Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[-Afri-Coy-]

What? So if a player wants Conte to go he is a cancer of the club, even though he slammed the entire squad in the media at the weekend, calling them selfish + has treated some individuals poorly this season (regarding playing time). It’s only natural that some will want him to go.

It doesn't matter what anyone says to you, all that matters is how you react.

If some harsh words and an expectation that you need to earn your place in the squad is all it takes for certain players to crumble and 'want him out", I don't want those players at the club.

These are grown men we're talking about here. And they're playing football, not fighting in a war.

They are not kids that need to be coddled and nurtured either.

The club has made it way to comfortable.

Accepting that the players are allowed to sway the board in terms of who is in charge is a very dangerous game to play.

 

[Japhet]

They don't, but I think it's fairly clear that the centre back situation has been a huge problem. We've seen at Liverpool how a top CB can change the team. Conte hasn't doen a good job but this defence is awful. And we only got Porro in Jan, having given Conte a kid he didn't want at RWB last summer.

True, the defence is awful, but it's got markedly worse since the transfer window imo. I think the way Conte sets up with 2 in CM just makes things worse though. There are gaps all over the place and when we play against 3 in CM we're chasing shadows. We can't cover the wide areas either when our WBs push so high up the pitch because our CMs can't move out wide without giving up even more space in the middle, and a whole load of that is because he's insisted on playing a woefully out of form Son. I don't see how getting 'the right players' would rectify any of that tbh. Those are all coaching and tactics issues.

 

[Rosco1984]

This club broke Conte. I'm not sure how any ambitious coach sees us as an exciting prospect, we might pay more, but in the long run, everyone fails due to Levy constantly meddling where he shouldn't. We are going nowhere with Levy.

At least we have a world-class training facility and stadium.

every club breaks Conte in his second season.

 

[FinnYid]

If it is Mason will he show loyalty to the ones that have failed previous managers?

His job would be to pick up the team he thinks delivers the best results, not to look punishment for however some have performed under nunojoseantonio tactics.

As for temp effect:

PL games:
Last 10 games of AVB, 14 points, 9 goals and 19 conceded. 1,4 points per game. Sherwood: 22 games, 42 games, 40 goals done, 30 conceded. 1,91 points per game.

Last 10 games of Jose. 14 points, 18 scored and 15 conceded. 1,4 points per game. Mason 6 games, 12 points, 14 scored, 7 conceded. 2 points per game

Almost any temp that can lift the spirits a bit will improve results temporarily. You can call Mason tactically inept, but seeing games like Milan at home, he can hardly be more tactically inept than Conte? His system might have won trophies in the past, but that tells very little about tactical ability.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

every club breaks Conte in his second season.

Juventus has entered the chat

 

[Led Revolver]

His job would be to pick up the team he thinks delivers the best results, not to look punishment for however some have performed under nunojoseantonio tactics.

As for temp effect:

PL games:
Last 10 games of AVB, 14 points, 9 goals and 19 conceded. 1,4 points per game. Sherwood: 22 games, 42 games, 40 goals done, 30 conceded. 1,91 points per game.

Last 10 games of Jose. 14 points, 18 scored and 15 conceded. 1,4 points per game. Mason 6 games, 12 points, 14 scored, 7 conceded. 2 points per game

Almost any temp that can lift the spirits a bit will improve results temporarily. You can call Mason tactically inept, but seeing games like Milan at home, he can hardly be more tactically inept than Conte? His system might have won trophies in the past, but that tells very little about tactical ability.

..and in winning those trophies, you don’t think he ever needed to make tactical changes in order to get the points on the board to win those titles!?

It wasn’t long ago that @Trix shared some stats where Conte at us topped the amount of points after a certain number of games.. more than Pep, more than Klopp. Top.

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

Juventus has entered the chat

And been briskly taken away in handcuffs

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

And been briskly taken away in handcuffs

I did NOT say legally.

 

[nailsy]

I am not sure what mason did in his first tenure, he took the defensive handbrake off but seemed v tactical inept.

I think we should allow him a clean slate. Last time he was probably thrown in at the dep end, and was learning on the job. This time he's had a couple of years to reflect on what happened previously and to learn from that experience. He's obviously not who you'd choose to be in charge of the team at this stage of the season, but I think most of the players will know that he'll put the club first in any decisions that he makes.

 

[Trix]

Given players he never wanted can only be directed towards the DoF.... Hence DoF I believe should be on his bike as well.

Lol how do you work that out? Levy signs all the cheques, ALL of them

..and in winning those trophies, you don’t think he ever needed to make tactical changes in order to get the points on the board to win those titles!?

It wasn’t long ago that @Trix shared some stats where Conte at us topped the amount of points after a certain number of games.. more than Pep, more than Klopp. Top.

It's the same issue now with Conte as was with Jose and Poch. It's immaterial looking at stats and points per game. He's lost too many players now, and as such his job has become untenable. It's a sorry state of affairs that the players have the power to do this to manager after manager, but it gets to a point where there is no point in carrying on because everything is so toxic.

 

[FinnYid]

..and in winning those trophies, you don’t think he ever needed to make tactical changes in order to get the points on the board to win those titles!?

More like he won leagues by sticking to the plan, same as he has done here. His terrible record at cups / Europe rather points out at tactical inability. Or if you want to be polite, strong will at sticking to his plan.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

No, openly, behind closed doors keeps it conveniently private, this has opened a huge can of worms that Levy cannot ignore, it puts the pressure on and takes the comfort zone away.

Generally ,i'd agree that such criticisms are best left between the manager and the players but this wasn't about one or two games, this was about 20 years of failure and the acceptance of that. It needed doing.

Completely agree, now if /when he fires Conte a lot of the focus will be on Levy and the players which is were it should be. If you fire a manger for questioning a clubs desire (and even if he said afterwards it was about the players there is very little doubt in my mind it was also aimed at the club) then you have to have a very good contingency plan in place. If we appoint Mason until the end of the season and we start dropping down the league then surely the knives will have to come out for Levy from those around and above him.

In general firing Conte is nothing other then complete failure on Levy's part. It actually amazes me that it has come to this so soon. I didn't expect him to last long, which was a big issue with this appointment in general, but this is crazy.

 

[wrd]

A blessed relief, for me.

The Jose-Nuno-Tony C era has been a real test for the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium parishioners.

At this stage I don’t actually care about winning the Carabao, first and foremost I just want to be excited by the football again and then go from there.

I've always been in the, enjoy the journey not the outcome camp but I thought that because of how Conte's team set up that we would get the best of both worlds as his Inter team played some great counter attacking football. Who knew Barella, Eriksen, Brozovic, Bastoni, De Vrij and Skriniar may have been contributing factors .

I think it'd be wise to get a manager whose philosophy means their style can at least be exciting in the attempt as we should know by now, that the manager will have to work with what they have and that can vary in quality in extreme ways. Though and I might be asking for a lot here, I do hope our next manager realises they can change style, that yes be on the front foot and blow teams away where we have the superior quality to do so but that you can adapt to play in a style that we've shown yields results against the likes of city. I find the one size fits all approach absurd tbh, Ten Hag vs Liverpool springs to mind.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

If it is Mason will he show loyalty to the ones that have failed previous managers?

Considering it's a short term deal if it happens and he will be around after summer I very much doubt he will be doing anything to upset anyone. I wouldn't expect much boat rocking on his part.

 

[TheDoc]

I know everyone loves the idea of Poch coming back; but he honestly had one of the best spurs teams on paper and didn’t win anything.

kane
Son
Eriksen
Dembele
Rose
Trippier
Walker
Lloris
Toby
Jan
Peak - Dele
Wanyama before his injury!

this is when both Davies and Dier were both bench warmers who now start every game. I’m sorry but if Antonio inherited a squad like that he would have won a trophy. I’m not saying Antonio is the answer but Poch isn’t either.

conte had to manage one of the most shocking defences I’ve seen at Tottenham since the 90s.

Worth remembering though that Poch didn't inherit that squad either. He built it and improved the players.

Also this whole obsession with "what have people won" is ridiculous. It's such an absolute.

Everyone praises Brighton but sorry - what have Brighton won? They must be a terribly run club with a terrible manager.

Poch took us from feeling lucky if we finished 4th to being GENUINE challengers for the league and Champions League. There was a time I thought we could beat absolutely everyone. Now I dread every game.

He's not even my first choice but so many people have been brainwashed by Talksport and awful football banter social media profiles where it's win a trophy = you're amazing, don't win a trophy = you're a failure.

*I was an hour behind on the thread and see a few people replied with similar, sorry for the repitition.

 

[wrd]

Lol how do you work that out? Levy signs all the cheques, ALL of them

It's the same issue now with Conte as was with Jose and Poch. It's immaterial looking at stats and points per game. He's lost too many players now, and as such his job has become untenable. It's a sorry state of affairs that the players have the power to do this to manager after manager, but it gets to a point where there is no point in carrying on because everything is so toxic.

It's incredible to me that the players haven't looked introspectively and gone, well we were the ones who wanted Poch gone, do we not have a responsibility for what we've experienced after, that perhaps we made a mistake.

In the last 3/4 years, we have turned into Chelsea but without that pesky success to go with it.

 

[FinnYid]

He's lost too many players now, and as such his job has become untenable. It's a sorry state of affairs that the players have the power to do this to manager after manager

It's same on any given professional football club in the world (moreover it's same on any given business that relies heavily on individual abilities of employees).

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

the knives will have to come out for Levy from those around and above him.

Why? Only 1 person above Levy, and he does not care about sporting results.

Levy does not answer to the board, he appointed the board…

 

[Led Revolver]

It’s fucking sad @Trix.

I keep going over the Bastoni situation in my head. A Spence less and spending the £50m that was actually allocated for a defender. Zaniolo instead of having Danjuma forced on him and I think things could’ve been so different.

 

[TOLBINY]

It doesn't matter what anyone says to you, all that matters is how you react.

If some harsh words and an expectation that you need to earn your place in the squad is all it takes for certain players to crumble and 'want him out", I don't want those players at the club.

These are grown men we're talking about here. And they're playing football, not fighting in a war.

They are not kids that need to be coddled and nurtured either.

The club has made it way to comfortable.

Accepting that the players are allowed to sway the board in terms of who is in charge is a very dangerous game to play.

You are spot on - but it is far easier, quicker and cheaper to replace the manager than it is a whole bunch of players.