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Are the Spurs youth any good?

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
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Are the Spurs youth any good?

There is much talk in the football world every year, in pubs and homes, on terraces and in the media, about youth players and ‘the next big thing’. Every fan around the globe is eager to hear of their club’s latest addition to its youth side, and whether the new signing will make it or not. So, in turn, this leads me to ask you – the very lovely ladies and gentlemen of Spurscommunity – the following question:

“How old must a player be before we, the fans, realise that he’s not going to cut it in the Premiership?”

On the face of it I’d say that when a player reaches 19 years old, one can determine whether or not that player will make it at the highest level. The player in question should have obvious ability, and should be playing regular first-team football for his club. I think this has been the case with the majority of the leading players in the game nowadays (Ronaldo, Messi, Rooney, Fabregas, there’s probably lots more, and I’m sure you’ll tell me).

Some youth players, particularly at bigger clubs, find it hard to break into the first team, so leave and do the business elsewhere (Robbie Keane moving from Inter Milan being a good example of this).

This leads me to our youth players, and in particular Kevin-Prince Boateng. I mention this player in particular because he has sparked some heated debate as to whether he’s good enough or not (although feel free to discuss all our younger players, because the article’s about youth potential after all).

I think KPB is the perfect example of a young player that won’t make it for a top 5 club in the Premiership. He’s 21 years old (March 6th 1987), doesn’t seem to have any discernable pace, skill, vision or positional sense and isn’t getting a regular run in the first team. With regards to the last point, some might say ‘How can you tell he won’t make it, if you’ve never seen him play?’ That would be a fair point, but one has to remember that KPB plays in training everyday and is scrutinised by professionals everyday, who monitor his development. Basically, there is a reason why we don’t see him play week-in, week-out; namely, he’s not good enough.

A player that may make it, however, is Adel Taarabt who is 18 years old (24th May 1989). He’s got some nice touches, the ability to dribble with the ball, and his passing ability is also good. If he develops a keen positional sense, then his lack of pace will not be seen as any great weakness. But the $64’000 question is ‘Will he develop?, especially since he’ll be 19years old soon, and he’s still not getting much of a sniff of first team football at Spurs.

So, anyway, this is where I open the floor to you guys. I’d also like to finally say that the emphasis is certainly on you, the readers, to answer the question above; this article is not a self-righteous monologue, but an open discussion.
 

al_pacino

woo
Feb 2, 2005
4,577
4,112
The age is irrelevant, O'hara made a breakthrough this season at the late age of 21 and someone like Leon Osman was about 22 before he made any impact at Everton.

It's only fairly recently that players are expected to make their debuts before they're 18, it didn't used to be that unusual for players to make an impact in their 20's.
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
9,429
12,383
The age is irrelevant, O'hara made a breakthrough this season at the late age of 21 and someone like Leon Osman was about 22 before he made any impact at Everton.

It's only fairly recently that players are expected to make their debuts before they're 18, it didn't used to be that unusual for players to make an impact in their 20's.

Quite true Al, but doesn't this mean that the game is changing. In the past you'd wait until you were in your 20s, but now you have to excel at a younger age.

As for O'Hara, I've been really impressed with him, but will he be a Spurs player in 18 months time? I fear not.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
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I think its 22ish witch if the played dosent make his debut before that time he should be offloaded. You have to remember that different player develop at their own pace, so we could have the next Ronaldo who only makes their debut at 21. Taarbt (whos biggest prob. is his selfishness not his speed, he makes up for that because he can beat every defender in the prem.) Is still very young and has already made a couple of apperences. This means he is 90% (about) chance of making the grade. I think we will see that in the comming years. Players who may not make it are players like Pekart who look promosing but might not make the next grade. I think KPB may well make the grade in a top 5 club. He just needs a lot of time to adapt, and we havent seen anywhere near the best of him, althogh he could just colllapse 21 is still very young.

Lets use O'Hara in this debate he made is debut at 21? and is now considered part of the first team squad. You cant tell wether a player makes the grade or not at 19!!?
Again lets look at even Perryman was not expected to make it anywhere near a top team at 19. 19 is just out of the youth acadamy ffs. I think you will find the average age a player makes there debut in the PL is 20/21 or even 22. And Keane had already made the grade when he left Inter Milan. He played constantly for Wolves and a couple of other clubs. And had played in the PL. As well as being wanted by Liverpool and other teams. He was labled one of the hottest prospects in the english league!!
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
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Quite true Al, but doesn't this mean that the game is changing. In the past you'd wait until you were in your 20s, but now you have to excel at a younger age.

As for O'Hara, I've been really impressed with him, but will he be a Spurs player in 18 months time? I fear not.

I mean didnt Zidane make his debut in his 20s?

look if you have to exel at a younger age you will find the PL will only be able to feild about 14 players in the whole league witch came from a youth acadamy within the PL

I think O'Hara will be a fringe player for 2 or 3 years to come
 

Pedro

Blue & Yellow
Jan 4, 2005
2,039
1,355
I was going to mention O'hara, but al beat me to it. Another example would be David Beckham - Im pretty sure he broke through at united at about 22/23yrs.

Also, it takes more time for foreign players, since they have to learn the launguage, the culture, and the style of play. So people like KPB should be given at least one more full season untill we can really judge. You could also argue that he did make the break through at his former club.

But yes, for real exceptional talents you would normally expect them to break through before they are 20, but this often depends on who is in front of them in the pecking order. With us lennon got lucky in that routledge got injured and he was thrown in. Any young strikers would have a job being selected over our current crop.
 

al_pacino

woo
Feb 2, 2005
4,577
4,112
I was going to mention O'hara, but al beat me to it. Another example would be David Beckham - Im pretty sure he broke through at united at about 22/23yrs.

Also, it takes more time for foreign players, since they have to learn the launguage, the culture, and the style of play. So people like KPB should be given at least one more full season untill we can really judge. You could also argue that he did make the break through at his former club.

But yes, for real exceptional talents you would normally expect them to break through before they are 20, but this often depends on who is in front of them in the pecking order. With us lennon got lucky in that routledge got injured and he was thrown in. Any young strikers would have a job being selected over our current crop.

Beckham was a bit earlier than that but the point still stands, he was one of the last from that selection to make a full impact in the Man U first team. If my memory serves me Nicky Butt was the first and it took Scholes a while to find his position in midfield.

If your coaches are good enough they'll know if they have a good player and will give him time to develop, not just letting him go when he reaches a pre-detemind age.
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
9,429
12,383
But yes, for real exceptional talents you would normally expect them to break through before they are 20, but this often depends on who is in front of them in the pecking order. With us lennon got lucky in that routledge got injured and he was thrown in. Any young strikers would have a job being selected over our current crop.

I think this is the crux of the argument; namely, how good does a player have to be to play for a club.

If it's a Championship club, then the player has to be good, but obviously not as good as a top 5 Premiership club.

It's all relative, but my point is that to break into the starting 11 of a top 5 Premiership club (where Spurs want to be), then you have to look pretty special by the time you're 19.

Some of the players used in example (above) are not what I'd call top-5 material.
 

N10toN17

New Member
Jan 22, 2007
1,288
1
Players develop at different speeds, the exceptional develop quicker, as for the question, the youth team have just won their 10th league game in a row, that's bloody good.
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
9,429
12,383
The Manchester United examples are all correct of course, and are all really interesting.

For me they represent the previosus generation of football; the generation I loved when I was a teenager.

In a relatively short period times have changed, so it seems, as the big stars nowadays are getting younger and younger.
 

PT

North Stand behind Pat's goal.
Admin
May 21, 2004
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Lennon joined us as an 18 year old and not expected to break the ranks as Routledge was signed to be the first choice winger.

Circumstances determined that Aaron Lennon would go on to storm the Premiership defences in his first season, earning him an England call-up which gave him a glowing reputation.

This season, two seasons on, he hasn't progressed at the same pace as say, Ronaldo, but it doesn't mean we off-load him and write off the investment. Instead, through analysis and training programmes determined specifically for him, the trainers can understand at what point he is in relation to his education.

If Lennon is at the peak of his capabilities and that peak is not acceptable for his contribution to the team effort, then he will be shipped out. Age has nothing to do with it.
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
9,429
12,383
If Lennon is at the peak of his capabilities and that peak is not acceptable for his contribution to the team effort, then he will be shipped out. Age has nothing to do with it.

:clap::clap:
 

frodo

Active Member
Jun 12, 2005
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16
It is incredible how if a player at 22 is not good enough for the first team it is assumed that they never will be. Players continue to develop at a different pace. No all footballers can turn from a raw 18 year like Ronaldo to a world class player at 22. I think people are unrealistic. Just because Jamie O'Hara is 22 it doesn't mean he can't develop into a top 5 player in the next three or four years. Surely Carrick is case and point of this. Good player when he bought him, great player when he left and he wasn't straight out of the youth team. Pirlo is another obvious example.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
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It is incredible how if a player at 22 is not good enough for the first team it is assumed that they never will be. Players continue to develop at a different pace. No all footballers can turn from a raw 18 year like Ronaldo to a world class player at 22. I think people are unrealistic. Just because Jamie O'Hara is 22 it doesn't mean he can't develop into a top 5 player in the next three or four years. Surely Carrick is case and point of this. Good player when he bought him, great player when he left and he wasn't straight out of the youth team. Pirlo is another obvious example.

well said, repped.
 

chinaman

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2003
17,974
12,423
There are some who are bloomers. A couple of really good ones like Ian Hutchinson of Chelsea who was the pioneer of the long throw, and Tony Book of Man C. came direct from non-league clubs. Book made his debut for Shitty at the ripe old age of 29 and went on to be and English International.
 

WildCard

Member
May 26, 2007
212
0
Lately in football there has been an increasing concentration on young talents, and thanks to Arsene Wenger we get posts like the above...Fabregas is an outstanding talent, are as all the others you mentioned, but there is no magical guide to which we can judge players, not all players are at their best at a young age and some take a while to adjust. Fabregas was given two years in youth teams IIRC, with the odd appearance now and then for Arsenal, KPB hasn't had the same treatment, nor has Kaboul who was thrown into the deep end. Give the lads a year or even two before judging them.

Rivaldo didn't move to Europe until he was 24 and then thrived for Barcelona...
 

paul_1979yid

Mr Tumble
Dec 1, 2006
3,376
2
Beckham was a bit earlier than that but the point still stands, he was one of the last from that selection to make a full impact in the Man U first team. If my memory serves me Nicky Butt was the first and it took Scholes a while to find his position in midfield.

If your coaches are good enough they'll know if they have a good player and will give him time to develop, not just letting him go when he reaches a pre-detemind age.


I still have nt made my 1st appearence for Tottenham and i am 28! I will before i am 30 though! :bs:
 

jondesouza

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2004
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Stuart Pearce and Les Ferdinand are good examples of players that become pro quite late and did ok...
 

cnyy12

Member
Jul 21, 2006
376
0
Different types of players tend to come of age at different ages. You don't see many wingers who have never played before 22 become great players, but they can at other positions. Ronaldo was raw at 18-20, like Lennon is, but he was very much established as a talent in a top league. Likewise, most wingers' careers end young. However, at certain other positions, like the deep midfielder (with Carrick and Pirlo as examples), players often mature into top-class at later ages.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
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lets not forget Ian Wright although We would like to, he matured very late
 
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