Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[olliec]

More thoughts in answer to some of the more extreme statements. (in my view)

-Conte is still a top top coach. World class and he will go on and win plenty.
-Our playing squad has had too much upheaval to say it's just the same as under Poch.
-We need top class defensive reinforcements but they could and should be doing far better. That's on them AND the coaching staff.
-its possible to hold more than one thing accountable at the same time. By saying Conte is at fault you aren't beytraying the anti Daniel Levy case because the latter has loads to answer for and is the root of our issues.
-Our players in my view aren't unique in their behaviour. They're spoilt millionaires playing football for a living and they will all respond differently to man management styles. It's upto the coach and his team to manage that and get the best out of each one. Otherwise you could probably design a computer program to map out tactics.
- We are one managerial appointment away from either continuing this mess or maybe getting lucky and finding a guy who can fit the right communication with the right tactics and showing us a little bit of hope.

And finally ....
-Sometimes people and situations don't mesh well together. Conte who has alway been an overly emotional and a league emphasis based manager, was always going to struggle because we won't spend the money to go for the league and finishing fourth whilst our chairman is happy with it , Conte isn't and neither are we. This of course causes him to lose his shit and we get frustrated as not only do we hate the league form but we get knocked out of the cups due to his struggles with them.
It doesn't mean he is a bad manager or that were doomed! , But simply we have tried the shoe on and it isn't fitting right. Levy ain't going anywhere so we as fans have to hope the next shoe we try on will fit.

No shoe has fitted for 20 years!

 

[Shanks]

I’ve no doubt Levy wants the team to be successful on the pitch, after all that is where money would really start coming in, so I can’t get on board with the whole he isn’t interested in success on the pitch.

just the how we go about getting success which has been problematic, I guess managing money/debt/purchases isn’t all that easy and probably why only a handful of clubs have that success we want.

what is frustrating is the stance that our managers have been bought players - when we have ITK highlighting that these have predominantly been club purchases through offers or opportunities rather than getting who our managers are actully after - go back to the redknapp era and the likes of Suarez etc , willian under (I can’t remember)… throw in the reputation of levy being hard to negaotiate with too, so we kinda end up going round in this cycle of trying things and hoping it works, rather than setting out a plan/strategy - that’s where leadership has to take responsibility, in any organisation

 

[Trees]

Conte will 100% win silverware at club level again.

In an easier league

 

[cozzo]

Conte will 100% win silverware at club level again.

He could have won them here if he selected right and coached well. Shouldn't be losing to Nottingham Forest, Sheffield United and AC Milan

 

[spursfan77]

True or not, managers don’t come back from this position. How it’s unraveled so much from august is crazy really.

 

[Impspur1]

True or not, managers don’t come back from this position. How it’s unraveled so much from august is crazy really.

As they draw straws to decide what order to line up outside Levy’s door…. State of it honestly. Those players have see off a club legend in Poch and 2 of the most successful mangers of all time.they should hang there heads in shame

 

[Dov67]

I’ve no doubt Levy wants the team to be successful on the pitch, after all that is where money would really start coming in, so I can’t get on board with the whole he isn’t interested in success on the pitch.

just the how we go about getting success which has been problematic, I guess managing money/debt/purchases isn’t all that easy and probably why only a handful of clubs have that success we want.

what is frustrating is the stance that our managers have been bought players - when we have ITK highlighting that these have predominantly been club purchases through offers or opportunities rather than getting who our managers are actully after - go back to the redknapp era and the likes of Suarez etc , willian under (I can’t remember)… throw in the reputation of levy being hard to negaotiate with too, so we kinda end up going round in this cycle of trying things and hoping it works, rather than setting out a plan/strategy - that’s where leadership has to take responsibility, in any organisation

Why? Why do you have no doubt?

I think Levy has set a ceiling on our ambition and its to maximise revenue for a given financial outlay or risk - translated that means he wants the revenue that comes from top 4 with the minimum possible outlay. This goes some to way to explaining his 2 of his last 3 manager hires - much much cheaper to hire an elite manager than to fund an elite squad of players.

For me and most others I would define success as trophies, whereas I dont think Levy gives two shits whether we win anything or not. If we were to ever win something, i’m sure he’d be very happy but it’s not a big deal for him - champions league money is the only trophy he is interested in. Why else would you fire the one manager more likely than any other to get the better of a vastly superior Abu Dhabi team 6 days before a cup final and put a 28 year old rookie up against Pep Guadiola?

When Levy says he wants success at THFC, its a bit like me saying I want to run a sub 3 hour marathon in 2023, and then declaring that I wont train, even for a minute and my diet this year will consist of pizza and donuts. That’s how credible Levy declaration of ambitions are.……..or rather his ambitions are simply different to ours.

Conte is not by any means blameless in this but the heart of every problem at the club comes down to Levy/ENIC. I could also say the the players, but ENIC is the reason those players are there, some well beyond their best days. Levy is the reason for example why we have signed only two CB‘s since 2017, during a period in which Toby and Jan have left us, and one of those players being Jo Rodon (because he was cheaper than Skrinniar).

Sorry for the partial rant, but whatever anyone’s opinion of Conte, he isnt IMHO the problem at this club

 

[fecka]

A controversial opinion or thought process, perhaps, but I'm wondering if Son & Kane are possibly major culprits in terms of the team culture.
Everyone is quick to blame our weak mentality on the likes of Dier & Davies who aren't and rarely have been important pieces of the team, and they are the only two remaining in the squad apart from Son, Hugo & Kane who have gotten significant game time across Poch, Mou, Nuno & Conte.

People will point to Kane being a leader because he's England's captain, but what I remember are the cringe team talks from All or Nothing when Hugo was out and all the times he's been completely invisible during important games for Spurs and England. I can't remember the last time I saw him go around on the pitch trying to light a fire in the bellies of our players during a game. It's like he often just disappears whenever things get tough.
I remember the ITK that he's the one that eventually got Poch fired after going to Levy because Poch had "burned out" the squad with his intense training sessions. The ones I believe haven't been pressing properly in years under our recent managers despite their physical prowess are Kane & Son.
The only ones who seemingly couldn't cope and collapsed early during Conte's summer sessions were Kane & Son.

They are both incredible footballers in their own right and are our two talismans, but worse teams than us have won titles in the last decade, and while we've had mistakes from the likes of Dier, Sissoko & Davies in important games I can't seem to remember any games we've gone out in recent years where we haven't been completely toothless in attack despite our world-class attackers.

This is not me saying they are the main problem, what I'm saying is they might be just as big a part of it as Dier, Davies & Sanchez, and all of those who say that "the weak-willed players" are the ones that have been letting the club down, are you really willing to do what it takes if they are or are they given a free pass because of their ability? If they are given a free pass, isn't that what potentially creates the kind of weak mentality in the first place?

 

[spursfan1991]

No shoe has fitted for 20 years!

Nor have the gloves

 

[Ron Burgundy]

True or not, managers don’t come back from this position. How it’s unraveled so much from august is crazy really.

I'd think the same if I was them - he should have been kicked out by now. The only debate is the severance package. Otherwise he should just go. He doesn't want to be here, we don't want him. Let's just move on

 

[coy-spurs1882]

No shoe has fitted for 20 years!

we don't even have the feet to wear shoes

 

[the shelf]

Why? Why do you have no doubt?

I think Levy has set a ceiling on our ambition and its to maximise revenue for a given financial outlay or risk - translated that means he wants the revenue that comes from top 4 with the minimum possible outlay. This goes some to way to explaining his 2 of his last 3 manager hires - much much cheaper to hire an elite manager than to fund an elite squad of players.

For me and most others I would define success as trophies, whereas I dont think Levy gives two shits whether we win anything or not. If we were to ever win something, i’m sure he’d be very happy but it’s not a big deal for him - champions league money is the only trophy he is interested in. Why else would you fire the one manager more likely than any other to get the better of a vastly superior Abu Dhabi team 6 days before a cup final and put a 28 year old rookie up against Pep Guadiola?

When Levy says he wants success at THFC, its a bit like me saying I want to run a sub 3 hour marathon in 2023, and then declaring that I wont train, even for a minute and my diet this year will consist of pizza and donuts. That’s how credible Levy declaration of ambitions are.……..or rather his ambitions are simply different to ours.

Conte is not by any means blameless in this but the heart of every problem at the club comes down to Levy/ENIC. I could also say the the players, but ENIC is the reason those players are there, some well beyond their best days. Levy is the reason for example why we have signed only two CB‘s since 2017, during a period in which Toby and Jan have left us, and one of those players being Jo Rodon (because he was cheaper than Skrinniar).

Sorry for the partial rant, but whatever anyone’s opinion of Conte, he isnt IMHO the problem at this club

Spot on - the mere fact that he sacked Mourinho a week before a cup final because the cost to sack him if he won a cup would be greater just about sums up his level of ambition.

As long as we are in the conversation for top 4 that is all Levy is interested in - an illusion of ambition, as Joe Cole rightly pointed out.

 

[yojambo]

What a difference in emotion from how I felt after Norwich away last season.

I thought we were going to be a machine of a team this year. Yet here we are again, limped out of all the cups and facing a fight for 4th to 'Save the season'. We've seen it all before, false dawns etc.

It's all just so tiresome.

 

[Dov67]

What a difference in emotion from how I felt after Norwich away last season.

I thought we were going to be a machine of a team this year. Yet here we are again, limped out of all the cups and facing a fight for 4th to 'Save the season'. We've seen it all before, false dawns etc.

It's all just so tiresome.

And by contrast we were laughing at having screwed the goons out of 4th spot. Bloody hell, i hate football. From now on I’ll just focus on the Tour de France

 

[eViL]

I hope they offer Conte a new contract.

Not for the football. It's been a hard watch this season.

Not for the Trophies.

Just to put some of these players in their place.

If it's Kane, then so be it, but I think some of you should be looking a bit further back in the formation. There's a few players that have barely laid a boot or won a header this season whilst fooling statisticians by running around like headless chickens.

We've all been asking why these players keep playing. All of us.

Conte is a mardy arse but he's not anti-Tottenham. He's anti-loser.

 

[midoshairband]

And by contrast we were laughing at having screwed the goons out of 4th spot. Bloody hell, i hate football. From now on I’ll just focus on the Tour de France

even that has it's ups and downs pal.

 

[spursfan1991]

I'd think the same if I was them - he should have been kicked out by now. The only debate is the severance package. Otherwise he should just go. He doesn't want to be here, we don't want him. Let's just move on

I knew your name sounded familiar. The following video is how Conte will say farewell to Spurs.

 

[Clockspur]

I’ve no doubt Levy wants the team to be successful on the pitch, after all that is where money would really start coming in, so I can’t get on board with the whole he isn’t interested in success on the pitch.

just the how we go about getting success which has been problematic, I guess managing money/debt/purchases isn’t all that easy and probably why only a handful of clubs have that success we want.

what is frustrating is the stance that our managers have been bought players - when we have ITK highlighting that these have predominantly been club purchases through offers or opportunities rather than getting who our managers are actully after - go back to the redknapp era and the likes of Suarez etc , willian under (I can’t remember)… throw in the reputation of levy being hard to negaotiate with too, so we kinda end up going round in this cycle of trying things and hoping it works, rather than setting out a plan/strategy - that’s where leadership has to take responsibility, in any organisation

Levy is interested in winning the league and CL

Levy has less than zero interest in the FA cup/League cup/Europa because there is zero financial incentive when compared to finishing fourth

if we finished fifth but won the FA cup/League cup/Europa we would earn less than just finishing fourth - hence why Levy couldn’t give a sugary shit

 

[eddiebailey]

I half expected us to go on a run after being knocked out of the FA Cup and the Champions League. It is rotating his squad to compete in multiple competitions that Conte seems to struggle with. Our turnaround last season owed a lot to this. It also owed a lot to the signing of Bentacur and Kuluveski. I am always sceptical about the miracle working ability of coaches but the change of system under Conte did succeed in getting the best out of Dier, Davies and Doherty in particular.

For whatever reason (and part of that reason may be Conte) this season the signings haven’t really worked out and Conte doesn’t seem to be getting the best out of anyone.

I suspect that some of the players are fed up with the tactics and the failure of those tactics to translate into performances, and it may be the case that this has reached the point of becoming self fulfilling prophecy. The players are chaffing under a straight jacket and the belief just isn’t there anymore. Conte’s own lack of commitment can’t have helped.

My guess is that his going would come as a relief to the squad. If Mason took over to the end of the season, made a few tweaks to Conte’s system and gave the players a bit more freedom, he might be able to get a bit more out of them, and go on a little run. It seems worth a try.

Whatever Conte says I don’t believe that as soon as a player signs for Spurs they develop a bad mentality. But players are human and respond to the situation they find themselves in and how they’re treated.

 

[parj]

Pep came 3rd in his first season at City, got knocked out of the CL in the round of 16, League cup in the 4th round and FA cup in the semis

And since then he has pretty much been the team to beat.