Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[littlewilly]

At the moment we're a bit sloppy, but when it all clicks I love the way we play, fast, direct and clinical. I think there's a very lazy narrative that we don't press and wait for the counter, but we choose when to press and when to sit back, we've seen goals that start from Hugo we just move the ball quicker rather than taking 30 passes.

City can look amazing at times, but the death by a thousand passes can be really boring to watch.

Well said. Have you noticed that Bentancur, once or twice a game, roars forward to harass the defence. Against Leicester he got his reward.

 

[spursfan77]

Absolutely bang on! And this bit at the end is the worst you just know they’re waiting to be ‘proven right’, “I told you we weren’t playing well under conte and we’d lose eventually” or “see the football is shit and now the results match it, after one loss in about 10 games” , it’s pathetic it really is, it’s entitled and it’s certain people never being satisfied.

“I want better free flowing football, I want to be entertained”, as you said, we’ve had that with Ardiles,Hoddle,Jol,Redknapp,Poch all at times had us playing “the spurs way” and what was the end result… we win nothing and people eventually want the manager out because they’re not good enough tactically in the big games or the players aren’t fit enough or we aren’t consistent enough, or we aren’t solid enough to win games, or we fail at the final hurdle in big games or semi finals or finals etc etc.

Sure Conte isn’t perfect and sure this is a forum where fans should be able to voice there opinion on the game, the tactics, the performances etc etc but honestly some of the entitled, negative bullshit in the match threads especially and in this thread is embarrassing and there are certainly a swathe of our ‘fans’ who will never be happy and frankly the glass is always or at least very often ‘half full’.

Maybe it’s the era I’ve supported Spurs during I don’t know but 30+ years ago we were a mess, we were in financial ruin, our stadium was dated, we had no plan on or off the pitch, we won nothing, we finished mid table or worse and our ‘rivals’ went from strength to strength and left us behind. Since then we’ve seen managers and players come and go and yes the bald one of whom we don’t speak off has frustrated us at times but overall the club has been transformed.

We took a step forwards with Jol and then with Redknapp and then with Poch and we entered into the big time with Jose even if he was arguably past it and a bad fit and now we have one of the possibly best 3 managers in the world, we are building a fantastic squad, we are unbeaten, joint 2nd, Gd of +11 after 7 games, scored 18 goals and 6 in our last match but no it’s all doom and gloomy the football isn’t nice and the results won’t last… ? ? ? ? ? they might do, they might not but it’s all a process in an upward direction so why some have to look at it so negatively ?‍ I could flip it around and say think about how well we will be doing if this is how many points we have when we’ve not even been playing well and are not out of 2nd gear in most games.

It’s clear Conte is world class and it’s clear he is building something. I completely got it when everyone was apoplectic about the football under Nuno because it obviously was going to end in tears, there was no plan, we were having 0 shots a game literally and he and the squad looked like they were seriously not enjoying themselves.

This is so so different as explained before and we’ve just scored 6 bloody goals , 6!! Sometimes in the past under managers we’ve struggled to score 1, “oh but the performance wasn’t very good, the result flattered us”, maybe it did but open your eyes some of you we just scored 6 bloody goals stop moaning for gods sake ?

We have it so good right now, why not bloody enjoy it.
COYS

I couldn't have put it across as well as that. Great post.

I am thankful. Wouldn't mind him agreeing that option for another year with the club though during this international window. It seems like the perfect time to do it. Or wait until the World Cup and do it all low key.

 

[Metalhead]

Absolutely bang on! And this bit at the end is the worst you just know they’re waiting to be ‘proven right’, “I told you we weren’t playing well under conte and we’d lose eventually” or “see the football is shit and now the results match it, after one loss in about 10 games” , it’s pathetic it really is, it’s entitled and it’s certain people never being satisfied.

“I want better free flowing football, I want to be entertained”, as you said, we’ve had that with Ardiles,Hoddle,Jol,Redknapp,Poch all at times had us playing “the spurs way” and what was the end result… we win nothing and people eventually want the manager out because they’re not good enough tactically in the big games or the players aren’t fit enough or we aren’t consistent enough, or we aren’t solid enough to win games, or we fail at the final hurdle in big games or semi finals or finals etc etc.

Sure Conte isn’t perfect and sure this is a forum where fans should be able to voice there opinion on the game, the tactics, the performances etc etc but honestly some of the entitled, negative bullshit in the match threads especially and in this thread is embarrassing and there are certainly a swathe of our ‘fans’ who will never be happy and frankly the glass is always or at least very often ‘half full’.

Maybe it’s the era I’ve supported Spurs during I don’t know but 30+ years ago we were a mess, we were in financial ruin, our stadium was dated, we had no plan on or off the pitch, we won nothing, we finished mid table or worse and our ‘rivals’ went from strength to strength and left us behind. Since then we’ve seen managers and players come and go and yes the bald one of whom we don’t speak off has frustrated us at times but overall the club has been transformed.

We took a step forwards with Jol and then with Redknapp and then with Poch and we entered into the big time with Jose even if he was arguably past it and a bad fit and now we have one of the possibly best 3 managers in the world, we are building a fantastic squad, we are unbeaten, joint 2nd, Gd of +11 after 7 games, scored 18 goals and 6 in our last match but no it’s all doom and gloomy the football isn’t nice and the results won’t last… ? ? ? ? ? they might do, they might not but it’s all a process in an upward direction so why some have to look at it so negatively ?‍ I could flip it around and say think about how well we will be doing if this is how many points we have when we’ve not even been playing well and are not out of 2nd gear in most games.

It’s clear Conte is world class and it’s clear he is building something. I completely got it when everyone was apoplectic about the football under Nuno because it obviously was going to end in tears, there was no plan, we were having 0 shots a game literally and he and the squad looked like they were seriously not enjoying themselves.

This is so so different as explained before and we’ve just scored 6 bloody goals , 6!! Sometimes in the past under managers we’ve struggled to score 1, “oh but the performance wasn’t very good, the result flattered us”, maybe it did but open your eyes some of you we just scored 6 bloody goals stop moaning for gods sake ?

We have it so good right now, why not bloody enjoy it.
COYS

Brilliant post that.

 

[Trix]

Absolutely bang on! And this bit at the end is the worst you just know they’re waiting to be ‘proven right’, “I told you we weren’t playing well under conte and we’d lose eventually” or “see the football is shit and now the results match it, after one loss in about 10 games” , it’s pathetic it really is, it’s entitled and it’s certain people never being satisfied.

“I want better free flowing football, I want to be entertained”, as you said, we’ve had that with Ardiles,Hoddle,Jol,Redknapp,Poch all at times had us playing “the spurs way” and what was the end result… we win nothing and people eventually want the manager out because they’re not good enough tactically in the big games or the players aren’t fit enough or we aren’t consistent enough, or we aren’t solid enough to win games, or we fail at the final hurdle in big games or semi finals or finals etc etc.

Sure Conte isn’t perfect and sure this is a forum where fans should be able to voice there opinion on the game, the tactics, the performances etc etc but honestly some of the entitled, negative bullshit in the match threads especially and in this thread is embarrassing and there are certainly a swathe of our ‘fans’ who will never be happy and frankly the glass is always or at least very often ‘half full’.

Maybe it’s the era I’ve supported Spurs during I don’t know but 30+ years ago we were a mess, we were in financial ruin, our stadium was dated, we had no plan on or off the pitch, we won nothing, we finished mid table or worse and our ‘rivals’ went from strength to strength and left us behind. Since then we’ve seen managers and players come and go and yes the bald one of whom we don’t speak off has frustrated us at times but overall the club has been transformed.

We took a step forwards with Jol and then with Redknapp and then with Poch and we entered into the big time with Jose even if he was arguably past it and a bad fit and now we have one of the possibly best 3 managers in the world, we are building a fantastic squad, we are unbeaten, joint 2nd, Gd of +11 after 7 games, scored 18 goals and 6 in our last match but no it’s all doom and gloomy the football isn’t nice and the results won’t last… ? ? ? ? ? they might do, they might not but it’s all a process in an upward direction so why some have to look at it so negatively ?‍ I could flip it around and say think about how well we will be doing if this is how many points we have when we’ve not even been playing well and are not out of 2nd gear in most games.

It’s clear Conte is world class and it’s clear he is building something. I completely got it when everyone was apoplectic about the football under Nuno because it obviously was going to end in tears, there was no plan, we were having 0 shots a game literally and he and the squad looked like they were seriously not enjoying themselves.

This is so so different as explained before and we’ve just scored 6 bloody goals , 6!! Sometimes in the past under managers we’ve struggled to score 1, “oh but the performance wasn’t very good, the result flattered us”, maybe it did but open your eyes some of you we just scored 6 bloody goals stop moaning for gods sake ?

We have it so good right now, why not bloody enjoy it.
COYS

I just laughed at a poster the other day who was annoyed at the way we are playing and said..... "this is just Jose football with us winning and scoring a lot more goals."

 

[C0YS]

I wonder if Udogie will get the same treatment as Spence when he turns up. I hope not. Reminds me a bit of Poch who took ages to give players their chance while other teams seemed to do just fine dropping them in the deep end.

I doubt it Udogie is performing at a higher level in a stronger league. I actually think we didn't expect him to be at the level he currently is. Spence was bought with the future in mind. It's not a suprise that he is where he is and it's not really a concern.

 

[C0YS]

Well said. Have you noticed that Bentancur, once or twice a game, roars forward to harass the defence. Against Leicester he got his reward.

More than once or twice a game. Closer to a dozen times a game.

 

[Guntz]

We're winning games and still haven't really clicked as a team yet.

That's a good sign to me.

 

[mpickard2087]

Everyone likes and lives for the moments – goals, the important attacking plays, etc.

The truth is though that about 98% of your average football match – win, lose, or draw, scoring 1 goal or 10 - is boring, mundane, uneventful. Call it what you will.

There is an element of what defines teams/managers/approaches being how they approach this “dead time” in the game.

Some like to control, even kill, chunks of the game by being in possession of the ball and not letting the other team have it.

Some like to control, even kill, chunks of the game by not having possession of the ball and stifling proceedings with their defensive work.

Some teams even try to eliminate (as much as possible) these passages all together, either by being heavily focused on fast transitions, or because they’re some open free-wheeling end to end Redknapp-style football team.

Sometimes, some game situations, you’re forced into a certain pattern of play, whether you like it or not. Sometimes you play exceptionally well, and/or your opposition collapses, on the day and you can have more “moments” than the norm.

The boring meat and drink stuff also heavily defines fans and their views I’d suggest also. Everyone has their own tastes about how it should be done. But my main point would be this: I know a lot of people complain that some fans are never happy, or bemoan that modern fans are obsessed with possession/stats, and to some extent that is true….. But I don’t think it is that hard to understand tbh. If you think back to as a child and just discovering football, your first basic want, before even scoring a goal, is to be involved and get lots of touches of the ball. I don’t think that changes much for your grown up fan – the vast vast majority will have a basic, primeval, primary instinct of football is that they want their team to have the ball. So any approach, effective or not, that spends large spells of the game doing the opposite is always going to be met with unease. It is inevitable.

 

[Trix]

Everyone likes and lives for the moments – goals, the important attacking plays, etc.

The truth is though that about 98% of your average football match – win, lose, or draw, scoring 1 goal or 10 - is boring, mundane, uneventful. Call it what you will.

There is an element of what defines teams/managers/approaches being how they approach this “dead time” in the game.

Some like to control, even kill, chunks of the game by being in possession of the ball and not letting the other team have it.

Some like to control, even kill, chunks of the game by not having possession of the ball and stifling proceedings with their defensive work.

Some teams even try to eliminate (as much as possible) these passages all together, either by being heavily focused on fast transitions, or because they’re some open free-wheeling end to end Redknapp-style football team.

Sometimes, some game situations, you’re forced into a certain pattern of play, whether you like it or not. Sometimes you play exceptionally well, and/or your opposition collapses, on the day and you can have more “moments” than the norm.

The boring meat and drink stuff also heavily defines fans and their views I’d suggest also. Everyone has their own tastes about how it should be done. But my main point would be this: I know a lot of people complain that some fans are never happy, or bemoan that modern fans are obsessed with possession/stats, and to some extent that is true….. But I don’t think it is that hard to understand tbh. If you think back to as a child and just discovering football, your first basic want, before even scoring a goal, is to be involved and get lots of touches of the ball. I don’t think that changes much for your grown up fan – the vast vast majority will have a basic, primeval, primary instinct of football is that they want their team to have the ball. So any approach, effective or not, that spends large spells of the game doing the opposite is always going to be met with unease. It is inevitable.

That's all great but as you grow up you realise that football(just like life) isn't that simple. I mean if every team played the same way, then the team with the best players pretty much wins on that basis alone.

 

[WiganSpur]

I'm still concerned by some of our performances this season and we can't just ignore it. It's hard to know at this point if the performances are going to start improving to go along with results (or perhaps we might get unlucky for a while), or if we're about to go on a bad run to end any statistical anomalies.

What I will say though is this is very much different to Nuno's early weeks here. Just look at the XG stats to see things really aren't that bad even if we're not passing the eye test right now. We're 3rd in the league on expected points, although Liverpool and Brighton who are just behind us on that measure have a game in hand on us.

Arsenal away is an acid test for us, it's going to be very interesting to see whether Arsenal's fluid attack bamboozles our so far fairly solid defence or whether their defence will fail to cope against what can be a lethal counter attacking side. Unfortunately the only evidence we have so far in Chelsea away suggests the former might happen. We were ultimately very lucky to come away with a draw there.

 

[Rosco1984]

The "he'll win a trophy" stuff didn't strike me as truthful when it was said about Mourinho and it doesn't really strike me as truthful now. You're basically dismissing the actual watching of the games and deciding whether you enjoyed it based on the final whistle, which seems like all the fun of counting beans because at the end of the day maybe you'll have more beans than your neighbour.

Seems absurd to be critical of setup in a game where we scored six goals but it's reasonable for fans to wonder why we're passively sitting back, particularly when the opposition was clearly so vulnerable.

I agreed with this under Jose, Hated the way we played in fact despised that year and a half two years it was garbage pure garbage and I'm glad it ended. But Conte doesn't play that way at all. We don't press all the while no but we do at times in matches when its right to, we don't dominate the ball for the sake of it no. But I don't in anyway hate watching our football now in fact I love it absolutely everything we do is done with purpose and every pass is urgent and meant to hurt the opponent. Yes this means that sometimes we lose the ball and have to wait to get it back but in general (obviously there are exceptions when we don't play well enough) but most of the time we eventually start to create space in the final third and we are clinical and keep putting the ball into the areas of the pitch that hurts the opposition, its just a shame Emerson is in that space sometimes.

 

[cusop]

If you can imagine a concertina its how he sets our discipline the payers a move in harmony supporting each position, I can imagine training is often like going to school, they pay well at times and it loos great then it falls apart at which point he compresses the concertina and restarts the tune. Im not sure if it was sonny's 2nd or third goal but we were pressing and pressuring there 18 yard o and we recycled the ball and it went back to the halfway line "there was an audible groan from the south stand and then we attacked again having drawn them out and son struck, the groans turned to ecstasy as the concertina compressed again this time forward and ruthlessly

 

[C0YS]

Thif

Everyone likes and lives for the moments – goals, the important attacking plays, etc.

The truth is though that about 98% of your average football match – win, lose, or draw, scoring 1 goal or 10 - is boring, mundane, uneventful. Call it what you will.

There is an element of what defines teams/managers/approaches being how they approach this “dead time” in the game.

Some like to control, even kill, chunks of the game by being in possession of the ball and not letting the other team have it.

Some like to control, even kill, chunks of the game by not having possession of the ball and stifling proceedings with their defensive work.

Some teams even try to eliminate (as much as possible) these passages all together, either by being heavily focused on fast transitions, or because they’re some open free-wheeling end to end Redknapp-style football team.

Sometimes, some game situations, you’re forced into a certain pattern of play, whether you like it or not. Sometimes you play exceptionally well, and/or your opposition collapses, on the day and you can have more “moments” than the norm.

The boring meat and drink stuff also heavily defines fans and their views I’d suggest also. Everyone has their own tastes about how it should be done. But my main point would be this: I know a lot of people complain that some fans are never happy, or bemoan that modern fans are obsessed with possession/stats, and to some extent that is true….. But I don’t think it is that hard to understand tbh. If you think back to as a child and just discovering football, your first basic want, before even scoring a goal, is to be involved and get lots of touches of the ball. I don’t think that changes much for your grown up fan – the vast vast majority will have a basic, primeval, primary instinct of football is that they want their team to have the ball. So any approach, effective or not, that spends large spells of the game doing the opposite is always going to be met with unease. It is inevitable.

This is a good post, and is true for some, but some fans would then complain about all the sideways passing.

I don't actually mind people having issues on the way we play. But I know that it was a lot more fun in many ways when we were shit. Now that we are better the bar is much higher for people to feel good about football and there is a level of entitlement that you can feel even in the stadiums that frankly seems to just make it less enjoyable.

Of course I want us to do well, but on a game by game basis you win, draw and lose. And I have never been anything other than happy when we win, even if I may have reservations on the performance, and throughout most of my life supporting spurs this has been the same with 99% of the fan base But this season in particular it feels that some fans, a minority but a vocal one, are actually unhappy even when we win. That is very bizarre and sad to me,

In my WhatsApp football group (primarily of Newcastle fans) they find it funny and confusing when they hear some spurs fans complaints. And tbh I can relate.

 

[Timberwolf]

Everyone likes and lives for the moments – goals, the important attacking plays, etc.

The truth is though that about 98% of your average football match – win, lose, or draw, scoring 1 goal or 10 - is boring, mundane, uneventful. Call it what you will.

There is an element of what defines teams/managers/approaches being how they approach this “dead time” in the game.

Some like to control, even kill, chunks of the game by being in possession of the ball and not letting the other team have it.

Some like to control, even kill, chunks of the game by not having possession of the ball and stifling proceedings with their defensive work.

Some teams even try to eliminate (as much as possible) these passages all together, either by being heavily focused on fast transitions, or because they’re some open free-wheeling end to end Redknapp-style football team.

Sometimes, some game situations, you’re forced into a certain pattern of play, whether you like it or not. Sometimes you play exceptionally well, and/or your opposition collapses, on the day and you can have more “moments” than the norm.

The boring meat and drink stuff also heavily defines fans and their views I’d suggest also. Everyone has their own tastes about how it should be done. But my main point would be this: I know a lot of people complain that some fans are never happy, or bemoan that modern fans are obsessed with possession/stats, and to some extent that is true….. But I don’t think it is that hard to understand tbh. If you think back to as a child and just discovering football, your first basic want, before even scoring a goal, is to be involved and get lots of touches of the ball. I don’t think that changes much for your grown up fan – the vast vast majority will have a basic, primeval, primary instinct of football is that they want their team to have the ball. So any approach, effective or not, that spends large spells of the game doing the opposite is always going to be met with unease. It is inevitable.

Yeah I think that's a really valid point.

I think, if we're being truly honest, almost everyone on the forum would prefer us to have more of the ball and play a more consistently attractive, possession style. As you say, there's a degree of human nature that comes in to play - we want to see our team have the ball and...do stuff with it. Be the ones making the action, rather than reacting to it.

I don't expect everyone to love our current style of play or not have a preference for something else. I suppose what annoys me is the hypocrisy - the way some people bitched about us not winning enough when we were an attractive, possession based team under Poch. About how we needed a WINNER as a manager. Then when we get a proven winner...they turn around and bitch about the style.

Pick a lane.

 

[teok]

AC now has loads of time to mastermind a strategy for the goons. ?

 

[Trix]

AC now has loads of time to mastermind a strategy for the goons. ?

And Arteta has loads of time to come up with some new cartoon characters for his white board.

 

[mil1lion]

It's one of our worst grounds next so he has a big job on his hands. We've maybe started to turn a corner getting a draw at Anfield back end of last season and draw at Stamford Bridge this season. Those are the other 2 grounds we have bad history of results in. There needs to come a time to start turning some of these draws into wins though. That is one of the final hurdles we have to be a true contender. No good feeling happy to get a draw if we want to win things.

 

[Rosco1984]

And Arteta has loads of time to come up with some new cartoon characters for his white board.

Hopefully he gets his lightbulb out again that worked really well..... for us.

 

[cliff jones]

AC now has loads of time to mastermind a strategy for the goons. ?

true, but he'll need more than one- a lot will depend on key players coming back unscathed from the international fixtures. We've got more depth but so have they.

Jesus and/or Partey struggling would be a shame.

 

[synththfc]

personally i find City to be the most boring team in the league. the hundreds of side to side passes in defence with the sole purpose of keep ball bore me even more than watching dyche’s burnley.

i admit we haven’t been as electric as we were on the backend of last season, but no doubt in my mind we are the most exciting team to watch when we’re on form under conte. the high speed transitions, the methodical playing out from the back like against city last year, that’s proper exciting football.