Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[mil1lion]

It just amazes me that you could have that level of talent and not be willing to put the effort in to be all that you could be. Seems like such a waste to me and I will never understand that mindset in a top level athlete, especially given how competitive it is, and what's required, to get to the prem in the first place.

It makes me question if it is more a physical limitation than mental. Could he benefit from a couple of months of intense physical prep, working on his aerobic fitness and athletiscm? I don't know the answer but it is such a shame, and incredibly frustrating, to see all the talent go to waste in a squad that is crying out for somebody with his technical capabiltiies.

You know Ndombele coming good is not that far fetched. First off he probably hated the brand of football we played under Jose, Nuno and Conte. A player who is happy will work harder so we have to consider this aspect. I also think about the players who responded well to Redknapp as an example. Bentley being one of those who looked much more engaged with the whole squad when he came in for Ramos. He scored that wonder goal in the NLD , proved to be a useful squad player, was throwing the bucket over Redknapp when we got CL football. After his spell with us he dropped off massively and then retired early. The same is happening with Dele who was great under Poch.

Sometimes certain players just click with a certain manager and the whole vibe of a club. If we start to play more on the ball I could see Ndombele thrive because he will probably love the attacking style It's just a lot of fans are already done with him now so probably don't want him to even get a chance. I think Ange will no doubt try his out but if he doesn't work for the team he won't last. I'd give him pre season to see those early signs of change. I do think if he works for the team he could be a very good player for Ange. More likely to be a sub though given the competition in midfield especially if we sign Maddison.

 

[Goobers]

You know Ndombele coming good is not that far fetched. First off he probably hated the brand of football we played under Jose, Nuno and Conte. A player who is happy will work harder so we have to consider this aspect. I also think about the players who responded well to Redknapp as an example. Bentley being one of those who looked much more engaged with the whole squad when he came in for Ramos. He scored that wonder goal in the NLD , proved to be a useful squad player, was throwing the bucket over Redknapp when we got CL football. After his spell with us he dropped off massively and then retired early. The same is happening with Dele who was great under Poch.

Sometimes certain players just click with a certain manager and the whole vibe of a club. If we start to play more on the ball I could see Ndombele thrive because he will probably love the attacking style It's just a lot of fans are already done with him now so probably don't want him to even get a chance. I think Ange will no doubt try his out but if he doesn't work for the team he won't last. I'd give him pre season to see those early signs of change. I do think if he works for the team he could be a very good player for Ange. More likely to be a sub though given the competition in midfield especially if we sign Maddison.

I'm a big believer in this. A player can be a right fit under the right a manager in the right system and then if a different direction is sought that player can be ineffective. That's why it seems to be to be so important to really analyse the players that you are going to buy and have an ideas as to which way you would like to use them !
That's why I think there are players on our books inlcuding those that that have been on loan whose story at the club is not yet finished. Although there is a lot who I think need to move on.

 

[RuskyM]

I'm a big believer in this. A player can be a right fit under the right a manager in the right system and then if a different direction is sought that player can be ineffective. That's why it seems to be to be so important to really analyse the players that you are going to buy and have an ideas as to which way you would like to use them !
That's why I think there are players on our books inlcuding those that that have been on loan whose story at the club is not yet finished. Although there is a lot who I think need to move on.

It is bananas to me that we can watch our greatest ever player develop over the past decade from punchline to one of the world's best and still people confidently suggest they know a player's ceiling.

Actually, if you go further back and include Bale, it's happened twice in fifteen years.

 

[felmani26]

 

[midoNdefoe]

We will have a party when that happens but it won't. He is just a lazy fuker who need shifting permanently. If he is so wonderful why aren't Naples taking up their option or at least extending his loan ?

It was hypothetical mate. Are you saying he wouldn’t be a good player if Ange managed to get him putting in a shift?

‘If he is so wonderful…’
What are you on about?

 

[mil1lion]

It was hypothetical mate. Are you saying he wouldn’t be a good player if Ange managed to get him putting in a shift?

‘If he is so wonderful…’
What are you on about?

Some people can't tell the difference between saying you think a player will come good and the suggestion that they could come good. Like saying you could win the lottery and give up work doesn't mean you're handing your notice in already.

 

[allatsea]

It was hypothetical mate. Are you saying he wouldn’t be a good player if Ange managed to get him putting in a shift?

‘If he is so wonderful…’
What are you on about?

Firstly I don't believe Ange will even try as he will know his dreadful history at Spurs. Secondly what am I on about ? I thought that was obvious. Naples don't want to keep him - why do you think that is if according you he is so good ?

 

[olliec]

I'm a big believer in this. A player can be a right fit under the right a manager in the right system and then if a different direction is sought that player can be ineffective. That's why it seems to be to be so important to really analyse the players that you are going to buy and have an ideas as to which way you would like to use them !
That's why I think there are players on our books inlcuding those that that have been on loan whose story at the club is not yet finished. Although there is a lot who I think need to move on.

I have absolutely no faith in Ndombele. Even for Napoli he couldn’t play a full 90mins. Imagine him pressing for 90mins? Forget about it. He’s not cut out fitness wise for the PL. The quicker we move him on the better.

 

[midoNdefoe]

Firstly I don't believe Ange will even try as he will know his dreadful history at Spurs. Secondly what am I on about ? I thought that was obvious. Naples don't want to keep him - why do you think that is if according you he is so good ?

Are you okay?

where did I say he is wonderful?

Edit: furthermore I don’t think it’s in doubt that he’s a wonderfully talented footballer, it’s his work rate which is in question.
I’m not suggesting he is definitely going to come good, or that it’s even likely. What I did suggest was that, considering the quote, if Ange got him working hard (however unlikely) we would have a hell of a player.

Hope that clarifies things for you

 

[RuskyM]

I will never understand how people can believe a professional athlete doesn't want to do the thing they've dedicated their lives to. If they didn't want to do it, they'd have quit long before becoming professional. Sometimes you get a Dele case where you just fall out of love, but this notion that a professional athlete has stumbled into the top echelons of football without the want or ability to play football has never made sense to me.

 

[allatsea]

Are you okay?

where did I say he is wonderful?

Ignoring the main trust of my point again. Why don't Naples want to keep him ?

 

[Trix]

Indeed, but I'm just saying the manager also has to take some responsibility too. At the end of the day Levy is here and probably will for some time yet. So it's vital we have a manager who will fit with Levy more than trying to get Levy to change his ways. The fact is we have had success under Levy with Jol, Redknapp and Poch so it can be done.

What success? We improved, sure, but we won nothing. I'd argue every single one of those managers plus Jose and Conte have publicly stated they wanted/expected more and never got it. Instead they got a budget version they didn't really want.

 

[Goobers]

I have absolutely no faith in Ndombele. Even for Napoli he couldn’t play a full 90mins. Imagine him pressing for 90mins? Forget about it. He’s not cut out fitness wise for the PL. The quicker we move him on the better.

Forget about Ndombele being mentioned specifically here; I am talking about the bigger picture and players in general.

 

[midoNdefoe]

Ignoring the main trust of my point again. Why don't Naples want to keep him ?

Maybe read back through the posts you’ve quoted and what I’ve said. Then maybe you might find that your question is completely irrelevant to what I wrote.
Thanks

 

[newbie]

It just amazes me that you could have that level of talent and not be willing to put the effort in to be all that you could be. Seems like such a waste to me and I will never understand that mindset in a top level athlete, especially given how competitive it is, and what's required, to get to the prem in the first place.

It makes me question if it is more a physical limitation than mental. Could he benefit from a couple of months of intense physical prep, working on his aerobic fitness and athletiscm? I don't know the answer but it is such a shame, and incredibly frustrating, to see all the talent go to waste in a squad that is crying out for somebody with his technical capabiltiies.

I think his lost the hunger and drive or never had it 200 k a week for 5 years you prob feel like you have made it

 

[newbie]

No it means a lot. Problem is you can't use it in isolation. The problem wasn't hiring Jose or Conte, it was hiring them without understanding fully how they operate and what they'd require to be successful.

defensive coaches never work at spurs, when will levy learn!

Both needed backing and they were not, that is true giving them a championship defence was cruel!

 

[mil1lion]

What success? We improved, sure, but we won nothing. I'd argue every single one of those managers plus Jose and Conte have publicly stated they wanted/expected more and never got it. Instead they got a budget version they didn't really want.

Come off it , we 100% had success under Jol, Redknapp and Poch. So you think only trophies equals success? We may want and even think we should be winning things but that doesn't mean we haven't had success by getting into Europe for 14 straight seasons. Everyone wants more until you win everything, even then you probably want to win it all again. You can still be satisfied what what you've achieved while wanting more.

 

[Darth Vega]

What success? We improved, sure, but we won nothing. I'd argue every single one of those managers plus Jose and Conte have publicly stated they wanted/expected more and never got it. Instead they got a budget version they didn't really want.

This was never the aim at the time though. When you're in mid-table mediocrity and out of Europe for nearly 15 years then that becomes the immediate target. I remember how we all celebrated when we got into the top four for the first time in 2010, pretty much nobody among the fanbase called it a failure because we didn't win a trophy.

The winning trophies conversation with Spurs has only become a thing because of Pochettino. He cemented us as top four regulars and took us close to the promised land so that:

a) winning trophies felt realistic
b) we have nothing left to strive for except trophies, we've done everything else

It's why, for as Levy out as I am, I'm not a fan of the "one trophy in 22 years" comment because it totally ignores the league positions and context of where we were for at least the first eight years of ENIC's reign.

Whether it's our own fans or others, people shift the goalposts whenever we achieve something and retroactively project our current expectations on the club we were pre-Pochettino in order to make it look like we haven't achieved anything.

 

[thehipster]

Apologies if already been posted, but found this article by a player who has played under Postecoglu a great read.

"Ange also absolves his players of negative thoughts or repercussions, assuring them that he'll shoulder any blame if things go awry following his instructions. What more could a player ask for? He equips you with the tools and grants you the freedom to express yourself without fear of reprimand, even if it doesn't always go according to plan."

Optus Sport

sport.optus.com.au

Perfect. If you work your socks off in training, then you will be given the freedom to go out and perform without repercussions.
Effectively, the McCullum/Ben Stokes philosophy that is working most effectively for England Cricket right now.
You may not win every single game....but it will be highly enjoyable for the players, highly enjoyable to watch as a fan...and the opposition will have their work cut out to match the level of ambition, flow and freedom in the football.

If this is Ange's way, then that's music to my ears.

 

[spursfan77]

Matt Law

Ryan Mason is staying at Tottenham Hotspur as part of new head coach Ange Postecoglou’s backroom staff.
Postecoglou has been told he can bring in two coaches from outside and the club have identified Chris Davies, who was an assistant to Brendan Rodgers at Leicester City, as one candidate.
Celtic are keen to hold on to Postecoglou’s assistants in Scotland, John Kennedy and Gavin Strachan, which has prompted Spurs to consider other options, including Davies, Paul Clement and a coach who has previously played under the 57-year-old.
Mason will stay on as a senior member of Postecoglou’s team and the news will be welcomed by Tottenham’s existing squad, as the former midfielder is popular among the players and well liked by club staff.
Mason took caretaker charge of the team for the final six games of the season, having fulfilled the same role two years earlier.
While Tottenham’s campaign finished in disappointment with the club missing out on European qualification and only winning two of their last six games, Mason’s influence is said to have been felt at the club.
Mason had made no secret of his desire to be considered for the permanent job, which placed his future in some doubt when Tottenham decided to look at different options and last week hired Postecoglou.

New Tottenham manager Ange Postecoglou has a number of decisions to make this summer regarding the team on and off the pitch Credit: Getty Images
It is believed that Mason was the subject of interest from clubs looking for a new head coach, but the 31-year-old has decided to remain at Tottenham to continue his development as a coach.
Having worked under Jose Mourinho, Antonio Conte and gained experience of being the number one, Mason can get more valuable experience under the different style of Postecoglou.
He also provides Spurs with some continuity and gives the new coaching staff a link to the club where he also played as a midfielder after joining the academy as an eight-year-old.
Postecoglou is due to officially start work as head coach on July 1, by which time Tottenham hope to have confirmed all of his backroom staff. Matt Wells, who worked as Mason’s assistant during his interim spell could also stay on.
Tottenham are also stepping up their hunt for a new man to fill a senior position above Postecoglou to work closely with incoming chief football officer Scott Munn. Chairman Daniel Levy is thought to have considered candidates to come in as either a technical director or a sporting director.