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Alex Pritchard...

yanno

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2003
5,857
2,877
Ryan Mason is a classic example of the issues insightfully discussed by the posters above.

In terms of the oldest group:

Born 1991 (must be registered in 25 man squad for 2013/14) : Andros Townsend, Ryan Mason, Adam Smith, Grant Hall

Imo Mason is the most naturally talented of those four, and from what I've seen was better than Pritchard at the same age. (NB Pritchard looks good, and I'm not knocking him.)

Mason's an excellent team player, adept at pass and move football, and like Modric willing to receive possession in tight spaces. Playing as a second striker in the Academy, he showed he's an excellent finisher, and this season we've been using him as a deeper lying CM as well for the U21s.

Mason has been loaned out, but had terrible luck with injuries. He's also slightly built, so some managers may have been unwilling to risk him in fiercely competitive Championship and League 1 football. Nigel Clough hardly played Carroll when he had him on loan at Derby, and Jackett hardly played Mason at Millwal.

Spursidol and Misfit are correct, at Mason's age he either needs to be loaned to a club that will give him a run in the first team, or he needs to get chances in the first team squad - eg in the early rounds of the domestic and European cups. Otherwise we may as well sell him.

The new U21 league seems better than the old reserve nonsense, but it's only for giving players some match fitness.

I think one of the problems this season is that we had three youngish players fighting for a single attacking midfield slot on the bench: Townsend, Falque and Mason.

Personally, I'm not sure why we've been messing around with Falque as nothing I've seen suggests to me that he's better than Mason. However, the problem of those three youngish players is that at most one has been getting on the bench, and even then they rarely got any meaningful playing time.

It's a logjam, and Mason, at his age, need to be learning in competitive football.

In pre-season, AVB seemed to decide that Livermore, Townsend, Kane and Carroll were the young players who had a chance of breaking through. Kane then got loaned to Norwich on deadline day (once we'd brought Dempsey in), and an injury has derailed his season.

Livermore made the full England squad, but now he's back behind Parker and probably Huddlestone for a CM spot, and may be loaned out.

Townsend has been given very little playing time, and I still think for all his competitive playing time on loan, he's more raw potential than PL regular quality. He's a very direct player but needs to get his head up more.

Personally, I think Carroll has more chance of being a top level PL midfield player than Livermore, but again he needs to play.

This is AVB's first season, and naturally he's been getting to assess the squad. Also, I fully support his use of Caulker as a full member of the first team squad, getting regular starts, this season

Hopefully, next season AVB will identify 2 or 3 players from the development and academy squads, and commit to giving them some playing time - initially in the cups. Then we'll see.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Ryan Mason is a classic example of the issues insightfully discussed by the posters above.

In terms of the oldest group:

Born 1991 (must be registered in 25 man squad for 2013/14) : Andros Townsend, Ryan Mason, Adam Smith, Grant Hall

Imo Mason is the most naturally talented of those four, and from what I've seen was better than Pritchard at the same age. (NB Pritchard looks good, and I'm not knocking him.)

Mason's an excellent team player, adept at pass and move football, and like Modric willing to receive possession in tight spaces. Playing as a second striker in the Academy, he showed he's an excellent finisher, and this season we've been using him as a deeper lying CM as well for the U21s.

Mason has been loaned out, but had terrible luck with injuries. He's also slightly built, so some managers may have been unwilling to risk him in fiercely competitive Championship and League 1 football. Nigel Clough hardly played Carroll when he had him on loan at Derby, and Jackett hardly played Mason at Millwal.

Spursidol and Misfit are correct, at Mason's age he either needs to be loaned to a club that will give him a run in the first team, or he needs to get chances in the first team squad - eg in the early rounds of the domestic and European cups. Otherwise we may as well sell him.

The new U21 league seems better than the old reserve nonsense, but it's only for giving players some match fitness.

I think one of the problems this season is that we had three youngish players fighting for a single attacking midfield slot on the bench: Townsend, Falque and Mason.

Personally, I'm not sure why we've been messing around with Falque as nothing I've seen suggests to me that he's better than Mason. However, the problem of those three youngish players is that at most one has been getting on the bench, and even then they rarely got any meaningful playing time.

It's a logjam, and Mason, at his age, need to be learning in competitive football.

In pre-season, AVB seems to decide that Livermore, Townsend, Kane and Carroll were the young players who had a chance of breaking through. Kane then got loaned to Norwich on deadline day (once we'd brought Dempsey in), and an injury has derailed his season.

Livermore made the full England squad, but now he's back behind Parker and probably Huddlestone for a CM spot, and may be loaned out.

Townsend has been given very little playing time, and I still think for all his competitive playing time on loan, he's more raw potential than PL regular quality. He's a very direct player but needs to get his head up more.

Personally, I think Carroll has more chance of being a top level PL midfield player than Livermore, but again he needs to play.

This is AVB's first season, and naturally he's been getting to assess the squad. Also, I fully support his use of Caulker as a full member of the first team squad, getting regular starts, this season

Hopefully, next season AVB will identify 2 or 3 players from the development and academy squads, and commit to giving them some playing time - initially in the cups. Then we'll see.


Again, bingo. Could Mason really have offered less to a team than Dempsey does ? Seriously. It makes my heart sink, my blood boil and other hackneyed cliches.

I can understand AVB's situation, as he was under pressure of immense dimensions this season, especially at the start, but I would swap any more signings this window, for us to start seeing people like Mason, Pritchard, Smith (when he returns) Dombaxe, Carroll, Stewrat, et al, getting more bench/first team squad action. I wouldn't care if I never saw the limitations of people like Dawson, Walker, Demspey, Livermore, Hudd etc again.

I can remember a similar situation a long time ago when we produced some good young players lime Ian Crook, Mark Bowen etc. and they ended up elsewhere as our team gradually fell apart in the late eighties.
 

yanno

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2003
5,857
2,877
I can remember a similar situation a long time ago when we produced some good young players lime Ian Crook, Mark Bowen etc. and they ended up elsewhere as our team gradually fell apart in the late eighties.

I remember when we had Darren Caskey and Nicky Barmby, both born in 1974.

Caskey was a great passer, but had no pace. He was picked ahead of Jamie Redknapp (born 1973) for England youth. Venables, Ardiles and Gerry Francis all looked at him in training but none gave him a run in the team. Caskey ended up with a lower league career.

With Barmby, there's the famous story of Venables and Sugar watching the kids and Sugar asking Venables how much Barmby was worth. The answer was several million, and Sugar allegedly wanted to sell....

Anyway, successive managers regularly picked Barmby, with Ardiles even including him as part of the Famous Five - Klinsmann, Sheringham, Anderton, Dumitrescu and Barmby. Barmby became a top player at Spurs, playing for England over 20 times, before he went back north and his career fizzled out.

There are no guarantees. But our managers decided Barmby was worth taking the chance, and picked him above some of the more experienced squad mediocrities we had in those days.

My point is that I hope we sign Pritchard up to a longish contract. And then AVB commits to developing the best couple of talents in our academy / development squad. AVB sees them every day in training, and if he decides that say Pritchard is our best attacking midfield talent, Carroll is our best CM talent and Smith our best defensive talent - then please commit to giving them some game time in cup games. For starters.
 

mill

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2007
10,433
37,235
Again, bingo. Could Mason really have offered less to a team than Dempsey does ? Seriously. It makes my heart sink, my blood boil and other hackneyed cliches.

I can understand AVB's situation, as he was under pressure of immense dimensions this season, especially at the start, but I would swap any more signings this window, for us to start seeing people like Mason, Pritchard, Smith (when he returns) Dombaxe, Carroll, Stewrat, et al, getting more bench/first team squad action. I wouldn't care if I never saw the limitations of people like Dawson, Walker, Demspey, Livermore, Hudd etc again.

I can remember a similar situation a long time ago when we produced some good young players lime Ian Crook, Mark Bowen etc. and they ended up elsewhere as our team gradually fell apart in the late eighties.
Agree with the sentiment but I feel its a bit harsh on dempsey he's scored some important goals for us, that's not to say some of the kids couldn't have themselves, sigs is blocking their development more imo
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,696
104,981
Again, bingo. Could Mason really have offered less to a team than Dempsey does ? Seriously. It makes my heart sink, my blood boil and other hackneyed cliches.

I can understand AVB's situation, as he was under pressure of immense dimensions this season, especially at the start, but I would swap any more signings this window, for us to start seeing people like Mason, Pritchard, Smith (when he returns) Dombaxe, Carroll, Stewrat, et al, getting more bench/first team squad action. I wouldn't care if I never saw the limitations of people like Dawson, Walker, Demspey, Livermore, Hudd etc again.

I can remember a similar situation a long time ago when we produced some good young players lime Ian Crook, Mark Bowen etc. and they ended up elsewhere as our team gradually fell apart in the late eighties.


Mason was awesome in that youth team a few years back. He got nearly 30 goals as the second striker. He definitely a good player but we dont really know that much about him. Ie. have the injuries hes had set him back, does he have the personal drive to push on/professionalism etc. or is it just that hes not getting chances?
 

GetSpurredOn

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2006
5,022
8,922
I have to admit, I'd be prepared to allow Livermore a bit more leeway given his age, and the fact he does posses a certain anount of athleticism and flexibility positionally (played CM, RB and CB for us), as opposed to Huddlestone who has greater technique but lacks the mobilty for AVB's style of football and can only play CM. Livermore can improve his skills, you cannot really teach agility, well, not to that level anyway. I agree, I'd rather see Huddlestone sold, Falque sold, and maybe even Livermore loaned out and then give the opportunities to Mason, Carroll, Pritchard, Townsend, Parrett etc.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
55,367
100,858
Again, bingo. Could Mason really have offered less to a team than Dempsey does ? Seriously. It makes my heart sink, my blood boil and other hackneyed cliches.

I can understand AVB's situation, as he was under pressure of immense dimensions this season, especially at the start, but I would swap any more signings this window, for us to start seeing people like Mason, Pritchard, Smith (when he returns) Dombaxe, Carroll, Stewrat, et al, getting more bench/first team squad action. I wouldn't care if I never saw the limitations of people like Dawson, Walker, Demspey, Livermore, Hudd etc again.

I can remember a similar situation a long time ago when we produced some good young players lime Ian Crook, Mark Bowen etc. and they ended up elsewhere as our team gradually fell apart in the late eighties.

I assume this pun is very much intended given the italics? :)
 

mw828

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2010
1,122
1,674
Finally read through this thread...some top posts in here. Thanks for making a good read. Love hearing the latest about the youth players at the club as much as possible.
 
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