coysjod
Well-Known Member
- Feb 18, 2011
- 1,440
- 4,230
Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou
- Thread starter Archibald&Crooks
- Start date
Sp3akerboxxx
Adoption: Nabil Bentaleb
- Apr 4, 2006
- 5,387
- 8,107
Can dumb ****s just stop chatting about Conte?
He's not the manager here.
He will never be the manager here ever again.
Whichever way you feel, he is not the issue here.
Shut the fuck up.
For the love of Yahweh
He's not the manager here.
He will never be the manager here ever again.
Whichever way you feel, he is not the issue here.
Shut the fuck up.
For the love of Yahweh
Adam456
Well-Known Member
- Jul 1, 2005
- 4,459
- 3,127
Debatable. With our resources, if we had success to the point where any 'bigger' clubs desperately wanted him and were prepared to buy him out then I'm not sure who really looks more attractive.
The big six in the EPL are slowly but surely surpassing the big European clubs financially and if you are already at the top of this tree then there are almost no better options
One of the reasons Conte was brought up was to contrast Ange’s start to the season in a negative way. It’s relevant to point out the difference when some people are using Conte’s record after the same number of games last season as a stick to beat Ange with .
And also, although you charmingly refer to anyone “chatting about Conte as “dumb ****s” you have also given lots of green ticks to posts which presumably endorse your view on the subject.
But I agree talking about Conte is so boring now, although a lot of it is clearly because some fans can’t get over him. I guess it’s still a bit raw for some people, which maybe explains your abusive sounding language.
Singaspur
Active Member
- Sep 21, 2005
- 181
- 168
Realistically, there are 2 ways Ange leaves: 1. After 2-3 seasons he gets fed up because the club always leave him short of the tools he needs to achieve something big or 2. After 2-3 seasons, the club sack him because they think someone else could do better with the tools Ange is being given. Maybe that's just 2 ways of looking at the same thing.
If Ange is such a roaring success - couple of league titles? 1 league, 1 CL? - that City or Real come along and lure him away? Well hallelujah, good luck and let's start building his statue.
If Ange is such a roaring success - couple of league titles? 1 league, 1 CL? - that City or Real come along and lure him away? Well hallelujah, good luck and let's start building his statue.
Mr Pink
SC Supporter
- Aug 25, 2010
- 55,252
- 100,605
We'll come out of this tough period a better side for it.
Ange has been completely hamstrung with injurues and suspensions that were just too overwhelming to cope with all at once.
Ive no doubt we'd still be top without all those happening at once.
As it is we just have to get on with it.
Ange is getting a good look at the whole sauad and seeing the drop off between various options and what recruitment is still needed ie more suitable attacking options.
I see us finishing the last third of the season strongly but we may be cut a drift if we dont pick up enough points betweem now and end of January.
But next season under Agne is what im excited about
We could finish 15th this season but id still be 100% behind him going into next season.
Ange has been completely hamstrung with injurues and suspensions that were just too overwhelming to cope with all at once.
Ive no doubt we'd still be top without all those happening at once.
As it is we just have to get on with it.
Ange is getting a good look at the whole sauad and seeing the drop off between various options and what recruitment is still needed ie more suitable attacking options.
I see us finishing the last third of the season strongly but we may be cut a drift if we dont pick up enough points betweem now and end of January.
But next season under Agne is what im excited about
We could finish 15th this season but id still be 100% behind him going into next season.
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Dunc2610
Well-Known Member
- Aug 7, 2008
- 1,607
- 4,022
So many great quotes to take away from his recent interview. I couldn't be more behind him if I tried, I'm literally balls to bum with this guy.
If you give up on it now and with all he says about changing mentality at the club shows that the club doesn't want change to the core it just wants fluff on the surfice. The club has to back him and we have to support him and accept the road will not be smooth initially!
If you give up on it now and with all he says about changing mentality at the club shows that the club doesn't want change to the core it just wants fluff on the surfice. The club has to back him and we have to support him and accept the road will not be smooth initially!
FrankSpencer
Well-Known Member
- May 23, 2007
- 1,253
- 4,184
I’m fully prepared for this to be a bumpy season, he needs a couple more windows to get some more of his players in and really get the system to his liking.
We can see the shoots of something special which should be celebrated given how terrible we’ve been for the last few years. You got this Ange.
We can see the shoots of something special which should be celebrated given how terrible we’ve been for the last few years. You got this Ange.
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1882andallthat
Well-Known Member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 2,872
- 4,230
There is no doubt that injuries and suspensions have coincided with a derailment of what was a great start to the season but I do see hope and and a progression in the way we are playing.
I also think as exciting as our football has been we do need to slightly refine what we are doing on the pitch.
This risk and reward tactic has been taken to the extreme and I will attempt to explain.
Yes risk can lead to reward but I think some of our plays have been taken too far where all I have seen is in them is risk and serious risk where there is no chance of a demonstrable gain.
1. Take Bissouma's attempt to run through 3 players one of them Rodri in such a ridiculously dangerous area, that was never going to end well and based on where he was there was no potential gain, there was potential gain in a simple pass to Davies who could just as easily have fed the ball up field, so one has to ask - where was tge benefit in this if it was all to risk averse with no definable gain and it led to Man City's 3rd, it was a silly amd inevitable goal to give away when there was no sign of gain by taking such a risky move.
2. Exactly the same can be said for Udogie's back pass that led to the Spammers winner. There was everything to lose and nothing much to gain in that move, if it had been executed perfectly back to Vicario what would we have achieved from it ? Not very much no advantageous field position but get it wrong and underhit it even ever so slightly there was everything to lose so one has to ask. What was the point in it if there was nothing to gain from it but everything to lose from it ?
These are the hard questions that Angecand the coaching staff should be asking and questioning the players about when they do something risky. The player should be thinking what is the potential gain ? If there isn't one then don't expose your team to unnecessary risk for risks sake, that is true football intelligence.
Then on the attacking side of things. Why do we now almost always stop and try ever so unlikely thread the eye of a needle passes in the final third that hardly ever come off. There is more than one way of scoring a goal rather than trying to be so bloody clever that you want to walk the ball into the net with the perfect goal. Yet in that second half that is exactly what we we were trying to do, and it was predictably failing time and time again in exactly the same way. It was like watching someone come up with a so called clever plan of trying to repeatedly prove that if you keep flinging a flimsy oven glove against a stubborn brick wall eventually the wall was going to fall down. Here's the news players - guess what it won't work, so how about trying to mix it up by trying something different !
On the one time we did mix it up when Porro put in a perfect and more diect ball to Richarlison he did exactly the same thing he did against Bournemouth last season, he missed and absolute sitter of a chance inside the six yard box woth the goal at his mercy in front of our South Stand by putting it wide. He can't seem to buy a break at the moment.
These minor refinements don't call for an abandonment of our new style of play under Ange which is to be admired, they simply call for a few tweaks which also involve being more bloody ruthless in front of goal and not exposing us to heavy and serious risk with so little demonstrable gain.
I also think as exciting as our football has been we do need to slightly refine what we are doing on the pitch.
This risk and reward tactic has been taken to the extreme and I will attempt to explain.
Yes risk can lead to reward but I think some of our plays have been taken too far where all I have seen is in them is risk and serious risk where there is no chance of a demonstrable gain.
1. Take Bissouma's attempt to run through 3 players one of them Rodri in such a ridiculously dangerous area, that was never going to end well and based on where he was there was no potential gain, there was potential gain in a simple pass to Davies who could just as easily have fed the ball up field, so one has to ask - where was tge benefit in this if it was all to risk averse with no definable gain and it led to Man City's 3rd, it was a silly amd inevitable goal to give away when there was no sign of gain by taking such a risky move.
2. Exactly the same can be said for Udogie's back pass that led to the Spammers winner. There was everything to lose and nothing much to gain in that move, if it had been executed perfectly back to Vicario what would we have achieved from it ? Not very much no advantageous field position but get it wrong and underhit it even ever so slightly there was everything to lose so one has to ask. What was the point in it if there was nothing to gain from it but everything to lose from it ?
These are the hard questions that Angecand the coaching staff should be asking and questioning the players about when they do something risky. The player should be thinking what is the potential gain ? If there isn't one then don't expose your team to unnecessary risk for risks sake, that is true football intelligence.
Then on the attacking side of things. Why do we now almost always stop and try ever so unlikely thread the eye of a needle passes in the final third that hardly ever come off. There is more than one way of scoring a goal rather than trying to be so bloody clever that you want to walk the ball into the net with the perfect goal. Yet in that second half that is exactly what we we were trying to do, and it was predictably failing time and time again in exactly the same way. It was like watching someone come up with a so called clever plan of trying to repeatedly prove that if you keep flinging a flimsy oven glove against a stubborn brick wall eventually the wall was going to fall down. Here's the news players - guess what it won't work, so how about trying to mix it up by trying something different !
On the one time we did mix it up when Porro put in a perfect and more diect ball to Richarlison he did exactly the same thing he did against Bournemouth last season, he missed and absolute sitter of a chance inside the six yard box woth the goal at his mercy in front of our South Stand by putting it wide. He can't seem to buy a break at the moment.
These minor refinements don't call for an abandonment of our new style of play under Ange which is to be admired, they simply call for a few tweaks which also involve being more bloody ruthless in front of goal and not exposing us to heavy and serious risk with so little demonstrable gain.
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Ghost Hardware
Well-Known Member
- Aug 31, 2012
- 18,488
- 63,696
I really don’t see anything wrong with the job he’s doing tbh. If anything it’s incredibly impressive. Growing pains were bound to happen, they always do. Ange is still learning about his team and what individuals are and aren’t capable of. We all know our team is far from complete and he’s only had one transfer window. Not only that we’ve been struck by one of the worst injury crises we’ve had in recent years.
Yes his game management and team selections sometimes have been a little questionable but other times they’ve worked. Again tho our depth is absolutely atrocious so there often isn’t many options available to him.
The reality is until we add more depth of the required quality then results will probably continue as they have. The key for me is to bring in some good talent in Jan whilst moving on some who don’t fit the ethos and continue to build from there until summer when we can really address things.
Considering the football we played last season and the very limited squad we have, this season was always going to be one of transition. The fact we were doing so well for the first few months is testament to how good a manager Ange is. All we fans should be doing is supporting him, we just have to hope that the club do to in the upcoming transfer window or we won’t be going anywhere fast.
Yes his game management and team selections sometimes have been a little questionable but other times they’ve worked. Again tho our depth is absolutely atrocious so there often isn’t many options available to him.
The reality is until we add more depth of the required quality then results will probably continue as they have. The key for me is to bring in some good talent in Jan whilst moving on some who don’t fit the ethos and continue to build from there until summer when we can really address things.
Considering the football we played last season and the very limited squad we have, this season was always going to be one of transition. The fact we were doing so well for the first few months is testament to how good a manager Ange is. All we fans should be doing is supporting him, we just have to hope that the club do to in the upcoming transfer window or we won’t be going anywhere fast.
inclineyid
Well-Known Member
- Dec 5, 2006
- 618
- 1,402
Come again?
mattspur1
Well-Known Member
- Apr 8, 2005
- 1,186
- 1,279
Please don't.
For me it’s definitely a question of squad depth right now and I think most people agree, which is why we were all so worried when Maddison and VDV were injured.
Nearly all of us could see that with our best eleven we were already capable of playing some of the best football in the league but as soon as one or two key players were injured we just didn’t have the quality to cover their absence. And that’s not to mention we lost our best player and talisman before the season started!
This isn’t the case of Ange needing superstars or perfect or specialist players. Maddison and VDV were very attainable players for a club like Tottenham. They weren’t unrealistic or hugely expensive targets.
Ange has also started getting the best out of players like Porro, Bissouma and Sarr who were signed previously.
We just need a few more of them and ultimately that’s down to Levy, not Ange.
Nearly all of us could see that with our best eleven we were already capable of playing some of the best football in the league but as soon as one or two key players were injured we just didn’t have the quality to cover their absence. And that’s not to mention we lost our best player and talisman before the season started!
This isn’t the case of Ange needing superstars or perfect or specialist players. Maddison and VDV were very attainable players for a club like Tottenham. They weren’t unrealistic or hugely expensive targets.
Ange has also started getting the best out of players like Porro, Bissouma and Sarr who were signed previously.
We just need a few more of them and ultimately that’s down to Levy, not Ange.
13VanDerBale13
Well-Known Member
- Jul 12, 2011
- 14,507
- 34,126
I feel like our home form generally this season, hasn’t been great performance wise & that needs changing fast.
tommyt
SC Supporter
- Jul 22, 2005
- 6,193
- 11,084
We are playing some tantalising football in periods during the games so far this season, which everyone can see. Yes there are errors that we can critique, but they're easily quantified due to injuries, need for more suitable players, familiarity with roles and the mental fatigue of remaining 100% switched on while still learning.
Personally, I couldn't be more on-board at the minute - warts and all.
Personally, I couldn't be more on-board at the minute - warts and all.
glacierSpurs
Well-Known Member
- Sep 28, 2013
- 16,163
- 25,473
Score-wise. The performance against chelscum, Villa and spammers were on point. Had we actually went to a 2-goal lead in all these 3 games, we won them all.
mil1lion
This is the place to be
- May 7, 2004
- 42,605
- 78,302
I agree. Every team has key players not just in midfield. VdV is key to our high line , Bentancur is key to our control in midfield and Maddison is key to our attack. Any team will miss 3 key players in defence, midfield and attack. Barca look far better with Araujo, De Jong and Pedri for example.
rossdapep
Well-Known Member
- Aug 25, 2011
- 22,296
- 80,258
When the best teams lose their most key players, they tend to grind out wins.
You can see they have issues but they'll manage to just squeeze out a win or they just won't get a result they needed.
However, that usually happens when the coaches ideas are fully implemented and over a period of time.
We arent there yet.
If our attacking play was closer to how Ange wants it, you'd see us go 2 or 3 up and then probably concede a sloppy goal. The games may be a little haphazard because if the way we play.
What makes me very optimistic is how Ange is speaking.
A lot of coaches see their team play well or average and just sufar coat it with "we deserved a win" and don't really pick out the reasons why they didnt win.
Ten Hag has been an example, some games this season where United looked devoid of ideas, he has said they played well.
Ange hasn't done that. He has been clear that the good football we play only works to a point and it has to lead to winning.
I rewatched our second half and you can see what he is talking about.
There was a phase where 3 or 4 of our players were around the ball, they were knocking it around between them with only 1 WH half engaging them.
They were obviously trying to bait the WH players to create space but also seemed quite relaxed doing it. Like not much urgency. There were also a couple of moments where instead of switching and switching back, we tried to play down an already congested area.
I think these are the details where the players may think they are doing well at, cause they keep the ball. They may think they are doing the right thing so Ange needs to change that.
Also, I noticed a few times when Deki got into dead ends, he checked back as if he was going to play back and we'd switch to other side to stretch them, yet he just tried to go forward again despite the space not really being there.
That could be because Ange wants them to 'play forward'. So may need some tweaks as when it is a good time to mix things up.
But you can see the little details that need work
You can see they have issues but they'll manage to just squeeze out a win or they just won't get a result they needed.
However, that usually happens when the coaches ideas are fully implemented and over a period of time.
We arent there yet.
If our attacking play was closer to how Ange wants it, you'd see us go 2 or 3 up and then probably concede a sloppy goal. The games may be a little haphazard because if the way we play.
What makes me very optimistic is how Ange is speaking.
A lot of coaches see their team play well or average and just sufar coat it with "we deserved a win" and don't really pick out the reasons why they didnt win.
Ten Hag has been an example, some games this season where United looked devoid of ideas, he has said they played well.
Ange hasn't done that. He has been clear that the good football we play only works to a point and it has to lead to winning.
I rewatched our second half and you can see what he is talking about.
There was a phase where 3 or 4 of our players were around the ball, they were knocking it around between them with only 1 WH half engaging them.
They were obviously trying to bait the WH players to create space but also seemed quite relaxed doing it. Like not much urgency. There were also a couple of moments where instead of switching and switching back, we tried to play down an already congested area.
I think these are the details where the players may think they are doing well at, cause they keep the ball. They may think they are doing the right thing so Ange needs to change that.
Also, I noticed a few times when Deki got into dead ends, he checked back as if he was going to play back and we'd switch to other side to stretch them, yet he just tried to go forward again despite the space not really being there.
That could be because Ange wants them to 'play forward'. So may need some tweaks as when it is a good time to mix things up.
But you can see the little details that need work
Trent Crimm
Well-Known Member
- Jun 8, 2021
- 3,954
- 10,541
Will our leader be happy with this ?
Impspur1
Well-Known Member
- May 8, 2014
- 2,365
- 5,860
Lots of great tactical insight on this thread, I also think it may just need a bit of good old fashioned luck to get us going. We are so close to giving someone a hiding, up to the 18 yard box we are playing some cracking stuff at times and it seems the front 3 lack that confidence in one on ones or when they have to think about what to do next.
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