Loaning players out V's Reserve side

[Roynie]

Having lurked on the site for quite a while, I thought it was about time I started a thread. So here goes (and please be gentle with me!)

Having suffered the ignominious defeaut of 1 - 4 tonight one thing really hit me. Our players were the equal of Ars***l. Where we were lacking was in team work. We gave the ball away so much it was just unreal. Players were expecting to find team mates where they passed the ball to, only to find opponents. We will never win a game if we do that, no matter who plays, whether it be the academy side, the "reserves", the fringe players or the 1st team.

I don't want to single out any players that is not the point of this thread, but Sandro seemed to improve as the game progressed. I think he is ready for the 1st team. All the players seemed strong, but they seemed like a team of strangers. there was no teamwork. The difference, between the two teams, was that the others played together as a side. They do not get loaned out to other teams, usually! One or two do, but not as a whole. The benefit of keeping a reserve side is that they all know how, or where, they are going the play in the team and within the team system. They can simply progress, knowing their role just as our opponents did tonight. It's all well and good out younger players getting first team experience in other teams, who do not play the Tottenham way, but it doesn't teach them anything, it just gives them experience of 1st team football.

It's too late this year as we are not in the reserve league. However, next year we must rejoin the reserve league and only send out one or two players on loan who are on the edge of being 1st teamers. Only then will we, successfully, be able to do what tried to do tonight. :bang:

Now, my beer is getting warm - FECK! :bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

 

[Misfit]

As is the norm on a rugby forum I frequent and is meant in the nicest possible way - fuck off N00b!

With those pleasantries out of the way, I agree with you to an extent. In the sense that there was no unity or real understanding out there tonight. just a collection of individuals.

That said, I'm not sure if getting a reserve side is necessary. After all, minus some disaster like a plane crash (Not even going to dwell on such a human tragedy), will we ever need to throw 11 reserves into the first team all at once again? The entire point of the ressies is to hopefully give the individual players a chance to develop/regain fitness etc so that a single player can come into an otherwise settled side and not lay an egg.

Not sure of the costs or if it benefits the individual players more than loaning them out. Much less were the sole reason for reserves was maybe, one game a season in the CC.

Welcome! Hurry up and drink your beer.

 

[theShiznit]

With the new Premiership reserves i think it's time for Harry to bite the bullet and reform the side.

I'm okay with sending the bulk of the youngsters out but we still have a lot of players kicking their heels.

Tonight's performance was indicative of players who have not played much/any football (competitive or otherwise)

Training ground matches i don't see much merit in, and if we have a 25 man squad with maybe 11-14 playing a week, the others are gonna need to do something a bit more competitve than a training ground friendly every once in a while. which is invariably against a lower league team's reserves...

 

[Misfit]

Actually, yeah, damn fine point about the squad players. Also, have the reserve leagues had a bit of a reshuffle then?

 

[Roynie]

Welcome! Hurry up and drink your beer.

Am drinking as fast as I can, and being a Quins supporter, all I can say is BOLLOX!

The advantage of a reserve side, providing they play the same system as the 1st team, is that players can just slot into the team above, or below, and know what is expected. That is what we were missing tonight.

Just carry the thought one a little and guess how, in the event of multiple injuries to, our centre backs (perish the thought), Caulker would cope in the Champions league! :shrug:

 

[Misfit]

Am drinking as fast as I can, and being a Quins supporter, all I can say is BOLLOX!

The advantage of a reserve side, providing they play the same system as the 1st team, is that players can just slot into the team above, or below, and know what is expected. That is what we were missing tonight.

Just carry the thought one a little and guess how, in the event of multiple injuries to, our centre backs (perish the thought), Caulker would cope in the Champions league! :shrug:

No no, despite you being a quims fans (Waspite here, bow down before me you blood capsule chewing pleb) what you say has definite merit on further reflection.

(Speaking of Caulker, I really hope he makes it).

 

[theShiznit]

yes there is a new revamped premier league reserves league.
where it is in 3 groups north A&B and southern, but as well as playing all the teams in your group home and away, you also play everyone from the other groups once. (so Chelses will play Manchester Utd and Liverpool)

also a lot of the games seem to have been at the first team grounds (don't know if this is a requirement)

 

[Misfit]

yes there is a new revamped premier league reserves league.
where it is in 3 groups north A&B and southern, but as well as playing all the teams in your group home and away, you also play everyone from the other groups once. (so Chelses could play say Manchester Utd or Liverpool)

also a lot of the games seem to have been at the first team grounds (don't know if this is a requirement)

That seems much better. Used to just be north and south with the winners facing each for the title I think?

 

[Roynie]

No no, despite you being a quims fans (Waspite here, bow down before me you blood capsule chewing pleb) what you say has definite merit on further reflection.

(Speaking of Caulker, I really hope he makes it).

Eh BOLLOX - again, we just got caught (and rightly so), many others have been there and not been - hey ho!

It just seems to me that, if we hope to play the the CL, and hope to stay in the top 4, we MUST have players who have the ability to slip in to the 1st team and know what they are supposed to be doing, and where they can expect to find a team mate.:hump:

 

[C0YS]

our reserves play quite a bit, just not in the league. Their side player by player was considerably stronger then ours, we were playing close to our weakest team without digging into our youth team. They were playing quite a strong team. They finished with 5 players who started against Sunderland. We finished and started with only 1 player who started against Wolves (BAE). They actually took it a lot more seriously then us. It it told. look I can't be bothered to go over this again but look up my older posts if you are so keen to see more of this oppinion

 

[BorisTM]

Having lurked on the site for quite a while, I thought it was about time I started a thread. So here goes (and please be gentle with me!)

Having suffered the ignominious defeaut of 1 - 4 tonight one thing really hit me. Our players were the equal of Ars***l. Where we were lacking was in team work. We gave the ball away so much it was just unreal. Players were expecting to find team mates where they passed the ball to, only to find opponents. We will never win a game if we do that, no matter who plays, whether it be the academy side, the "reserves", the fringe players or the 1st team.

I don't want to single out any players that is not the point of this thread, but Sandro seemed to improve as the game progressed. I think he is ready for the 1st team. All the players seemed strong, but they seemed like a team of strangers. there was no teamwork. The difference, between the two teams, was that the others played together as a side. They do not get loaned out to other teams, usually! One or two do, but not as a whole. The benefit of keeping a reserve side is that they all know how, or where, they are going the play in the team and within the team system. They can simply progress, knowing their role just as our opponents did tonight. It's all well and good out younger players getting first team experience in other teams, who do not play the Tottenham way, but it doesn't teach them anything, it just gives them experience of 1st team football.

It's too late this year as we are not in the reserve league. However, next year we must rejoin the reserve league and only send out one or two players on loan who are on the edge of being 1st teamers. Only then will we, successfully, be able to do what tried to do tonight. :bang:

Now, my beer is getting warm - FECK! :bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

They were a team of strangers, it was obvious these people had not played many games together, some of them were off position, and one of them, Giovani, was plain F BAD. You can't have a team like that play against Arsenal.

 

[michaelden]

It wasn't just they were bad, they didn't knowe their role in that formation. We had no shape

 

[bouncebackability]

I was watching the game with an Arsenal fan last night and he suggested the reason why Arsenals players looked so much more comfortable than ours.

From youth teams up to the reserve side all of Arsenals teams are made to play in the same formation/fashion as the first team (as with Barcelona) so that when they do eventually need to make the step up, they can do so easily and without having to adapt on the day to a new formation.

It seems to me that Spurs' formation and tactics last night were solely picked on who was fit and we had several square pegs trying to fit into square holes.

 

[guiltyparty]

I was watching the game with an Arsenal fan last night and he suggested the reason why Arsenals players looked so much more comfortable than ours.

From youth teams up to the reserve side all of Arsenals teams are made to play in the same formation/fashion as the first team (as with Barcelona) so that when they do eventually need to make the step up, they can do so easily and without having to adapt on the day to a new formation.

It seems to me that Spurs' formation and tactics last night were solely picked on who was fit and we had several square pegs trying to fit into square holes.

Makes complete sense. As I've said in another thread, playing 4-5-1 last night was utterly bizarre. Surely all players would have been more comfortable in a 4-4-2?

 

[james82mckay]

I was watching the game with an Arsenal fan last night and he suggested the reason why Arsenals players looked so much more comfortable than ours.

From youth teams up to the reserve side all of Arsenals teams are made to play in the same formation/fashion as the first team (as with Barcelona) so that when they do eventually need to make the step up, they can do so easily and without having to adapt on the day to a new formation.

It seems to me that Spurs' formation and tactics last night were solely picked on who was fit and we had several square pegs trying to fit into square holes.

Your gooner mate is right. At Arsenal every team for youth level up play with the same style and approach to the game, this is in my opinion why they seem to integrate youth into there 1st team better than we do.
This is unfortunately something that will only happen if we have the stability of 1 manager for a long long period. It takes time for a manger to establish himself and his football style upon the 1st team let alone every level of the club. The young players and coaching staff also need to believe in him and that he will be there when they 'graduate'.

As for last night I hate loosing to Arsenal but at the end of the season i'll probably not even remember this match or give 2 :hump:'s about going out at this stage.

 

[PT]

I say we take a leaf out of Hoddle's book of Innovation and buy Leyton Orient to put our kids in the Second Division, playing the way our First Team does.

It could be called Leyton Hotspur or something.

 

[theShiznit]

I say we take a leaf out of Hoddle's book of Innovation and buy Leyton Orient to put our kids in the Second Division, playing the way our First Team does.

It could be called Leyton Hotspur or something.

I'd rather put all my kids (or at least their makers...) into Leighton Meester :hump: Spurs_youths_enter_here...

 

[Roynie]

I was watching the game with an Arsenal fan last night and he suggested the reason why Arsenals players looked so much more comfortable than ours.

From youth teams up to the reserve side all of Arsenals teams are made to play in the same formation/fashion as the first team (as with Barcelona) so that when they do eventually need to make the step up, they can do so easily and without having to adapt on the day to a new formation.

It seems to me that Spurs' formation and tactics last night were solely picked on who was fit and we had several square pegs trying to fit into square holes.

That is precisely my point. If we really want to break into the top group of England's elite clubs, or dare I even think Europe's elite, then we have to think longer term than just this season, or this current crop of young players. Yes we have had too many changes of manager over the last few years, but I do think that this is where Daniel Levy needs to set out a club policy that we will have a reserve side. This is especially true if the reserve league is changing as mentioned above. We need to have club style, and formation of playing, so that the younger players can step up to the 1st team and not look totally out of place.

 

[theShiznit]

i think you'll find our youth team play better football than the main team. IMO our 1st team 'football' is reliant on Modric (and Now VDV) playing well

 

[Lilbaz]

Why do we need to re-join the reserve league? We will then have to field a team every week or so. At the moment we can just arrange a Spurs X1 friendly as we did last Wednesday.
Yes the youngsters will need to play the same way as the first team squad making it easier to fill in if required, but as has been said we have not had the luxury so far as we have changed managers every 2 years. Hopefully this will cahnge and we can have Harry for 10 years.