Harry Kane

Thenewcat · Oct 13, 2020

rossdapep said:
Would be nice if England and Southgate felt the same way when Sterling or any of the Liverpool boys pull out.

Absolutely spot on that they need to stop pushing him. Just look at Rooney, burnt out by 30.

We have just played Harry 10 times in under 30 days. So far Southgate has played him for 20 mins out of 180. Let’s see what happens shall we?

As for Rooney, that’s not remotely similar. Rooney was playing senior football from 16, didn’t have a very athletic body type and didn’t look after himself as well as Harry. Him being past it by 30 was nothing to do with England

thebenjamin · Oct 13, 2020

Thenewcat said:
We have just played Harry 10 times in under 30 days. So far Southgate has played him for 20 mins out of 180. Let’s see what happens shall we?

As for Rooney, that’s not remotely similar. Rooney was playing senior football from 16, didn’t have a very athletic body type and didn’t look after himself as well as Harry. Him being past it by 30 was nothing to do with England

It's clearly true though that number 9s have to be protected more than others from the physical load on their bodies. Rooney, Fernando Torres, Michael Owen were all basically finished before they were 30. Yes they started earlier than Kane, but they were also at clubs that had another striker so they didn't have to play every minute of every game like Kane does.

If the country wants Kane to be fit and firing for the Euros, is it really worth playing him in what is ultimately a totally meaningless game after just missing a few days training with a 'fatigued muscle' ?

Or would it just be better for him to rest?

Kiedis · Oct 13, 2020

Well, at least we'll get to see if Vinicius can hit the ground running, eh?

"

"

Thenewcat · Oct 13, 2020

thebenjamin said:
It's clearly true though that number 9s have to be protected more than others from the physical load on their bodies. Rooney, Fernando Torres, Michael Owen were all basically finished before they were 30. Yes they started earlier than Kane, but they were also at clubs that had another striker so they didn't have to play every minute of every game like Kane does.

If the country wants Kane to be fit and firing for the Euros, is it really worth playing him in what is ultimately a totally meaningless game after just missing a few days training with a 'fatigued muscle' ?

Or would it just be better for him to rest?

I haven’t commented on whether he should play - as others have pointed out our bias as spurs fans is different to Southgate’s, but so far I have seen nothing to suggest Southgate has been reckless with player health. We all know Harry will be wanting to play as well.

My wider point is people are getting very worked up on here about something that hasn’t even happened yet, and bringing up totally different players like Owen (reliant on speed, dodgy hamstrings), Rooney (totally different body type and playing history, and Torres (just went a bit shit) doesn’t prove anything. If Spurs were that worried about his workload he didn’t need to play 75 mins against Maccabi when we were 3 goals clear by halftime for example. Our attitude can’t just we can flog him to death but England should always rest him

thebenjamin · Oct 13, 2020

Thenewcat said:
I haven’t commented on whether he should play - as others have pointed out our bias as spurs fans is different to Southgate’s, but so far I have seen nothing to suggest Southgate has been reckless with player health. We all know Harry will be wanting to play as well.

My wider point is people are getting very worked up on here about something that hasn’t even happened yet, and bringing up totally different players like Owen (reliant on speed, dodgy hamstrings), Rooney (totally different body type and playing history, and Torres (just went a bit shit) doesn’t prove anything. If Spurs were that worried about his workload he didn’t need to play 75 mins against Maccabi when we were 3 goals clear by halftime for example. Our attitude can’t just we can flog him to death but England should always rest him

you can't see a correlation between players who play number 9 and their body being unable to sustain their career? Torres 'went a bit shit' because he couldn't do the job physically any more.

Thenewcat · Oct 13, 2020

thebenjamin said:
you can't see a correlation between players who play number 9 and their body being unable to sustain their career? Torres 'went a bit shit' because he couldn't do the job physically any more.

I can’t see a correlation between you cherry picking 3 players (2 of whom started their top level careers very early) and overall health of number 9s. Lots of players in all positions are done at the very top by 30, and lots aren’t. Overall I would say the biggest risk is players who are highly dependent on speed like Torres and Owen

wrd · Oct 13, 2020

Let's hope the worst case scenario is avoided, If we have to start with Vinicious against West Ham to protect Kane then so be it but I think Kane needs to take a leaf out of sterlings book going forward if the England camp are going to want him to play through muscle tightness. It's not worth the risk in these pointless games.

The Opinionated Lurker · Oct 13, 2020

thebenjamin said:
you can't see a correlation between players who play number 9 and their body being unable to sustain their career? Torres 'went a bit shit' because he couldn't do the job physically any more.

Torres’ knee injury in 2010 finished him as a top striker. Literally lost a yard of pace and just couldn’t get into positions to use his finishing anymore. The move to Chelsea was the nail in the coffin as the fee ruined his confidence. Fully went from one of the best strikers in the world to a joke in the space of about 2/3 years. Injuries will do that and that’s why we have to try and protect Kane

Colonel Dax · Oct 13, 2020

Thenewcat said:
I haven’t commented on whether he should play - as others have pointed out our bias as spurs fans is different to Southgate’s, but so far I have seen nothing to suggest Southgate has been reckless with player health. We all know Harry will be wanting to play as well.

My wider point is people are getting very worked up on here about something that hasn’t even happened yet

According to the Guardian article posted on the previous page Jose himself is concerned:

"José Mourinho is strongly against Gareth Southgate’s plan to start Harry Kane for England in the Nations League tie with Denmark on Wednesday night and has communicated his concerns to the national setup."

Whether you want to believe press articles is up to you. Obviously pinch of salt required. However given Harry's injury history recently I don't blame fans or indeed the Tottenham coaching staff for wanting to be cautious.

14/04/91 · Oct 13, 2020

McArchibald said:
I'll be very happy if Vinicius is able to really take some load off Kane's shoulders and allow him to have rests at strategic points in the season. We've been running him into the ground over the last few seasons and it can't go on. Kudos to Jose Mourinho for putting his foot down and insisting on a striker being brought in.

We all will but the point is it should be Mourinho's choice when Vinicius is used. It won't be ideal if he's forced to play because Kane is out for a number of weeks with a thigh injury that should've been rested when it was only a niggle.
Vinicius needs to be eased in.

I'd like to think Kane himself won't play if he feels something isn't right. It'd be a big risk.

spursfan77 · Oct 13, 2020

samspurs92 said:
It’s all kicking off in the papers again about Kane’s fitness.

I think Kane needs to start being smarter with his body and if he has been having muscle problems then he needs to stop pushing his body to play in games, it is really short sighted.

How much of this is the papers stirring up a Mourinho v Southgate row though?

I bet if Poch was still our manager it would be reported differently.

Thenewcat · Oct 13, 2020

Colonel Dax said:
According to the Guardian article posted on the previous page Jose himself is concerned:

"José Mourinho is strongly against Gareth Southgate’s plan to start Harry Kane for England in the Nations League tie with Denmark on Wednesday night and has communicated his concerns to the national setup."

Whether you want to believe press articles is up to you. Obviously pinch of salt required. However given Harry's injury history recently I don't blame fans or indeed the Tottenham coaching staff for wanting to be cautious.

Agree with everything you’ve said. Just pointing out there is no evidence at this point that Southgate is cavalier in regard to the issue (and we also know Harry will be itching to play). The fact that he rested Harry for Wales and only gave him 20 mins against Belgium is evidence he is being careful, albeit his risk calculation will not be the same as ours as spurs fans (or indeed Jose’s)

jonnyrotten · Oct 13, 2020

I think the difference between the likes of KDB, Sterling etc and Harry is his desire to play. If it wasn't for this i'd imagine he'd be back at our training ground by now. Scoring goals and achieving targets is his motivator. He'll be wanting to get within 15 goals of Wayne Rooney's record by the end of this season.

Colonel Dax · Oct 13, 2020

Thenewcat said:
Agree with everything you’ve said. Just pointing out there is no evidence at this point that Southgate is cavalier in regard to the issue (and we also know Harry will be itching to play). The fact that he rested Harry for Wales and only gave him 20 mins against Belgium is evidence he is being careful, albeit his risk calculation will not be the same as ours as spurs fans (or indeed Jose’s)

Fair enough. Let's hope Harry's fit and firing for West Ham on Sunday ?

kent brockman · Oct 13, 2020

Southgate gate aside, I certainly hope that Jose will manage Harry’s fitness properly going forward.

Whereas I appreciate that the lack of backup options has forced us to overplay him in the past - I truly hope that Vinicius is up to it, and that he will also be played enough to prevent Harry from running himself into the ground.

BringBack_leGin · Oct 13, 2020

I really think the media are making something out of nothing.

13VanDerBale13 · Oct 13, 2020

wrd said:
Let's hope the worst case scenario is avoided, If we have to start with Vinicious against West Ham to protect Kane then so be it but I think Kane needs to take a leaf out of sterlings book going forward if the England camp are going to want him to play through muscle tightness. It's not worth the risk in these pointless games.

Exactly. the onus is on Kane to speak up, but because he is England captain he'll always want to play.

Jose needs to teach him to put club before country.

yankspurs · Oct 13, 2020

samspurs92 said:
It’s all kicking off in the papers again about Kane’s fitness.

I think Kane needs to start being smarter with his body and if he has been having muscle problems then he needs to stop pushing his body to play in games, it is really short sighted.

Kane is desperate to play for England. If Englnd wasnt his #1 priority, Soithgate would send him back to get fit. But it is. He’ll push it for England, come back, get injured for 6 weeks, and then push his recovery for the sole purpose of getting back for England duty in a months time.

spids · Oct 13, 2020

thebenjamin said:
It's clearly true though that number 9s have to be protected more than others from the physical load on their bodies. Rooney, Fernando Torres, Michael Owen were all basically finished before they were 30. Yes they started earlier than Kane, but they were also at clubs that had another striker so they didn't have to play every minute of every game like Kane does.

If the country wants Kane to be fit and firing for the Euros, is it really worth playing him in what is ultimately a totally meaningless game after just missing a few days training with a 'fatigued muscle' ?

Or would it just be better for him to rest?

There were different reasons for each of the players you mention being 'finished before they were 30'.

Owen had serious hamstring injuries and lost his pace. But he actually joined Man U in the year he turned 30 and was there until he was 33, so not really finished, just a totally different player as he had no pace and was effectively a goal poacher super sub (17 goals in 52 games across 3 years).

Torres had serious knee injury that also took his pace which was his prime asset.

Rooney I think of as being like a boxer whose weight balloons between fights, eventually the booze, cigarettes and junk food caught up with him. He never relied purely on pace, but he was at Man U for 18 - 31 years old and won everything.

With Rooney and Owen they played a lot of PL games as teenagers - Rooney 109 and Owen 79. Torres played a similar number of times as a teenager for Atletico Madrid (debut at 17, captain at 19). Kane did not start a PL game for us until his 21st year.

Kane does not drink or smoke, has a healthy lifestyle 365 days of the year and does not rely on pace. Like Sheringham he can play until he is in his mid-thirties IMO.

mark87 · Oct 13, 2020

BringBack_leGin said:
I really think the media are making something out of nothing.

Surely not.

Forums

What's new

Matches

Sportsbook

Members

Harry Kane

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

SC Supporter

Well-Known Member

Beware of the Daviesaurus

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Enic Out

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads