded into the system, giving up 'good' chances is always something that will happen, you score 3, we scored 4.

Typically, no.

The top of the table is usually dominated by the best defensive sides in the league.

However, that does not mean they play in an inherently defensive manner. It could just be down to them keeping the opposition on the back foot so much that they struggle to score.

Kind of like City. They have consistently one of if not the best defensive record in the league.

No one would call them a defensive side though.

Edit: just to continue this train of thought, we have the joint 6th best defence in the league.

Interestingly, Brighton, Wolves and Fulham have only conceded 2 goals more than we have. Everton, astonishingly, have conceded 3 goals less than us.

I would add that in terms of personnel, we have an incredible back 5. There is not many teams in the league that I would swap Vicario, Porro, Romero, VDV, and Udogie for.

 

[Styopa]

Everton, astonishingly, have conceded 3 goals less than us.

Why astonishingly? They have one of the best defensive records in the league, but they also score fewer goals than nearly every other team in the league so that’s their compromise.

They have scored 30 goals fewer than us. Think about that for a second -30 goals. That’s astonishing.

 

[Styopa]

You are neglecting to say that we also sold possibly our best ever player. Also Ange has always been trying hard to get to this level. Now he is here, at the highest level his motivation will be to stay here rather than to move on.

It shouldn’t really need pointing out that we sold the club’s greatest goal scorer and one of the best ever players in Premier League history a few days before the start of the season.

I think a lot of the people who are saying Ange is underachieving now are the same people who were saying Conte was right to criticise the players and we would be in a relegation battle without Kane.

 

[Trix]

Now compare that to the Champions League and there is zero chance we get passed anyone other than Dortmund.

Perhaps we should look at completely throwing next season. The season after that we can have a real go at winning the Championship, it's much easier than the Prem.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Perhaps we should look at completely throwing next season. The season after that we can have a real go at winning the Championship, it's much easier than the Prem.

I'll think twice about posting an opinion on here next time.