Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[fishhhandaricecake]

Again, I'm happy to agree to disagree. I don't think we're at all good on the ball in the middle of the field. When given time and space, then yes, but a lot of the time it falls apart under any sort pressure. A large percentage of the passing is either sideways or backwards, our first-touch at times is horrific, and players sometimes need an eternity to bring the ball under full control, which kills opportunities stone-dead. We either don't see passes quickly enough or are unable to make them, they can't play one-touch or receive the ball on the half-turn when required, I could go on. This is why we struggle to establish any sort of meaningful possession in our opponent's half. Which teams is it that our midfield is up there with? KDB/Gundogan/Rodri/Silva at City? Fabinho/Thiago/Henderson at Liverpool? Xhaka/Partey/Odegaard at Arsenal? Eriksen/Casemiro/Fernandes at United? The stats don't appear to back that up at all

View attachment 118875
Compare our chart to that of the other top teams. Before you say it, I know some of this is probably due to how terrible our wing-backs are, making it easier for teams to pack the middle of the pitch against us, but IMO the primary reason for this is the quality of our midfield compared to theirs

Agree. Bentancur is class, PEH works hard but isn't top top quality especially when under pressure, Bissouma is promising but not hit top form yet and questions if he is ok in the midfield 2 or only in a 3 and Skipp imo is still raw and no where near the quality we need right now.

I certainly wouldn't say CM is a priority to be upgraded right now given : RWB, CB (possibly x2), AM should be the next 3 key priorities but beyond that it might be an area we add another player of better quality there in due course if Conte stays with us longer-term.

At Inter he had Barella, Brozovic, Eriksen etc, at Chelsea : Kante, Matic, Fabregas, our CM's are ok, especially Bentancur who for me has been player of the season but beyond him there are question marks for me over PEH and Skipp and Bissouma if he can play in a 2 but I don't see why not and I think they guy is class.

However compared to the likes of Casemero & Eriksen or Rodri & KDB/Gundoguan or Partey & Oodegard or Fabiniho/Thiago they are not at that level, that being said we do play a different style to all of those teams so in terms of strong combative physical CM's with a good engine PEH, Bissoum and Bentancur aren't too bad in terms of what Conte is looking for in his CM's.

Overall I think Conte is still getting us to punch above our weight and we are only half way through the process/re-shaping of the squad.

2-3 top signings in Jan (RWB,CB & AM) will make some difference along with players back from injury and then 3-5 more next summer and we would look the real deal imo.

 

[allatsea]

This thread makes sad reading.

 

[double0]

Reading some of the comments and seeing the overall impatient nature of our fans, I can't help but think if Arteta had been our manager and we finished the last few seasons like Arsenal have then we wouldn't have 'trusted the process' we would have called for him to be sacked, probably in his second season. Arsenal are now starting to reap the benefits of giving the Manager time and backing him - can we not do the same?

Do I want to see more positive football, especially in the first half of matches? Yes.

However, we are in the top 4 and have topped our CL group - all whilst being in the middle of an injury crisis and not playing to the standard that we all know we can. Things are actually more positive than people are making out.

I think Spurs fans are tired we've been dangling along with a lot of false dawns impatient I think not . The majority of fans can see what the issues are and what really needs to be done . Paratici hopefully is given the funds by Levy to deliever a winning squad.

The process Arteta and Arsenal are undertaking has involved greater financial processes there steadily got rid of their dead wood and spent money consistently. This word 'process' I've noticed Conte use often. Without rambling on too much we need to turn over certain players and get in much better quality.

Lloris Dier Davies Sanchez Doherty Emerson etc are not the level needed.

 

[PLTuck]

If you want to be shot of the manager that has us in top 4 over the winter break, and top of the CL group despite not playing at all well for large parts of the season, keep booing at half time.

Ironic that right now, it's not Levy's action or inaction that will make Conte walk, but the home 'fans'. I get it costs a bomb to go watch spurs, but its so counter productive. It's self harm and I wish it would stop.

 

[jurgen11]

If you want to be shot of the manager that has us in top 4 over the winter break, and top of the CL group despite not playing at all well for large parts of the season, keep booing at half time.

Ironic that right now, it's not Levy's action or inaction that will make Conte walk, but the home 'fans'. I get it costs a bomb to go watch spurs, but its so counter productive. It's self harm and I wish it would stop.

I am a season ticket holder of 20 years almost .It costs several bombs . Booing, if it continues, will make me an ex season ticket holder.

 

[PaulM]

If you want to be shot of the manager that has us in top 4 over the winter break, and top of the CL group despite not playing at all well for large parts of the season, keep booing at half time.

Ironic that right now, it's not Levy's action or inaction that will make Conte walk, but the home 'fans'. I get it costs a bomb to go watch spurs, but its so counter productive. It's self harm and I wish it would stop.

To quote Roy Keane, some of the home fans haven't a clue what they are talking about. On Sunday, I had the fella behind me shouting at Kane to pressure the Liverpool defenders when they were knocking it between them. Kane goes and does that, he's not getting the ball because he's outnumbered, he wastes energy doing it and he leaves a hole in the middle of the park behind him which is what Fabinho was waiting for (and if someone pushed on up Fabinho, Firmino was lurking in between the lines for the next pass).

The amount of shouts I hear at every game to "just get it forward" is scary. Yeah, you should always look to get the ball forward as your first option but if there is nothing on, you have to go sideways or backwards. It can be frustrating to watch but "just getting it forward" will usually result in lost possession.

 

[Japhet]

If you want to be shot of the manager that has us in top 4 over the winter break, and top of the CL group despite not playing at all well for large parts of the season, keep booing at half time.

Ironic that right now, it's not Levy's action or inaction that will make Conte walk, but the home 'fans'. I get it costs a bomb to go watch spurs, but its so counter productive. It's self harm and I wish it would stop.

They'd still do it if they got in for £10. Too thick to work out that it's not helpful, and as the saying goes, 'if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem'.

 

[jurgen11]

To quote Roy Keane, some of the home fans haven't a clue what they are talking about. On Sunday, I had the fella behind me shouting at Kane to pressure the Liverpool defenders when they were knocking it between them. Kane goes and does that, he's not getting the ball because he's outnumbered, he wastes energy doing it and he leaves a hole in the middle of the park behind him which is what Fabinho was waiting for (and if someone pushed on up Fabinho, Firmino was lurking in between the lines for the next pass).

The amount of shouts I hear at every game to "just get it forward" is scary. Yeah, you should always look to get the ball forward as your first option but if there is nothing on, you have to go sideways or backwards. It can be frustrating to watch but "just getting it forward" will usually result in lost possession.

Randomly shouting "push up" irrespective of where the ball is or any of the players are is my favourite

 

[jurgen11]

I wonder if the players after getting booed off think "fuck it Ill show em second half the tossers".....sports psychiatry at its worst

 

[Freddie]

No way. Our CM options now are superb. Bentancur, Hojbjerg, Bissouma and Skipp is a fantastic quartet of CMs and one of the strongest areas in our team and up there with the best teams.

We don't have a playmaker in there because our shape is different but in terms of all round CMs ours are excellent.

At the back however, we have Romero who is quality but then we have Lenglet who has been ok but nothing great, Dier and Davies who are average players, then Sanchez who is poor.

4 very good midfielders but they all do a bit of everything and don't really excel in any department. None of them protect the back 4 that well and I feel that's why our whole team has to sit deep because we can't rely on them to shield us. They'll all chip in with goals and assists but won't consistently create chances. I think a proper DM and an AM (who ideally could also play WF) to compliment 3 of the current 4 CMs are needed.

 

[double0]

If you want to be shot of the manager that has us in top 4 over the winter break, and top of the CL group despite not playing at all well for large parts of the season, keep booing at half time.

Ironic that right now, it's not Levy's action or inaction that will make Conte walk, but the home 'fans'. I get it costs a bomb to go watch spurs, but its so counter productive. It's self harm and I wish it would stop.

We have a history of booing it's unfortunately creeping back. Against Liverpool some fans will tell you abnumber of reasons there were booing the standard of refereeing, the predictable first half roll overs, some the players / the manager tactics.

I don't agree with the booing we should really back the team take a leaf from our own away supporters. We are in good hands with A Conte he definitely won't stand for nonsense our players will be tactically and physically prepared he most definitely will not stand for a lack of investment so again all eyes on Levy.

 

[PLTuck]

I wonder if the players after getting booed off think "fuck it Ill show em second half the tossers".....sports psychiatry at its worst

I don't think so. We have had better second halves away from home as well. The away fans never boo at HT that I've ever heard. Fans that think it's their booing that makes the difference in the 2nd half are delusional.

Conte has been pretty clear in the latest round of interviews. If fans suck the passion and enthusism out of him due to constant negativity or booing, he won't stick around for the longer term.

 

[jurgen11]

We have a history of booing it's unfortunately creeping back. Against Liverpool some fans will tell you abnumber of reasons there were booing the standard of refereeing, the predictable first half roll overs, some the players / the manager tactics.

I don't agree with the booing we should really back the team take a leaf from our own away supporters. We are in good hands with A Conte he definitely won't stand for nonsense our players will be tactically and physically prepared he most definitely will not stand for a lack of investment so again all eyes on Levy.

They were booing against Liverpool because we were losing , nothing more (apart from the fact they know absolutely fuck all about football)

 

[King of the Lane]

I think Spurs fans are tired we've been dangling along with a lot of false dawns impatient I think not . The majority of fans can see what the issues are and what really needs to be done . Paratici hopefully is given the funds by Levy to deliever a winning squad.

The process Arteta and Arsenal are undertaking has involved greater financial processes there steadily got rid of their dead wood and spent money consistently. This word 'process' I've noticed Conte use often. Without rambling on too much we need to turn over certain players and get in much better quality.

Lloris Dier Davies Sanchez Doherty Emerson etc are not the level needed.

Conte has only been in charge for a year though. The point is that these things will hopefully come but there is certain entitlement/I want it now attitude that is starting to plague our fanbase. Maybe it's as another poster said - due to Kane and Son getting older etc and wanting to win while they are here. I do think we need to accept that it may take another season or so before we hopefully get to where we want to be. Unless a takeover happens, I don't see how this gets sped up sufficiently.

 

[PaulM]

They were booing against Liverpool because we were losing , nothing more (apart from the fact they absolutely fuck all about football)

Exactly this. Said to the fella beside me just as Dier was about to make his error, "we're actually playing pretty well here especially compared to some recent first halves".

How we were 2-0 down, I'll never know. The booing made no sense to me.

 

[homer hotspur]

If you want to be shot of the manager that has us in top 4 over the winter break, and top of the CL group despite not playing at all well for large parts of the season, keep booing at half time.

Ironic that right now, it's not Levy's action or inaction that will make Conte walk, but the home 'fans'. I get it costs a bomb to go watch spurs, but its so counter productive. It's self harm and I wish it would stop.

And we didn't play that badly in the first half either.

 

[PLTuck]

And we didn't play that badly in the first half either.

I thought it was our best 90 min performance for a long time. Booing is such a dick move.

 

[dudu]

4 very good midfielders but they all do a bit of everything and don't really excel in any department. None of them protect the back 4 that well and I feel that's why our whole team has to sit deep because we can't rely on them to shield us. They'll all chip in with goals and assists but won't consistently create chances. I think a proper DM and an AM (who ideally could also play WF) to compliment 3 of the current 4 CMs are needed.

I think it is harsh to base our MF abilities on how well they do the job they are being asked to do. Is it their job to be creating chances or is that the job of our wingbacks and wide forwards?

Again, I'm happy to agree to disagree. I don't think we're at all good on the ball in the middle of the field. When given time and space, then yes, but a lot of the time it falls apart under any sort pressure. A large percentage of the passing is either sideways or backwards, our first-touch at times is horrific, and players sometimes need an eternity to bring the ball under full control, which kills opportunities stone-dead. We either don't see passes quickly enough or are unable to make them, they can't play one-touch or receive the ball on the half-turn when required, I could go on. This is why we struggle to establish any sort of meaningful possession in our opponent's half. Which teams is it that our midfield is up there with? KDB/Gundogan/Rodri/Silva at City? Fabinho/Thiago/Henderson at Liverpool? Xhaka/Partey/Odegaard at Arsenal? Eriksen/Casemiro/Fernandes at United? The stats don't appear to back that up at all

View attachment 118875
Compare our chart to that of the other top teams. Before you say it, I know some of this is probably due to how terrible our wing-backs are, making it easier for teams to pack the middle of the pitch against us, but IMO the primary reason for this is the quality of our midfield compared to theirs


See above

There is also the fact that we are happy to cede possession in the first half and play on the counter. I know we have been doing so poorly but these charts don't consider that.

If they showed our map from the second half the last few weeks it would look very different.

Either way I don't think these charts really show or prove one teams quality over another, just how they are deciding to play.

 

[Freddie]

I think it is harsh to base our MF abilities based on how well they do the job they are being asked to do. Is it their job to be creating chances or is that the job of our wingbacks and wide forwards?






There is also the fact that we are happy to cede possession in the first half and play on the counter. I know we have been doing so poorly but these charts don't consider that.

If they showed our map from the second half the last few weeks it would look very different.

Either way I don't think these charts really show or prove one teams quality over another, just how they are deciding to play.

But you can clearly see their skills and their limitations. It's not always about systems. The issue isn't with the individuals but with how players compliment each other. I think PEH has been excellent for the most part this season but if Bentancur had players around who were available to receive the ball on the half turn or play it first time it would be transformative for the team.

 

[double0]

4 very good midfielders but they all do a bit of everything and don't really excel in any department. None of them protect the back 4 that well and I feel that's why our whole team has to sit deep because we can't rely on them to shield us. They'll all chip in with goals and assists but won't consistently create chances. I think a proper DM and an AM (who ideally could also play WF) to compliment 3 of the current 4 CMs are needed.

I really believe the lack of quality is in our back line including Lloris who sets a very negative tone with the ball at feet honestly the amount of turn overs that happens with him is shocking, his better just to kick the ball out for a throw in so that we can reset, our lack of pace on half turn is shocking Dier needs 40 yards to get up to speed while Davies is just one paced most importantly the wingbacks is a massive issue for how we should be playing.

I like Emerson's personality he comes across very well, his a decent full back but a wingback he is not. We can all see it... pretty sure Conte can too...though in his defence Emerson works damn hard defensively. Sessengon I like but he struggles with lack of aggression and full trust in his body. I feel we have a good set of midfield options however we need another Kulusevski type player in the squad.