It's the Euros 2020! Finals Match Thread: It’s gone to Rome…

[Mattspur]

Convenient way to brush the issue under the rug and not face the issue head on. Can't just keep on kicking the can down the road and pretending that these issues don't exist.

I really don't think that's what Southgate was trying to do. He was just relaying the information given to him.

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

Oh please … let’s be 100% totally and brutally honest:

The violent thugs, brutes, idiots, fans - whatever you chose to call them are English. This is an English problem. With the England fans. Never any problems anywhere in the world with the Irish, the Scots, the Welsh or the Norther Irish. But always the English. It’s not a British problem, it’s an English problem. You shouldn’t be embarrassed on behalf of humanity or people in general. You should only be embarrassed about the English. French, German, Dutch, Belgian, Spanish, Italian, Turkish - any of the Scandinavian or Nordic countries: never a problem. And if there are problems - never on an English level.

England fans are an embarrassment to themselves and their nation. But the most embarrassing is that nothing has ever been done to rectify it.

The English are not saints but have you been to any away matches in Europe. Most European clubs have a cesspit of support with extreme fascist views. And that is just in their police.

 

[MassadaTom]

The English are not saints but have you been to any away matches in Europe. Most European clubs have a cesspit of support with extreme fascist views. And that is just in their police.

Clubs... There is club related violence anywhere. Intensity differs from country to country.
English national team violence is a special kind.

 

[philll]

More of this. Great that the players aren't downing tools on the off-the-pitch stuff.

 

[SandroClegane]

I really don't think that's what Southgate was trying to do. He was just relaying the information given to him.

Like it or not, it's what he did. He shouldn't have said anything.

 

[Beni]

Thats awful. So sorry for you. I'd have been bricking it.
These arseholes need putting down.
I still maintain it wouldn't have been as bad with an early ko. An evening ko was stupid. Not making excuses. More I knew this kind of shit would happen, why didn't the authorities?

Yeah was a bit scary, glad my kids were fast asleep and didn’t see it all. KO time was crazy, but again all to do with TV as probably couldn’t clash with Wimbledon final.

So yeah it was awful moments afterwards, however 2-3 English families all came round knocked on the door and congratulated Italy winning and brought over some drinks to celebrate with us, and that’s what majority of this country is like.

 

[DenverSpur]

The hubris and arrogance is astonishing. "We had the players to do what we wanted," as if another formation wouldn't have seen a different response from Italy and that they'd just play the exact same way they played in the first half.

Italy are a very impressive team that haven't lost in 34 games. They were torn to shreds in the first half last night and they changed the system to take back some control. Because they're a good team and they have one of the world's best managers (and even that manager was comprehensively outcoached in his semi-final but imagine he lost that shootout and faced demands for the sack). We were unable to get another goal during tjst early blitz but to suggest continuing to play that way after they switched their shape and filled out the middle of the pitch is just lunacy. It's not how it works.

Our players went from being composed upon winning back the ball throughout the tournament to suddenly forgetting how to pass, ceding the ball over and over again until they changed formation themselves (and bought balance back to the match thereafter). That's it. Otherwise, we didn't let Italy threaten too much and had to contend with their two pensioner CBs having pretty much perfect games.

There were mistakes. The choice of penalty takers is all on Southgate and in hindsight Henderson was the wrong way to bring back composure. But in the moment nobody I was watching with thought he'd have such a poor time of it upon coming in.

Otherwise, another goal in those early phases and it would be a different game and different discussion now. But it wasn't. Not because we "didn't do what we want" as if Italy would just let us have their way with them, but because they held on when in peril in the first hald, we fell just short in the second.

Back to back semi finals and a final draw against the tournament's best side, for a team that hadn't been in a final for nearly six decades and even then it's in spite of him not because of him? Right. Honestly seems like so many would rather we went out to Germany 3-1 after being turned over on the counter three times and getting lauded for the "heroic" brave effort because Sancho broke their offside trap and Gealish nutmegged Muller.

Not sure you were watching the same game as me? Can’t see how you can say they (Italy)were torn to shreds in the first half and they held on when in peril when in fact England never had another attempt on goal in the first half after we scored. We didn’t just fall short in the second we were comprehensively second best yet Southgate made no move to change that situation until they equalized.

 

[DenverSpur]

Sure, if he knew we'd lose then yes, that would have been a good option. He didn't know it, and we didn't even lose in the match proper.

I'm not saying Southgate isn't responsible for losing. Of course he is. He's the boss. The players are also responsible but they're not the boss so they're burdened with less of it.

He's the one that must take the majority of the blame and I'm not trying to suggest otherwise. But that doesn't mean the criticisms and alternative strategies being offered are then correct by default. They're not and I strongly suspect "bringing on the big guns" to chase another goal and a bigger lead would have seen us either draw 2-2 anyway or, more likely, lost to a team that knows how to control not just the match but the psyche.

I think you’re missing the real point people are trying to make. Of course anything Southgate did may not have changed the final outcome but what pisses most people off is that he didn’t do anything to TRY and win the game. The focus yesterday ( and throughout the tournament) was on not conceding (I.e. not losing) and too little focus on scoring and winning the game. In contrast Mancini made various tactical tweaks and substitutions to get back level and to TRY and go on and win it. I got the feeling after they equalized that Southgate was quite happy for it to go to penalties because then we didn’t lose the”game” and as it’s a lottery there would be no blame attached if we didn’t win it - which is how most of the press see it. That’s just the cynic in me but even so I’m still pissed we didn’t, at anytime yesterday, try to make a game of it and win or lose be able to say we gave it our best shot. We didn’t and that’s what annoying not the result itself.

 

[blankom]

Englands high moral ground is now sunk after tomights dark arts.?

I gave you a rainbow mate - only because it was the last emoji you were missing ?

 

[Stamford]

Oh please … let’s be 100% totally and brutally honest:

The violent thugs, brutes, idiots, fans - whatever you chose to call them are English. This is an English problem. With the England fans. Never any problems anywhere in the world with the Irish, the Scots, the Welsh or the Norther Irish. But always the English. It’s not a British problem, it’s an English problem. You shouldn’t be embarrassed on behalf of humanity or people in general. You should only be embarrassed about the English. French, German, Dutch, Belgian, Spanish, Italian, Turkish - any of the Scandinavian or Nordic countries: never a problem. And if there are problems - never on an English level.

England fans are an embarrassment to themselves and their nation. But the most embarrassing is that nothing has ever been done to rectify it.

And that is why I hope it never comes home

 

[Who’s our next manager?]

I really do mean this...
Today Ive seen videos of punch ups at pub screenings, racial tweets, supporters storming Wembley and rioting on the streets of London and more. All post Euro Cup final England defeat. Ive never experienced such events but Im not surprised. It has spoiled the whole event for me. Im Italian and can enjoy the victory but it feels so shallow. What a load of bollocks all this is. Years past a black player (JF) took his life because he was gay. Will we see a black player to lose or take their life because of all the shite he has to take after a defeat or just playing poorly.

I detest racism in any form but sadly there are racists out there. I honestly think that footballers taking the knee against racism is now proving counter productive. It’s been going on for a long time so I think it’s reasonable to accept that we understand what the players are supporting. I honestly believe it’s ‘winding’ racists and troublemakers up and they are continually being bloody obnoxious deliberately ,partly because of the taking of the knee.

 

[Stamford]

I detest racism in any form but sadly there are racists out there. I honestly think that footballers taking the knee against racism is now proving counter productive. It’s been going on for a long time so I think it’s reasonable to accept that we understand what the players are supporting. I honestly believe it’s ‘winding’ racists and troublemakers up and they are continually being bloody obnoxious deliberately ,partly because of the taking of the knee.

So they should stop taking the knee because it's winding racists up? These people were racist before and they are going to be racist after. They're doing a great thing by highlighting it and all these people have done is prove them to be correct. It honestly feels like some people only discovered racism existed 18 months ago so there is a long way to go

 

[Serpico]

I gave you a rainbow mate - only because it was the last emoji you were missing ?

Ive just seen a video of both Kane and Philips doing an Immobile at the same time. Both went down like sacks of spuds and both got up after rolling around in pain and sprinted after the play when ignored.

 

[Who’s our next manager?]

So they should stop taking the knee because it's winding racists up? These people were racist before and they are going to be racist after. They're doing a great thing by highlighting it and all these people have done is prove them to be correct. It honestly feels like some people only discovered racism existed 18 months ago so there is a long way to go

I think the racists are deliberately obnoxious even more because of the taking of the knee. We all know what it means now and we all agree with the motives behind it but the trouble makers are fuelled by it. I remember in my schooldays there were some teachers who used to lose their tempers and shout much more than others. They were the ones we used to annoy even more.

 

[Serpico]

Anyone one who denies racism in football or finds excuses to soften it, are part of the problem.

Southgate (so he was told) suggesting most of the tweets were from abroad is irrelevant . He will get his Knighthood if he keeps saying whatever needs to be said to defuse/cover up or soften the problem.

 

[topper]

Oh please … let’s be 100% totally and brutally honest:

The violent thugs, brutes, idiots, fans - whatever you chose to call them are English. This is an English problem. With the England fans. Never any problems anywhere in the world with the Irish, the Scots, the Welsh or the Norther Irish. But always the English. It’s not a British problem, it’s an English problem. You shouldn’t be embarrassed on behalf of humanity or people in general. You should only be embarrassed about the English. French, German, Dutch, Belgian, Spanish, Italian, Turkish - any of the Scandinavian or Nordic countries: never a problem. And if there are problems - never on an English level.

England fans are an embarrassment to themselves and their nation. But the most embarrassing is that nothing has ever been done to rectify it.

There is no denying that England, unfortunately, do have an element in its following that is loutish in the extreme - but there is violence in Germany and the Netherlands at games and while no one can condone the vile racial abuse aimed at the 3 English lads last night, there's overt racism at games week in week out in Italy and much more above the level in this country at league games

 

[Spurs_1981]

There is no denying that England, unfortunately, do have an element in its following that is loutish in the extreme - but there is violence in Germany and the Netherlands at games and while no one can condone the vile racial abuse aimed at the 3 English lads last night, there's overt racism at games week in week out in Italy and much more above the level in this country at league games

I did a very small bit of reading on European football violence earlier and will try and do some more, the particular study I read suggested that incidents of football violence are consistant at about 10% of the match going public In Germany, UK, Italy and Holland but the UK has a unique dimension as it is more likely to manifest in international competition compared to the other countries.

Would suggest that it isn't exceptional to the English but does manifest differently to other European nations.

 

[Serpico]

I detest racism in any form but sadly there are racists out there. I honestly think that footballers taking the knee against racism is now proving counter productive. It’s been going on for a long time so I think it’s reasonable to accept that we understand what the players are supporting. I honestly believe it’s ‘winding’ racists and troublemakers up and they are continually being bloody obnoxious deliberately ,partly because of the taking of the knee.

The knee is to support racism against black players. Waiting outside Wembley and attacking anyone in a blue top is beyond that mind set. I dont believe they need any excuse. I feel the media whipped up a storm through and especially before the final and with the expectations to lift the cup was taken away, we saw the melt down.

 

[Spurslove]

I sincerely hope Southgate gets sacked very soon, but of course, he still retains the love and support of the nation and (more importantly) the FA.

Another major factor has to be that there are no obvious candidates to succeed him, but with the World Cup on the near horizon it's imperative we find someone who can transform the current side into one which mirrors perfectly the Italian side we lost to yesterday in attitude, belief and ability.

We have the players but we're just not playing them right. It would be a tragic waste of their talents if we don't use the wonderful players we have to the best of their abilities in the WC qualifying matches.

Sorry Gareth, you're obviously a lovely bloke, but I hope your time will soon be up.
.

 

[MassadaTom]

My personal experience with England supporting tourists in Scotland through tournament:
Weird aura of bullish superiority after wins , other nations present type of happiness that’s invite others to celebrate (both Germans and Mexicans on previous tournaments I had in big numbers and they where great creating fiesta like atmosphere for all).
For final they where in slightly minority (all Scots supported Italy, some local Italians ,Edinburgh have strong ties and relatively old thriving Italian community ) and responded with real anger and aversion after defeat .
Had to break up couple of fights trigger by “overtly enthusiastic” celebration.
Side note
we are considered “English” pub with predominantly English student clientele.We heavily promote Rugby and I did not witness anything similar even on Sco - Eng games.
Side note 2
Unrelated to violence, first time England supporters where so varied in ethnic composition, I have seen some members of local mosque before quietly interested now openly presenting England football shirts and actively supporting