Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Gilzeanking]

Without Romero, Bissouma, Vicario, Sarr, Maddison and Porro we didn't seem to have the technical ability or the confidence to properly build from the back and, in turn, get going at all. Throw a few of those players in there and I think we'd have looked a couple of notches better, but we basically took out all of the technicians at once and Royal, Sanchez, Davies, PEH and Skipp as a group just couldn't handle it.

OOoops ! missed out Udogie . Good post tho.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

I can see why people would be thinking this was a positive. But I’m not sure what he would have been able to learn about a lot of the players, when the thing that makes the system actually works has been taken out. If for example Bissouma had been playing. We might well have seen how well Lo Celso could slot in when Maddison is unavailable. But next to Højbjerg (who himself was unsuited to the position he was playing) Lo Celso looked lost. Solomon, and Perisic also failed to have much of an impact, mainly because we didn’t have a functioning spine. Emerson, Davies, and Sanchez have all performed much better than we saw last night when they had that Bissouma/Maddison spine working alongside them.

Without a functioning spine, many of the players weren’t given a platform upon which to show what they can do.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, this is why I said our summer acquisitions and the resurgence of Bissouma and Sarr have been immense for our squad. The level that we drop off when you take them out of the team is insane, and in hindsight Ange should’ve known better.

You’re right though, I am just talking about the silver lining here. It doesn’t mean that it wasn’t a mistake to switch out 9 personnel all at once.

 

[Styopa]

Caveat to that is that it's only 2 players signed for this manager with a very different style of play to those we've had over the last four years. I doubt we would have signed Forster, Royal and Perisic for Ange's system - possibly not Richarlison either. He's having to make do with what we've got.

Yeah I agree. I look at the team and I see someone like Hojbjerg who was probably signed for Mourinho and someone like Perisic who was signed for Conte and Lo Celso who was signed for Poch. Then you have a couple of Ange players in there too.

And it just shows a lack of joined up thinking at the club as a whole as we have lurched from manager to manger over the last four years.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Yeah there was so much passing back and forth between the CBs and the keeper with no passing options - it was Conte-esque at times. And when we did get the ball through to Royal, Skipp, or PEH in the midfield they were taking poor touches and misplacing passes.

Without Romero, Bissouma, Vicario, Sarr, Maddison and Porro we didn't seem to have the technical ability or the confidence to properly build from the back and, in turn, get going at all. Throw a few of those players in there and I think we'd have looked a couple of notches better, but we basically took out all of the technicians at once and Royal, Sanchez, Davies, PEH and Skipp as a group just couldn't handle it.

Great post.

 

[Monkey boy]

Like another poster said.. if he wanted to test the players out, test them out against Burnley. Why? because should we lose they'll be 34 more games to play.

This a million times over.

 

[jimbo]

I can see why people would be thinking this was a positive. But I’m not sure what he would have been able to learn about a lot of the players, when the thing that makes the system actually works has been taken out. If for example Bissouma had been playing. We might well have seen how well Lo Celso could slot in when Maddison is unavailable. But next to Højbjerg (who himself was unsuited to the position he was playing) Lo Celso looked lost. Solomon, and Perisic also failed to have much of an impact, mainly because we didn’t have a functioning spine. Emerson, Davies, and Sanchez have all performed much better than we saw last night when they had that Bissouma/Maddison spine working alongside them.

Without a functioning spine, many of the players weren’t given a platform upon which to show what they can do.

I do pretty much agree with you on this, but what if Maddison and Bissouma are injured at the same time? Say, the week before an FA Cup semi-final? I'm sure he didn't put these players in expecting them to fail, he will have expected them to step up and prove themselves capable of taking control of the game. To that end, surely it's better we find out they can't do that now rather than at the business end of the season? At least now he should know that he needs to find alternative solutions.

If he makes this same mistake again, then I'd get the level of criticism but at the moment I think it's being overdone considering how early it is in the process.

 

[DiVaio]

that's why Kane (and Bale, Modric, Walker etc) is not willing to stay. most players would want to win trophies.

Most of them would want to win trophies. But all of them also wanted to play in Champions League.

 

[Tucker]

I do pretty much agree with you on this, but what if Maddison and Bissouma are injured at the same time?

This is a concern tbh. I think Bentancur will be able to fulfil a similar role though, once he’s fit. Hopefully we are able to move Højbjerg on and get another player who can do the role too.

 

[jimbo]

You’re right though, I am just talking about the silver lining here. It doesn’t mean that it wasn’t a mistake to switch out 9 personnel all at once.

The only thing that I think is contestable in this is whether there'd be such a strong sense it was a mistake if we'd won the shoot-out. I'm sure there'd be some criticism given the disappointment of the performance but I don't think it would be at the current level. We might feel that we'd navigated a tricky midweek fixture while resting key starters for the league game. Fine margins and all that.

We can't (and I mean as a whole fanbase) criticise the club for its approach in not getting key transfer business done before the season starts, risking early results, and simultaneously say that an early league fixture is less important and the time to rotate the squad.

 

[pvg]

When you pick a team like that you’re probably reducing your chance of winning by 30% and for what? A 5% better performance against Burnley? It makes no sense.

It also makes no sense to say you need to see what you’ve got by playing the fringe players. How the fringe players play with other fringe players is pretty meaningless. What you want to know is which fringe players can come into the team and the drop-off not be too big. You would do that by keeping the core team intact and changing 3-4 players.

Am fully behind Ange but yesterday was a huge mistake.

 

[spursgirls]

Like another poster said.. if he wanted to test the players out, test them out against Burnley. Why? because should we lose they'll be 34 more games to play.

Or test them out a couple at a time, not wholesale.

 

[YB123]

Or test them out a couple at a time, not wholesale.

Exactly it.

Solomon in for Son, Lo Celso in for Madders and maybe the fullbacks. That was all that was needed.

 

[Gilzeanking]

I'm sure he didn't put these players in expecting them to fail, he will have expected them to step up and prove themselves capable of taking control of the game.

So he's had a couple months and still doesn't know that Skipp (for example) can't take the ball on the turn...Not played any 1st team vs B team matches in training ?...can only find out about player's skillsets in competitive games ?
Doesn't sound right to me. The difference between A & B sides is glaringly obvious.

Its easy to see why some are speculating he's been given a brief that Prem is priority. Tho I don't believe it.

 

[jimbo]

So he's had a couple months and still doesn't know that Skipp (for example) can't take the ball on the turn...Not played any 1st team vs B team matches in training ?...can only find out about player's skillsets in competitive games ?
Doesn't sound right to me. The difference between A & B sides is glaringly obvious.

Its easy to see why some are speculating he's been given a brief that Prem is priority. Tho I don't believe it.

Maybe Skipp, for example, can do those things perfectly in a training match. I think he put in a pretty good performance against Barcelona if I remember right. Competitive games are different though, there's pressure on them and pressure does funny things to people.

There's also the squad dynamics/harmony to consider. As things stand all of the players that started last night will be with us until January at least - not giving them minutes in a fixture obvious for rotation (every other Prem team rotated heavily as well) could well have impacts on our season if they become disruptive or if he needs to use them later due to injuries and they've gone into a funk. Those were senior pros for the most part, I think we should be expecting more from them as I'm sure the manager did. There's a lot for a manager to balance and consider that we don't always take into account in our judgements. We took a risk and it didn't work out. I'm sure Ange will be as disappointed to be knocked out as the rest of us, but you have to give players game time if you're going to keep them happy. Though after last night I expect a few will see their opportunities for further minutes much reduced.

Personally I'm pretty convinced that the league is the clubs priority, it's the main bread winner, the cups are our side hustle. I don't like that, but I think it's pretty clear that's how it's viewed in the board room.

 

[Stuart Leathercock]

So he's had a couple months and still doesn't know that Skipp (for example) can't take the ball on the turn...Not played any 1st team vs B team matches in training ?...can only find out about player's skillsets in competitive games ?
Doesn't sound right to me. The difference between A & B sides is glaringly obvious.

Its easy to see why some are speculating he's been given a brief that Prem is priority. Tho I don't believe it.

It is difficult to find out about players until you see them in competitive games. Look at how many on here were creaming themselves about Lo Celso's performances in pre-season friendlies for example. In half-paced non-competitive games Lo Celso looks a good player as he gets the time and space to work the ball onto his left foot, in real matches with pace and intensity he is terrible because of the fact that he is one paced, weak and can't use his right foot to do anything other than stand on.

 

[PLTuck]

I do find it quite funny that 2 days ago i posted "Easy to back a manager when things are going well. Don't want to see cliches like naive banded about when we hit a rocky patch" to mass agrees. (I dont care about ratings from a personal perspective but in this case I felt it was a good barometer of the general feeling around here.)

Literally the very next match we lose, on pens and it seems half of us have gone off the deep end.

It seems there are 2 distinct and very different mindsets at work. Long term, big picture and short term, match by match thinking. Long termers are disappointed but accept that this was always likely to happen, short termers think the world has caved in.

For me personally, I came into this season wanting entertaining football and then see where we were at at the end of the season, and not a game before. I never expected to go on a cup run, and don't expect to be in the CL places come end of season. It's a transitional season whether we like it or not and if you have that mindset I think you'll feel far happier over the course of the season instead of having mood swings that my bi polar niece would struggle to replicate.

Not telling anyone how to feel or think. Just pointing out how a different mindset might make the season less stressful for some of you. This won't be the last game we think we should have a good chance of winning and don't. This won't be the last game where we play poorly. Accept that and take it on the chin when it happens and you'll enjoy the football much more.

 

[onthetwo]

Exactly it.

Solomon in for Son, Lo Celso in for Madders and maybe the fullbacks. That was all that was needed.

guessing what we might not be privy to is the pressure hes under to use/lose squad members

It is difficult to find out about players until you see them in competitive games. Look at how many on here were creaming themselves about Lo Celso's performances in pre-season friendlies for example. In half-paced non-competitive games Lo Celso looks a good player as he gets the time and space to work the ball onto his left foot, in real matches with pace and intensity he is terrible because of the fact that he is one paced, weak and can't use his right foot to do anything other than stand on.

100% this.......

 

[Tucker]

I do find it quite funny that 2 days ago i posted "Easy to back a manager when things are going well. Don't want to see cliches like naive banded about when we hit a rocky patch" to mass agrees. (I dont care about ratings from a personal perspective but in this case I felt it was a good barometer of the general feeling around here.)

Literally the very next match we lose, on pens and it seems half of us have gone off the deep end.

It seems there are 2 distinct and very different mindsets at work. Long term, big picture and short term, match by match thinking. Long termers are disappointed but accept that this was always likely to happen, short termers think the world has caved in.

For me personally, I came into this season wanting entertaining football and then see where we were at at the end of the season, and not a game before. I never expected to go on a cup run, and don't expect to be in the CL places come end of season. It's a transitional season whether we like it or not and if you have that mindset I think you'll feel far happier over the course of the season instead of having mood swings that my bi polar niece would struggle to replicate.

Not telling anyone how to feel or think. Just pointing out how a different mindset might make the season less stressful for some of you. This won't be the last game we think we should have a good chance of winning and don't. This won't be the last game where we play poorly. Accept that and take it on the chin when it happens and you'll enjoy the football much more.

Don’t be daft. No one has gone off the deep end. He got the line up wrong, shit happens. It’s fair to criticise and assess when things go wrong.

 

[PLTuck]

Don’t be daft. No one has gone off the deep end. He got the line up wrong, shit happens. It’s fair to criticise and assess when things go wrong.

Really? You havent seen the posts saying all momentum has been lost, or calling it a disgrace, or saying "thats anges first strike" as though 2 more games like that and we'll have a next manager thread"

There has been many going off the deep end.

That's not to say it wasn't disappointing. It was.

 

[onthetwo]

New manger joins underperforming team, gives underperforming squad players a final chance to prove themselves which they dont take.
Provided they get moved along in the next few windows im totally fine with this.