Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Sp3akerboxxx · Apr 14, 2024

Styopa said:
Maybe but they also had some poor results and were defensively exposed.

For example, They lost 3-0 to Watford, and 3-1 to Swansea. They narrowly beat Norwich 5-4. They lost to Southampton 3-2. They drew at home 2-2 with Sunderland. They drew 3-3 at home to Arsenal. They drew 2-2 at home to West Brom. They lost 2-1 at home to Crystal Palace.

Those aren’t a set of a results of a team that are distinctly hard to get at imo.

Wrong season mate.

That was the season where he joined in mid October.

In his first full season 16/17 they beat arsenal 4-3 and 3-1, beat Watford 6-1 and 1-0, didn't play Norwich because they got relegated. Southampton failed to score against them that season.

They didn't lose a a PL game by more than 2 goals in his first full season.

Trix · Apr 14, 2024

gavspur said:
Yeah, I didn’t watch the game yesterday as I was working, and I haven’t bothered with the highlights. If we need a 6 to sit, split the CB’s when in possession, sniff out opposition counters, and also have a a good range of passing, then why have we never given Skipp a chance there? I mean, that is his natural game and his favoured position. Hojbjerg has too many clangers in him when under pressure, although his work rate and professionalism is to be applauded. So yeah, I’d give Skipp a go at the 6 role for a few games.

Skipp at 6
Change up the set piece coaches
Swap out underperforming players (Madders, Werner etc)
Try and get some rhythm back, I think we’re way too predictable.

Because he's not good enough in possession playing out under a press.

jurgen · Apr 14, 2024

Mr Pink said:
We lost because we were completely out worked all over the pitch.

They wanted it way more

First 10 games we were getting fouled all over the shop because we were one step quicker than the other team.

Lately we’ve often been at least one step slower - however in the patches where we raise the intensity, we look good again (i.e. blasting Villa out of sight).

A lot of this has got to be on the players for me, they are playing slow, not pressing hard enough, dallying and fannying on the ball.

Maybe the system involves risk but if the players don’t take those risks and go into their shell it makes things doubly shite…

Styopa · Apr 14, 2024

Sp3akerboxxx said:
Wrong season mate.

That was the season where he joined in mid October.

In his first full season 16/17 they beat arsenal 4-3 and 3-1, beat Watford 6-1 and 1-0, didn't play Norwich because they got relegated. Southampton failed to score against them that season.

They didn't lose a a PL game by more than 2 goals in his first full season.

Fair enough. But then we can’t really compare Ange’s actual first season to Klopp’s first full season after a full eight months at the club.

Klopp joined after just 8 matches of the 2015/16 season. So he had 30 Premier League matches before his first “proper” season. Ange has only just reached 32 Premier League matches.

jurgen · Apr 14, 2024

Sp3akerboxxx said:
Wrong season mate.

That was the season where he joined in mid October.

In his first full season 16/17 they beat arsenal 4-3 and 3-1, beat Watford 6-1 and 1-0, didn't play Norwich because they got relegated. Southampton failed to score against them that season.

They didn't lose a a PL game by more than 2 goals in his first full season.

You’re really determined to ignore that first season aren’t you, yet Klopp had an extra six months of work to where we are with Ange.

Misfit · Apr 14, 2024

There really doesn't seem to be a need to even tweek the system. A quality DM to sit and act as part of a back three in transition when necessary. That will help hugely without Ange compromising his principles.

Easier to say than go out and find one though I suppose. Especially with his much they tend to cost these days.

Sp3akerboxxx · Apr 14, 2024

Styopa said:
Fair enough. But then we can’t really compare Ange’s actual first season to Klopp’s first season after a full eight months at the club.

Klopp joined after just 8 matches of the 2015/16 season. So he had 30 Premier League matches before his first “proper” season. Ange has only just reached 32 Premier League matches.

I think the importance of having a pre season and a summer transfer window cannot be understated.

But that's besides the point. I'm saying there is no comparison to be made between Ange and Klopps first seasons, and it seems that you agree with that.

Mr Pink · Apr 14, 2024

jurgen said:
First 10 games we were getting fouled all over the shop because we were one step quicker than the other team.

Lately we’ve often been at least one step slower - however in the patches where we raise the intensity, we look good again (i.e. blasting Villa out of sight).

A lot of this has got to be on the players for me, they are playing slow, not pressing hard enough, dallying and fannying on the ball.

Maybe the system involves risk but if the players don’t take those risks and go into their shell it makes things doubly shite…

Agreed. Ange has to fire them up more though.

Not working hard enough should never be acceptable.

Sp3akerboxxx · Apr 14, 2024

jurgen said:
You’re really determined to ignore that first season aren’t you, yet Klopp had an extra six months of work to where we are with Ange.

As I said, I don't think there is a comparison to be made.

I also don't think that a full pre-season and a summer transfer window can be underestimated.

Mr Pink · Apr 14, 2024

Ha ha

Locotoro · Apr 14, 2024

Trent Crimm said:
He’s literally said he’s never / not going to change. It’s also totally poss to have a 20 year + career in football and not learn. Depends what level you at and what league you in. Lower leagues are full of these types

He doesn't say he's not going to change. He said he's not compromising on his philosophy. Exactly the same thing Klopp, Arteta and Guardiola have said in the past. But each of them tweaked it when it suited them.

Do you think if we didn't sell Kane that we'd be playing the same way? Of course we wouldnt. He'd have us set up different to maximise Kane's skills in the box. This idea that he won't change regardless is really far fetched. In 12 months time, I'd love to come back to this post and see if he's still playing the exact same system

Joe Bjorn Hotspur · Apr 14, 2024

someone ask Sky for the ariel shot over the emirates with their fans running towards the tube station en masse please.

greaves · Apr 14, 2024

Locotoro said:
He doesn't say he's not going to change. He said he's not compromising on his philosophy. Exactly the same thing Klopp, Arteta and Guardiola have said in the past. But each of them tweaked it when it suited them.

Do you think if we didn't sell Kane that we'd be playing the same way? Of course we wouldnt. He'd have us set up different to maximise Kane's skills in the box. This idea that he won't change regardless is really far fetched. In 12 months time, I'd love to come back to this post and see if he's still playing the exact same system

And besides, different players will inevitably (organically) change the ‘system’.

TOLBINY · Apr 14, 2024

So what is it in Ange's CV that leads people to believe he is a good choice as a long term project manger for a club that is aiming to challenge for Prem titles? He doesn't seem to stay anywhere that long at club level (so not very promising for a long term rebuild project) , he is 58 years of age (so hardly up and coming) with no previous Prem experience?

RuskyM · Apr 14, 2024

TOLBINY said:
So what is it in Ange's CV that leads people to believe he is a good choice as a long term project manger for a club that is aiming to challenge for Prem titles? He doesn't seem to stay anywhere that long at club level (so not very promising for a long term rebuild project) , he is 58 years of age (so hardly up and coming) with no previous Prem experience?

You can find many answers to this if you're genuinely curious - from Kulusevski's article to interviews with players, from journalists who've covered Ange to posts in this very thread explaining why people are convinced Ange is the solution. However, It seems you've decided that he's not the answer, which is fine, but it doesn't really feel like you're open to having your mind changed here.

parj · Apr 14, 2024

Dov67 said:
We didn’t lose yesterday because of Ange's style of football tactics, and we didn’t lose/get thumped because they have better players than us - like Fulham, they dont.

We lost because some of our better players like Bissouma and Maddison are not playing to anything like their potential and because VDV who has had an outstanding first season made two uncharacteristically bad errors in a two minute spell.

Players lose form, players make mistakes. That’s why you have big squads.

But what is unacceptable is that the other main reason we lost is that they physically outfought us to every loose ball and were first to every loose ball. They showed balls and grit and fight and we were timid.

I said after the Fulham game, that Ange would have made his mark at this club when results like yesterday and Fulham are as rare as a comet rather than sadly predictable.

The score line was unpredictable, but the match I think was predictable.

As soon as we face a team sitting deep against us, we are going to struggle. The pace we play at is way too slow so we take no advantage of any space.

funkycoldmedina · Apr 14, 2024

He might not be the final answer for us or he might be , but he has done painful rebuilds which previous coaches haven't been prepared to do and if he does leave he will leave us with a balanced, young squad which a new coach can alter if they want without having deadwood on high wages.

SpursSince1980 · Apr 14, 2024

Trix said:
Which key areas mate because a long ball over the top is causing as many problems as anything else. I agree that it can be tightened up and we can keep possession better cutting down opportunities, but not by much.

This is the Premier league. Opposition players are better than he's faced anywhere else and they punish you more than in Scotland, Japan or Australia, and that's the difference.

But do you think he can adapt? If not, then it’s hard to see him being successful for all the reasons many are rightly pointing out. Primarily, there is no pragmatism in the way he sets the team up to play. That’s tricky and can be costly in such a competitive league.

SpursSince1980 · Apr 14, 2024

TOLBINY said:
So what is it in Ange's CV that leads people to believe he is a good choice as a long term project manger for a club that is aiming to challenge for Prem titles? He doesn't seem to stay anywhere that long at club level (so not very promising for a long term rebuild project) , he is 58 years of age (so hardly up and coming) with no previous Prem experience?

Are you asking why people believe he can be successful? Just ask it that way.

Would you like to see him replaced this summer? (Im not asking to cause an argument, just curious, as your post infers that you don’t think he’s the right coach to lead us to the top)

SpursSince1980 · Apr 14, 2024

I felt that three of our four goals allowed yesterday were down to errors. The corner was the most concerning of all the goals, as it had been coming. And clearly we are struggling against set pieces but don’t seem to be addressing the issue.

Also at fault yesterday was our pedestrian and weak attacking movements. Too many were making errors, playing it safe, or simply not brave enough. Moreover, the pressing was pathetic. Which put immense pressure on our defense.

Ange has to be less cavalier and dogmatic in his approach. Some pragmatism against tricky opponents should be considered. Continuing with Biss, Madders, and Porro lately has been strange. As they are all a little off form. Admittedly we don’t have many better options, but let’s say we had started yesterday with PEH instead of Biss and Royal and Davies instead of Porro and Udogie. I wonder if there would be a difference?

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