High tempers after the Chelski game

[Bus-Conductor]

Dawson was a key player the times that we have made it to CL.

He was no more "key" than Bassong, Huddlestone, Crouch, Defoe, Corluka, Palacios and Gomes.


Football evolves.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

It's fascinatingly revealing when people trot out their standard clichéd comments about Dawson after a match like Sunday's.

It seems to have occurred to no one that we conceded one goal when the estimable and hugely talented Vertonghen slipped and then had the bad judgment to try a back-pass when he was in no position of control to do so, that we conceded another goal when the much-admired and daunting Kaboul got the wrong side of Eto'o and put his hand on Eto'o's back, that we conceded another goal when the "beast" Sandro slipped in the penalty box and that we conceded another goal when England defender and generally exciting fullback Walker decided that an idiotic header back to the goalkeeper was a good plan.

In the meantime, "all heart and no technique" Dawson was dealing with Chelsea's fearsome attackers without incident. Vertonghen, Kaboul, Sandro and Walker: all players who get far more respect than captain Dawson, who is viewed as an accident waiting to happen and as incapable of defending effectively against real quality opposition.

Nevertheless, it seems to have escaped everyone that he was the only defender who acquitted himself competently on Sunday.

Says way more about the people here than it says about Dawson.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Confirmed.

Sandro reveals how Tottenham held angry crisis meeting
Last Updated: 12/03/14 11:21pm

Sandro has backed Tim Sherwood's scathing assessment of Tottenham and revealed how the squad held an angry meeting after the heavy Chelsea defeat.

Tottenham's hopes of a Premier League top-four finish were severely dented by Saturday's 4-0 defeat at Stamford Bridge and head coach Sherwood lambasted his side, accusing them of lacking character.

The players were also branded too 'nice' by their angry boss, but Sandro has shed light on how his team-mates vented their frustrations in a lengthy dressing room inquest.

"We spent more than two hours in a meeting amongst the players and we said what we had to say," he said.

"From now on, we know that we all have to listen when anyone says something. It was after the manager's conference with the press.

"We had a meeting with the players. Sometimes one player got a bit more stressed out and we tried to calm him down and talk in a nice way. We spent about two hours that way. Every player had their fair share to say, put it that way. We all spoke amongst ourselves.

"For me, to be honest, it helped a lot because now I can go and tell another player, and another player can tell me. The manager likes it. Everyone can go for it now, and I think it will help.

"I think that is positive from ourselves and we have to show in the next match that we can do much better. And we will prove that. I am sure we will show much more character in the next matches."

Former Spurs boss Glenn Hoddle raised concerns about Sherwood's outburst, but Sandro insists he repeated his media comments to the players.

"He said the same thing to us as what he said to the press," the 24-year-old said.

"I know the manager is with us and we are with the manager. We need to show a bit more in the next match to tell the manager that we care. We will do that.

"Sometimes when you lose games in that way everyone gets cross and we all scream and shout.

"Maybe some managers shout more than others. (Former manager Andre) Villas-Boas, for example, liked to pull you aside and have a nice chat to you to explain things.

"But other managers are more vocal. As professional football players, we have to work with all managers and do our best for them and for us."

Sandro hopes a fired-up Spurs side will produce a response in Thursday's Europa League last-16 first-leg clash with Benfica.

"After a match like this (against Chelsea) we were all upset with what happened on the pitch and I think we have to put in some more effort than we

did," he said.

"The manager said we need to show more character. Maybe it is that. We have this big game against Benfica, where we can show that we are better than that."

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...veals-how-tottenham-held-angry-crisis-meeting

Sounds like an episode of Jerry Springer.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It's fascinatingly revealing when people trot out their standard clichéd comments about Dawson after a match like Sunday's.

It seems to have occurred to no one that we conceded one goal when the estimable and hugely talented Vertonghen slipped and then had the bad judgment to try a back-pass when he was in no position of control to do so, that we conceded another goal when the much-admired and daunting Kaboul got the wrong side of Eto'o and put his hand on Eto'o's back, that we conceded another goal when the "beast" Sandro slipped in the penalty box and that we conceded another goal when England defender and generally exciting fullback Walker decided that an idiotic header back the goalkeeper was a good plan.

In the meantime, "all heart and no technique" Dawson was dealing with Chelsea's fearsome attackers without incident. Vertonghen, Kaboul, Sandro and Walker: all players who get far more respect than captain Dawson, who is viewed as an accident waiting to happen and as incapable of defending effectively against real quality opposition.

Nevertheless, it seems to have escaped everyone that he was the only defender who acquitted himself competently on Sunday.

Says way more about the people here than it says about Dawson.

Apart from the errors early in the game (by Dawson) that could have led to goals as well ? The reason Dawson get's "cliched" comments continually is that he is making similar cliched errors or demonstrating similar integral flaws repeatedly and has done for a very long time. Like stepping back and playing the Norwich player onside. Like galloping forwarding and selling himself and not getting the ball like he did against Dnipro. Like being slow across the deck and uncomfortable on the ball if pressed.

Of course he isn't terrible every minute of every game, After the early phase he was fine against Cheslea. But that doesn't mean that he is good enough. Like Defoe has become a record scorer for the club but he isn't good enough - to match the ambitions we have now.

Walker doesn't get more respect from me and many others, he too makes way too many mistakes.

But the point with Sandro is that his error was a slip, not a piece of football that is indicative of his normal game. He's not perfect, but within his remit he is consistently closer to the level of performance we need than Dawson is within his remit.

We don't criticise Dawson for slipping, we criticise Dawson for the consistent flaws in his game (skill set) that are indicative of ingrained deficiencies.

 

[beats1]

Dawson was a key player the timesTIME that we made it to CL.

FYP

 

[gavspur]

De Rossi, Xavi and Gerrard? First of all those three are just crazy picks. Do people actually think that we can solve this problem by buying more players that have no connection to Spurs? If we want someone who bleeds Tottenham we need to keep and develop players like Townsend, Carroll, Kane, Walker and Rose. We got rid of Caulker who now is the captain for Cardiff in his first season there, selling him was mental, truly fucking stupid. He has the potential to become a really good defender and he was OURS from when he was a child. Perfect future captain material. If Cardiff is relegated I hope we buy him back.

Umm, I'm sorry, you really don't seem to understand what I was getting at, do you? I was pointing out that those players are un reachable, and past their best... But well done for noticing.. Not many posts get my back up on here, but this does... It kinda shows how stupid some of our fans can be (pls note, not all)... I tell ya what mate, tell me who could pull our team around right now, with the leadership we need so badly? Ie. who could be the managers voice on the pitch? A player the squad look up to? Cos that was my point.. Douche.

 

[teok]

I'm getting to the stage were I'm sick of hearing all this, just hope our players do their talking on the pitch for the rest of season and a positive performance (and result) in our next few games will be a good start.

Chelsea fans must be pissing themselves. Mourinho was certainly enjoying it all.

 

[Kingstheman]

Too many players, facing our own goal, passing it back towards goal into potential danger areas, occasionally when opposition players are behind them.

 

[matthew.absurdum]

Give Sandro the Captaincy, now

 

[nidge]

Give Sandro the Captaincy, now

Not a bad idea if only he could put a run of games together without getting injured.

 

[spursbri111]

It's fascinatingly revealing when people trot out their standard clichéd comments about Dawson after a match like Sunday's.

It seems to have occurred to no one that we conceded one goal when the estimable and hugely talented Vertonghen slipped and then had the bad judgment to try a back-pass when he was in no position of control to do so, that we conceded another goal when the much-admired and daunting Kaboul got the wrong side of Eto'o and put his hand on Eto'o's back, that we conceded another goal when the "beast" Sandro slipped in the penalty box and that we conceded another goal when England defender and generally exciting fullback Walker decided that an idiotic header back to the goalkeeper was a good plan.

In the meantime, "all heart and no technique" Dawson was dealing with Chelsea's fearsome attackers without incident. Vertonghen, Kaboul, Sandro and Walker: all players who get far more respect than captain Dawson, who is viewed as an accident waiting to happen and as incapable of defending effectively against real quality opposition.

Nevertheless, it seems to have escaped everyone that he was the only defender who acquitted himself competently on Sunday.

Says way more about the people here than it says about Dawson.

well put. im sure some on here think that missing plane is dawson fault

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

well put. im sure some on here think that missing plane is dawson fault

To be fair, one of those misplaced diagonal balls could have been the cause...

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Hazard and Oscar would be brilliant in Southampton

Whoops pellegrini. Haha

On a side note, Southampton would be duking it out for top 4 if those two signed haha

 

[benski]

well put. im sure some on here think that missing plane is dawson fault

One of his cross-field balls hit the plane out if the sky maybe?

Seriously though for all the huff and puff he's just a player that belongs in a different era, and has fans on here who help prove that theory. I know some of you value effort over ability but its pretty obvious how limited he is but I guess some people just refuse to see it. No ones knocking your belief system they just have eyes that are open and maybe understand the modern game in a way maybe you don't.

I'd wager a guess that some of you Dawson fans are like this: English in origin, never wanted Defoe sold, hated AVB from the start and think Harry was a genius. If only Jimmy Hill still presented match of the day you guys might be making a lot of sense.

Edit: tibsy well played getting there with the joke first

 

[Yid-ol]

One of his cross-field balls hit the plane out if the sky maybe?

impossible.... he isn't that accurate

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

One of his cross-field balls hit the plane out if the sky maybe?

Seriously though for all the huff and puff he's just a player that belongs in a different era, and has fans on here who help prove that theory. I know some of you value effort over ability but its pretty obvious how limited he is but I guess some people just refuse to see it. No ones knocking your belief system they just have eyes that are open and maybe understand the modern game in a way maybe you don't.

I'd wager a guess that some of you Dawson fans are like this: English in origin, never wanted Defoe sold, hated AVB from the start and think Harry was a genius. If only Jimmy Hill still presented match of the day you guys might be making a lot of sense.

Edit: tibsy well played getting there with the joke first

What a load of condescending horseshit.

 

[cjj]

I'd wager a guess that some of you Dawson fans are like this: English in origin, never wanted Defoe sold, hated AVB from the start and think Harry was a genius. If only Jimmy Hill still presented match of the day you guys might be making a lot of sense.

I never saw the point in Defoe for the last 3 seasons, despite scoring every 117 mins this season (based on mins per games) he spent most of those in a Harry Kane type substitution. I wanted him to go because I've always felt he was both undervalued at the club, and yet when he was it would be a roll of the dice as to whether he took the chance. (That might sound strange, but I feel that whilst possibly not being good enough, I also don't think he was ever given a proper chance).

I always liked AVB and, despite last season not being perhaps entertaining (aside from the AVB/Freund show on the touchline) I thought it was a great first season and come the summer I was worried he'd leave. It didn't work out, but I don't blame him for it - I think that the players, Baldini, board and some of the backroom staff should all shoulder responsibility (perhaps not equally, but in part) for how things broke down this season - the fact that nothing has changed without him (perhaps worse from a morale POV) suggests he was a victim of circumstances. I wish him luck and success.

I'll probably upset people if I discuss Harry, but I won't.

Here's the thing about Daws though - is he top 4 quality? No.

Bu does anyone put in a harder shift than him in most games? No. The people who will slam Daws for one bad pass will completely ignore the great blocks he'll do 2 mins later. Granted he has the propensity to slip and cock up in a vertonghen type way on occasion (vs Portsmouth, April 2010 FA Cup Semi ) but he's closer to what we need in the team than what we don't.

He was so close to blocking that first Eto'o goal too

 

[Spurs_Bear]

I'd wager a guess that some of you Dawson fans are like this: English in origin, never wanted Defoe sold, hated AVB from the start and think Harry was a genius. If only Jimmy Hill still presented match of the day you guys might be making a lot of sense.

I am English.

I think Dawson is done, Defoe was a ****. So was AVB. So was Jimmy Hill.

Shut up.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I never saw the point in Defoe for the last 3 seasons, despite scoring every 117 mins this season (based on mins per games) he spent most of those in a Harry Kane type substitution. I wanted him to go because I've always felt he was both undervalued at the club, and yet when he was it would be a roll of the dice as to whether he took the chance. (That might sound strange, but I feel that whilst possibly not being good enough, I also don't think he was ever given a proper chance).

I always liked AVB and, despite last season not being perhaps entertaining (aside from the AVB/Freund show on the touchline) I thought it was a great first season and come the summer I was worried he'd leave. It didn't work out, but I don't blame him for it - I think that the players, Baldini, board and some of the backroom staff should all shoulder responsibility (perhaps not equally, but in part) for how things broke down this season - the fact that nothing has changed without him (perhaps worse from a morale POV) suggests he was a victim of circumstances. I wish him luck and success.

I'll probably upset people if I discuss Harry, but I won't.

Here's the thing about Daws though - is he top 4 quality? No.

Bu does anyone put in a harder shift than him in most games? No. The people who will slam Daws for one bad pass will completely ignore the great blocks he'll do 2 mins later. Granted he has the propensity to slip and cock up in a vertonghen type way on occasion (vs Portsmouth, April 2010 FA Cup Semi ) but he's closer to what we need in the team than what we don't.

He was so close to blocking that first Eto'o goal too

Thing is, there probably are people that technically do put in a harder shift. I'd say both full backs are required to get up and down the whole pitch frequently, see more ball than the CB's, tackle, run and attempt the odd cross.

The CM's have to go from box to box and side to side, tackle, dribble, intercept, press the ball, pass accurately in a crowded area not just hump balls.

The wide players or wide forwards also have to get up and down the pitch, support both the attackers and full backs and provide game play in the middle of the park. They must press the opposition and they must try to create goals for others and score themselves.

Which really just leaves the striker and the goalkeeper. If it's Adebayor he'll drop deep and wide (both sides), challenge for headers and hold up the ball, probably cover more ground than a CB, probably see less ball but where he gets it will always be under pressure, unlike CB's who invariably have the job of tapping it wide, side or humping long (Dawson) often under no pressure. The CB's (well Dawson) rarely venture out of there band of pitch paling most of the game between the pen box and just before the halfway line, they may cover their own touchline but rarely venture to the other.

Even the other CB's put in harder shifts because they all come forward over the halfway line with the ball.

So that really leaves the goalkeeper. And now with Lloris rushing out like a sweeper every 5 minutes even that's a close call.

So with the possible exception of the substitute goalie, no-one puts in a harder shift.

 

[cjj]

Thing is, there probably are people that technically do put in a harder shift. I'd say both full backs are required to get up and down the whole pitch frequently, see more ball than the CB's, tackle, run and attempt the odd cross.

The CM's have to go from box to box and side to side, tackle, dribble, intercept, press the ball, pass accurately in a crowded area not just hump balls.

The wide players or wide forwards also have to get up and down the pitch, support both the attackers and full backs and provide game play in the middle of the park. They must press the opposition and they must try to create goals for others and score themselves.

Which really just leaves the striker and the goalkeeper. If it's Adebayor he'll drop deep and wide (both sides), challenge for headers and hold up the ball, probably cover more ground than a CB, probably see less ball but where he gets it will always be under pressure, unlike CB's who invariably have the job of tapping it wide, side or humping long (Dawson) often under no pressure. The CB's (well Dawson) rarely venture out of there band of pitch paling most of the game between the pen box and just before the halfway line, they may cover their own touchline but rarely venture to the other.

Even the other CB's put in harder shifts because they all come forward over the halfway line with the ball.

So that really leaves the goalkeeper. And now with Lloris rushing out like a sweeper every 5 minutes even that's a close call.

So with the possible exception of the substitute goalie, no-one puts in a harder shift.

Not tactically, I mean he has to work his tits off each and every game just to step up to the level people expect, with our more naturally skilled players it comes easier to them.

I think I prefer a player to be the best he can be every game, even if that's worse than another player making very little effort.

an uninspired Vertonghen can be a better defender than your average Dawson, but what Dawson does I appreciate more as a fan (effort, fighting spirit, giving 110%). Not specifically saying Vertonghen is uninspired, but just for comparative purposes.