Next Manager Watch

ginola99 · Jun 4, 2023

Buggsy61 said:
Just set the dogs on them!

Lol

Used to live in Chichester, after Pompey I was pleasantly surprised to see we were the most supported team in the area. Although I moved in during 2009/10 when they did us in the Cup! Wasn't a fun weekend at all.

Wearegoingtowintheleague · Jun 4, 2023

bigfrooj said:
I don’t know much about modern Scottish football but I get the impression that Lennon was all about bringing out the aggression and hatred in the City to motivate his team at the same time his main rivals Rangers were in all kinds of trouble. AP seems to motivate by bringing out the best in his team and being loved and accepted by the fans, playing high quality Manchester City type football in a mostly low quality league. A guy that’s taken thirty years of the hard yards to get where he is and now wants to take his big opportunity. A guy known to dare and to do.

It appeals to me, I’m fed up with the managers like Mourinho, Nuno and Conte and their brand of football. I don’t just want a fairy tale, I want to enjoy watching my beloved Spurs again.

I'm with you, I didn't think Mourinho, Nuno or Conte were the right fit, but I supported them all as i will with the next manager. Saying that there was a period under both Mourinho and Conte that I did enjoy watching us, it was just very brief.

I do worry though that because we are so fed up with defensive football that we will just settle for any manager that plays on the front foot. There are loads of managers aside form Ange who play attacking football and are proven in leagues with a higher standard of football such as Slot, JN and Poch who were all available.

Kirito · Jun 4, 2023

Nayim60yards said:
It is also a significant moment for the club, given that it sets a new world record of winning eight domestic Trebles.

Rangers sit 2nd in the world records with 7

People talk about Bayern being the only club in Germany, they have 1 treble -

Apparently this is wrong so if we look at the Prem instead, there has been 1 domestic treble winner - Man City

SpursForever71 · Jun 4, 2023

JUSTINSIGNAL said:
I agree. My main point is most of us know fuck all. We’re just filtering what smidgen of agenda driven information we have through either a positive of negative lens dependent on our overall feelings about the club at any one time.

yep 100%, i know fuck all, which is why i am just waiting to see how things pan out

Wearegoingtowintheleague · Jun 4, 2023

Lancaster Spur said:
Doesn't Tim Sherwood have the best points per game average of any Premier League Spurs Manager?

Having no knowledge of the relative strengths of the teams in Japan compared to those who came before and after means I can't make any conclusions of those stats for teams.

Having watched our games under all our recent managers I can absolutely say that Tim Sherwood was never up to the task despite his average so we shouldn't dismiss any potential candidate based off stats alone.

He did if you want to include his small sample size of 28 games including the cup, if so his PPG is 1.91, Poch is on 1.90 but over a period of 203 games or Conte 1.88.

So whilst I agree we shouldn't go by stats alone, I do feel PPG give a decent comparison on managers performance, but with the obvious caveat that for any stats to be meaningful you need a decent sample size. I'd argue that Sherwoods isn't and he was thankfully sacked, had he not been his PPG would have ended up much lower.

mil1lion · Jun 4, 2023

Spursberg said:
OK at least we get our moto back right?
If appointing a manager that at the age of 57 more or less only have a good run with Celtic to his name. Noone can say that Spurs is not "To dare is to do" right.......

Surely this is a daring appointment though?

Wearegoingtowintheleague · Jun 4, 2023

mil1lion said:
Surely this is a daring appointment though?

'Daring or cheaper?

ukdy · Jun 4, 2023

Kirito said:
Rangers sit 2nd in the world records with 7

People talk about Bayern being the only club in Germany, they have 1 treble

Talking about Celtic and Rangers' treble 'achievements' playing in a league where the other teams are;

The Dog and Duck
The Red Lion
The Spread Eagle
The Pig and Whistle
The White Horse
The Mason's Arms
The Plough
The Bell
The Royal Oak
The Kings Arms

Adam456 · Jun 4, 2023

Wearegoingtowintheleague said:
I'm really not seeing it with Ange. I get that he says some positive things to players and that he wants to play attractive football. He is likable which is a bonus too.

However, with his record in Scotland being very similar to Neil Lennon's time managing there, i thought I'd look at his record at his previous club to see if I'm missing something.

From his time at Yokohama Marionos.

His PPG was 1.66

The two managers after him
Hideski matsunaga (only 5 matches mind) 2.40
Kevin muscat (86 matches) 1.95

Before him
He matched Erick Mombaerts 1.66
and Yashuhiro Higuchi 1.67

So looking at both his time at Celtic and Yokohama his stats really don't stand out.

Would we be looking at Kevin Muscat who has outperformed him at Yokohama or Neil Lennon who matched him at Celtic?

I'll back him 100% if he gets that job, but I'd be lying if I said I don't have major concerns, if things don't start well it's not like he has an amazing record that we can fall back on.

It has the makings of a perfect storm, a poor start by us, Chelsea getting off to a great start under Poch and Arsenal coming out the blocks flying and I hate to think how toxic things could become.

On his stats in Japan - yes the overall PPG may have by almost identical before he was appointed but this lacks context. If he completely changed their style of play then it may have required the loss of quite a few games in doing so. But presumably he got there because he then delivered the league title which would need imply a PPG in a season of probably well > 2. For the managers after him, they may well have benefited from the coaching he had already given the players or, indeed, it just reverted to the long run average

He has won titles wherever he has been and the only question is can he apply that in the hardest league in the world and at one of the most difficult clubs

I am quite happy for him to try because at least it will be attractive football

Nebby · Jun 4, 2023

The disrespect being shown towards Ange is embarrassing.

beats1 · Jun 4, 2023

yojambo said:
I say outside of Barca because we dont have a team that is remotely comparable to what that team was. Luis Enrique did a great job there, played great football, but he also had phenomenal players, and i cant see how you could play the same way with this Spurs side.

So outside of Barca his best job was 8th place finish 10 years ago. I'm being harsh but i just find it underwhelming.

Even with Spain, in the two tournaments he took charge, Euro 2020 and Qatar 2022 he technically, across both tournaments, only won 3 games. Again i know i am being hash but i just dont see anything to get excited about in how he would do well at Spurs.

If he ended up our manager i would back him and hope for the best, i dont have a vendetta or anything. Just looking at his history i find it all a bit meh.

So its his fault that the last time he managed a club team 10 years ago that wasn't barca

Spain, he won 3 games but you overlook he took Spain to the Semis losing with this team:

Oyarzabal
Olmo ---------------------- Torres
Koke --- Pedri
Busquets
Alba - Laporte --- Garcia - Azipilcueta
Simon

The fact he took this team to the Semi's is a massive achievement not a criticism. Xg for Spain vs Italy was Spain 1.74 vs Italy 0.74

In the world cup, he knocked out a young Germany team out of the groups with this team, losing to semi finalist Morocco on penalties:

Asensio
Olmo ---------------------- Torres
Gavi --- Pedri
Busquets
Alba - Laporte --- Rodri - Llorente
Simon

The XG for Spain was 1.55 vs Morocco 0.82

Spain had no goalscorer and really lacked talent that they play Rodri in CB

knowlespurs · Jun 4, 2023

Nebby said:
The disrespect being shown towards Ange is embarrassing.

Just wait till he starts

only1waddle · Jun 4, 2023

Looks like we're all at a similar view with Ange, ticks all the boxes from a human perspective for us, likable, motivator, a teacher but won't tolerate laziness, can manage up, enjoys a rebuild, connects with fans, attack minded.

The only reservation, and warranted IMO, seems to be how the football will translate in a stronger league, or more specifically, gaps/dropping off in the press, the high line and getting caught on the break too easily.

Mason has already played the high line/pressing game under Poch and I'm sure that experience will be beneficial if he is made assistant but I'm worried, big call, big transition and we'll certainly get taken apart without serious investment at CB, if it is Ange the board can't hang him out to dry, or any other coach coming in.

Goobers · Jun 4, 2023

Nebby said:
The disrespect being shown towards Ange is embarrassing.

There has been some for sure but there has also been appreciation of what he seems to have and bring as well as some very reasonable concerns about his (potential) appointment.
if you read some
Of the opinions from fans when he was appointed in Glasgow there was a very close correlation.
Now I have this mate who is a Celtic fan ............

beats1 · Jun 4, 2023

Kirito said:
Rangers sit 2nd in the world records with 7

People talk about Bayern being the only club in Germany, they have 1 treble

Talk about misleading, Bayern to do the treble have to win a European competition, in Scotland they have 3 domestic competitions

Also Bayern did the Treble in 2013 and 2020 when they won the CL

Also Rangers haven't done the treble in 2 decades. As opposed to Celtic who have done it 5 times in the last 6 years

Kirito · Jun 4, 2023

beats1 said:
As opposed to Celtic who have done it 5 times in the last 6 years

Magic!

kd2000 · Jun 4, 2023

Trix said:
If there is going to be a new poll, I think we need to know how many SCers have Celtic supporting mates.

Surely the only choices are 90% or 100%

XIIIMPC · Jun 4, 2023

I wanted Mourinho and Conte because I was fine with being absolute bastards. Slow, boring, vicious, irritating, cheating bastards. But the part that was supposed to come with that (winning stuff) never materialised, so I'll take Postecoglou if it means playing some nice stuff again.

Wearegoingtowintheleague · Jun 4, 2023

Adam456 said:
On his stats in Japan - yes the overall PPG may have by almost identical before he was appointed but this lacks context. If he completely changed their style of play then it may have required the loss of quite a few games in doing so. But presumably he got there because he then delivered the league title which would need imply a PPG in a season of probably well > 2. For the managers after him, they may well have benefited from the coaching he had already given the players or, indeed, it just reverted to the long run average

He has won titles wherever he has been and the only question is can he apply that in the hardest league in the world and at one of the most difficult clubs

I am quite happy for him to try because at least it will be attractive football

That is true that his stats this year in the league are better than his stats last season.

Although, he is still a way off the achievements of what Brendon Rodgers did for Celtic in 2016-2017 when he won the treble and was undefeated in domestic competition, winning 34 and drawing 4 of the league games.

It should be noted that Brendon took over a very dispirited club. The previous incumbent had left behind a bloated squad with low morale and little direction. However, Under Rodgers, the on-field play was also wonderful to watch, the players gelled together, youth players worked hard and the established players were revitalised. The form was consistently good and the play wonderful to watch. He also got the best out of players who were deemed finished such as Scott Brown.

The point in all this, is what Ange has achieved at Celtic isn't that remarkable. He's matched Lennon, but playing better football, but hasn't matched 'the invincibles' that was achieved by Brendon Rodgers.

None of this is an insight into whether he will be a success as THFC, but if he is going to become our manager we really need to lower the expectations based on what he has previously achieved.

jay2040 · Jun 4, 2023

fishhhandaricecake said:
I’d actually argue that it wouldn’t be luck and that it’s just taken quite a while to evaluate options and make the final appointment, by all accounts Slot was by far the n.o1 choice, we couldn’t get him so have identified Big Ange, L.Enrique and Amorim and are likely to go for Big Ange or L.Enrique, all who play fairly nice attacking football so by all accounts we’ve actually identified a consistent type of Manager so if whoever we land on does well then I wouldn’t in this case say that’s by ‘luck’.

I’ve criticised Levy for years on his handling on the football side and lack of plan but it’s important to be balanced and fair, some Managers he’s hired have been poor and bad choices but some like Redknapp and Poch worked out very well.

Before people say it that we could’ve ended up with Van Gaal, we didn’t, Levy had Poch on his final 2, went for him and it worked out really well.

Do I wish we had more of a plan and were more decisive? Yes.

Am I still concerned about how the football side of the club is being run? Yes.

Am I also balanced and objective enough to recognise that the club did an internal review and audit of both the player recruitment and football strategy and are perhaps realising they need to adapt and operate differently and by that have appointed Munn in a newly created role and structure and have been targeting 3-4 Managers who all play the style of play we want to see? Yes.

I think the issue is as much as we all very much appreciate info etc, when it’s constantly worded in such a dramatic and negative fashion without us being able to ask Q’s or know the full details then it can get a bit tiring because others have a habit of jumping on this and wallowing in and exacerbating the doom and gloom.

Like I said at the start of the process, Levy is a ‘blue’ analytical type personality, so things get overanalysed and dragged out but if at the end of this process we hire a manager who is a good fit and who aims to play the type of football we want to see and develop younger players and build a new project then like Jol, Redknapp and Poch, it is possibly to make this job a vague ‘success’ under Levy’s reign and for us to most importantly enjoying watching and supporting the team again.

I like how you ask a question to only then answer it yourself!

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