Eric Dier

[rossdapep]

I dont think he was helped yesterday with the personnel options Conte opted for.

The right side was a mess and left Dier vulnerable.

But thats the issue. Plenty of CBs get isolated at times however they have the ability/awareness to do something. They may not be succesful every time but they can make it difficult for the oppositon.

Dier is practically a training cone.

 

[Scot-Spur]

I dont think he was helped yesterday with the personnel options Conte opted for.

The right side was a mess and left Dier vulnerable.

But thats the issue. Plenty of CBs get isolated at times however they have the ability/awareness to do something. They may not be succesful every time but they can make it difficult for the oppositon.

Dier is practically a training cone.

He wasn’t but at the same time he was directly at fault for 3 goals yesterday. The 3 CBS we had out are all not good enough though.

 

[Trent Crimm]

In my opinion he gets picked on his attitude more than application.

In AoN Jose admired his warrior mentality. Conte probably the same.

The problem is he’s far too inconsistent - goes from a sublime performance against City to being mainly culpable for three of their goals yesterday.

Jose picked him cos he was native Portuguese speaker.

 

[G Ron]

Seemed to lose his form around getting recalled for England. I for sure wish that hadn't happened, as he seems to have lost the drive and determination since then.

Some of the comments the past few pages about him are shocking though. Can assume it's kids or "fans" who have never set foot in London let alone WHL. Give you heads a wobble, he's one of ours and one of our best performers last season.

Never been good enough - I’ve had a season ticket 30 years and seen more than enough of his labouring, ball watching, slow thinking and moving.

Players of his limited quality epitomise why we’ve won fuck all for 15 years.

Mediocrity personified.

 

[G Ron]

I dont think he is as bad as others make out. I mean he performed well last week right? We can question his consistency that is fine but he isnt poor.

First goal, wasnt it a pass in to Kane that came back to Iheanacho leaving Dier one on one - not like he could dive in and tackle, mistimed and thats a red card. He gets the shit because he is the last line of defence, but there is a lot of stuff that happens before that. Hence it is a system and tactics issue. He forced the shot from outside the box but it was an excellent finish right in the corner.

Defending 101 - goal side of your man - not 15 yards ahead of him when your 2 CB partners are 20 yards behind you.

He has the occasional good game, but far too often he reverts to type, is slow on and off the ball, gets caught ball watching frequently and makes way too many errors. Don’t even get me started on his reluctance to engage and just allow forwards the freedom of the city to pick their spot.

 

[nico97531]

I know this sounds really weird but he does have strengths as well - he good with the ball and go forward as well (see second half v liverpool) - on his day he is a very good defender otherwise Conte wouldn’t pick him

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying he’s useless, he does have his strengths, but what I am saying is that his weakness far outweigh his strength in an attacking team that dominate possession as it will require the whole team to push up during attacking phase and any turnovers in that situation will likely result in a quick counter where he will need to deal with attackers running at him with acres of space behind which he had shown time and again that he’s not very good at.

 

[DannyNZ]

I dont think he was helped yesterday with the personnel options Conte opted for.

The right side was a mess and left Dier vulnerable.

But thats the issue. Plenty of CBs get isolated at times however they have the ability/awareness to do something. They may not be succesful every time but they can make it difficult for the oppositon.

Dier is practically a training cone.

Right side was a mess but the goals didn’t come from that, Dier just had a mare positionally and closing down. No excuses for him he was poor.

 

[Trix]

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying he’s useless, he does have his strengths, but what I am saying is that his weakness far outweigh his strength in an attacking team that dominate possession as it will require the whole team to push up during attacking phase and any turnovers in that situation will likely result in a quick counter where he will need to deal with attackers running at him with acres of space behind which he had shown time and again that he’s not very good at.

Yeah his strength is sitting in a low block just heading away crosses and blocking shots, he's very good at that. As you say though his weakness' are very apparent in anything but a low block. His 1v1 defending, his tracking of runners, and awareness around him as soon as we leave that low block is really not good enough though. When you add in a real lack of mobility/recovery it's a recipe for disaster.

 

[Guntz]

Some of those are debatable, but the fact it's even a discussion is pretty tragic.

 

[Timberwolf]

Infuriatingly inconsistent. He goes from sublime to comically bad at the drop of a hat and I don't think you can have the lynchpin of your defence being this way.

He's mostly fine and sometimes excellent when we sit deep and he can play in his comfort zone - it's why his best periods at CB have come under Jose and Conte - but when he's exposed he genuinely looks Championship standard.

No surprise the Leicester game was the highest line and most exposed he's been in a long time and he looked absolutely dog dirt.

Not sure if it's a personal thing or a coaching issue, but in recent years he has this habit of constantly backing off his man and never ever engaging. That's good defending when you're way outside of the box and don't want to get done by a trick or overcommit, but he takes it to the extreme and won't ever try to tackle a player 1v1. We've conceded about 3 or 4 goals as a direct result of his giving a striker an age to pick his shot and then doing his rubbish 'arms behind the back shit block attempt' as the ball sails into the far corner. His defending for the Iheanacho goal was an absolute joke.

EDIT: sorry, didn't realise discussing ERIC DIER in the ERIC DIER thread was off-topic @mickdale

 

[DJS]

Some of those are debatable, but the fact it's even a discussion is pretty tragic.

I was thinking earlier funnily enough that aside from Romero we do seem to have some of the shittiest defenders in the league.

How likes of Levy cannot see this and sorted a couple of new centre backs out baffles me.

 

[Timberwolf]

I was thinking earlier funnily enough that aside from Romero we do seem to have some of the shittiest defenders in the league.

How likes of Levy cannot see this and sorted a couple of new centre backs out baffles me.

Yeah even a fairly average PL defender like Coady who has ended up at a terrible Everton team would be an upgrade on Dier as at least he's a massive character in the dressing room and has fantastic passing range. Dier pulls off one Hollywood pass every 5-10 matches and the rest of the time his passing is bang average whereas Coady in a back 3 can spray them to the wing backs all day long.

Once Dembele left under Poch we had a relegation-standard CMs and Champions League-standard CBs. Now it's the the complete opposite (Romero aside).

 

[Japhet]

When he's facing the play he's generally OK, but get him on the turn or being run at and he's all over the place. His habit of backing off and failing to engage is a huge problem too, as are the concentration lapses. Add to that his impatient, scattergun passing out from the back and it doesn't make for good reading. A while back I really thought he was turning a corner, but since his England recall he's been a liability. Shame, because I like him a lot as a personality.

 

[PaulM]

Never been good enough - I’ve had a season ticket 30 years and seen more than enough of his labouring, ball watching, slow thinking and moving.

Players of his limited quality epitomise why we’ve won fuck all for 15 years.

Mediocrity personified.

Saturday is the worst performance I've seen him put in in our shirt. I'm not a hater but he's had quite a few stinkers so Saturday was special.

I've always felt with Dier that he's a decent defender and decent at a lot of the game. But he has nothing that makes him outstanding. Nothing he excels at. Nothing that makes you think you could build a defence around him. As you say, he's just mediocre and it's shocking he's still an automatic starter in our team.

That Poch, Jose and Conte have all spoken highly of him and picked him had me questioning my opinion. They're 3 great football minds. But, f**k me, the evidence of the last 7 years says I'm not wrong on this.

 

[felmani26]

A symbol of the malaise at this club.

 

[DiVaio]

Yeah even a fairly average PL defender like Coady who has ended up at a terrible Everton team would be an upgrade on Dier as at least he's a massive character in the dressing room and has fantastic passing range. Dier pulls off one Hollywood pass every 5-10 matches and the rest of the time his passing is bang average whereas Coady in a back 3 can spray them to the wing backs all day long.

Who said Dier isn't good character for dressing room though? One of those players makes this season 1,80 progressive passes per 90 and the other one is making 3,10 per 90. Guess which one of them is Dier.

 

[G Ron]

Saturday is the worst performance I've seen him put in in our shirt. I'm not a hater but he's had quite a few stinkers so Saturday was special.

I've always felt with Dier that he's a decent defender and decent at a lot of the game. But he has nothing that makes him outstanding. Nothing he excels at. Nothing that makes you think you could build a defence around him. As you say, he's just mediocre and it's shocking he's still an automatic starter in our team.

That Poch, Jose and Conte have all spoken highly of him and picked him had me questioning my opinion. They're 3 great football minds. But, f**k me, the evidence of the last 7 years says I'm not wrong on this.

Poch saw him for what he was in the end - a squad player. He started him
At CB, then he moved to CDM, then he was benched. Poch could do this though as we had Verts and Toby at the time.

Jose talked him up and then benched him (and dragged him after 25 mins once). Sadly Rodon was the alternative and he was raw

Conte picks him as he has zero choice. Pretty sure he would upgrade him in a heartbeat.

our eyes don’t deceive us - we’ve just been completely negligent in our recruitment and left ourselves with sub par players in one of the most important areas of the pitch.

 

[Timberwolf]

Who said Dier isn't good character for dressing room though? One of those players makes this season 1,80 progressive passes per 90 and the other one is making 3,10 per 90. Guess which one of them is Dier.

Meh - that's largely because Everton are a joke of a team and we have tons of sterile possession around the back that pads Dier's progressive passing stats.

When Coady was in a functional Wolves team rather than this joke of an Everton team his long passing completion percentage was consistently better than Dier's.

Looking at the stats Coady's long pass completion was in the 96th percentile in the league last season at Wolves. Think Dier's best season his was around the 70th percentile.

As for his character, I'm sure Dier's a top bloke and a good character but Coady was literally taken to the World Cup ONLY because he's such a positive bloke and beloved around the camp.

Anyway, Coady was just a random example. There are tons of other bottom half CBs that would also be better than Dier in this current Spurs team.

 

[DiVaio]

Meh - that's largely because Everton are a joke of a team and we have tons of sterile possession around the back that pads Dier's progressive passing stats.

When Coady was in a functional Wolves team rather than this joke of an Everton team his long passing completion percentage was consistently better than Dier's.

Looking at the stats Coady's long pass completion was in the 96th percentile in the league last season at Wolves. Think Dier's best season his was around the 70th percentile.

As for his character, I'm sure Dier's a top bloke and a good character but Coady was literally taken to the World Cup ONLY because he's such a positive bloke and beloved around the camp.

Anyway, Coady was just a random example. There are tons of other bottom half CBs that would also be better than Dier in this current Spurs team.

In the last five years, worst Dier season in terms of progressive passes was better than the best Coady seasons.

 

[Timberwolf]

In the last five years, worst Dier season in terms of progressive passes was better than the best Coady seasons.

I was specifically talking about long passes in my original post, not progressive passes. They are different things.

According to FBRef a progressive pass is 10 yards+ and a long pass is 30 yards+. The latter is obviously a lot harder to pull off consistently.

Any CB can pull off 10 yard forward passes to full backs and CMs all day long in the right system.