Racist abuse in our stands, we need to face it if it’s there.

RikkiRocket · Dec 23, 2019

JCRD said:
This will be an unpopular opinion I know but unless there is evidence, eye witness of racism then how do we know for sure?

Im not saying Rudiger misheard but what stops someone (who I may or may never have spoken to before) going to the police etc accusing me of saying something racist? If we are going to go down this line... then it can be dangerous

The Man City incident - there was clear evidence of it, Bulgaria there was clear evidence... this incident? not so much and not yet anyways but thats why i think the media attention is unwarranted for now...

However yeah throw the damn book at the fucker if there was any racism...

LeParisien said:
I watched the game in San Francisco and saw replays of Rüdiger pointing out monkey noises 10 minutes after they happened. 4/5 hrs after the game people here had seemingly not seen the footage? Perhaps these were people at the game ? Or did sky/BT not show it?

There is evidence - Rüdiger’s accusation. We need to take those accusations at face value.

We don’t have a problem in football with false accusations of racism against innocent people. We have a problem with racism.

We are no more racist than any other club but we don’t need to throw Rüdiger under the bus to save ourselves.

Do you live in San Francisco?

LeParisien · Dec 23, 2019

Gb160 said:
No ones doing that, just pointing out there is a chance that he misheard something for monkey noises.
Answer this, why have the club not been able to find any video evidence of the allegation?

What’s the evidence for that ? Have the club said that?
Even if true, to claim that’s significant you have to know how long it takes to identify people in this sort of case. Do you? Perhaps these things typically take 48 hours.

There is a chance there was no racism but we have to take accusations seriously and at face value before trying to cast doubt on the claims with zero reason to do so.

Misfit · Dec 23, 2019

LeParisien said:
What’s the evidence for that ? Have the club said that?
Even if true, to claim that’s significant you have to know how long it takes to identify people in this sort of case. Do you? Perhaps these things typically take 48 hours.

There is a chance there was no racism but we have to take accusations seriously and at face value before trying to cast doubt on the claims with zero reason to do so.

There is a chance there was racism. We have to take the accusations seriously and at face value before treating the claims with validity with zero reason to do so.

yido16 · Dec 23, 2019

Seems latest statement, suggest no evidence of the racist chanting towards Rudiger , but they are still investigating

worcestersauce · Dec 23, 2019

LeParisien said:
I watched the game in San Francisco and saw replays of Rüdiger pointing out monkey noises 10 minutes after they happened. 4/5 hrs after the game people here had seemingly not seen the footage? Perhaps these were people at the game ? Or did sky/BT not show it?

There is evidence - Rüdiger’s accusation. We need to take those accusations at face value.

We don’t have a problem in football with false accusations of racism against innocent people. We have a problem with racism.

We are no more racist than any other club but we don’t need to throw Rüdiger under the bus to save ourselves.

Yes we've seen that footage he's telling someone, maybe his capatin, that's what he heard, as far as we know the action's are entirely his own as he didn't say he'd seen anything. People aren't saying it's false accusations as in he's lying but if there is no footage and no corroboration they are beginning to wonder if he was mistaken.
Look I want the investigation to come up with confirmation but this whole thing must be handled properly. I saw someone on twitter arguing that the other players didn't hear it because they were white and so weren't tuned in to it which demonstrates the ignorance of people who just want to be involved, they didn't know that half the players on the pitch were black.
The bottom line is that true or not the fact that it doesn't surprise people is because it has happened too many times before and the country at this present time is rife with it and that is the real disgrace.

KingKay · Dec 23, 2019

The problem is it’s basically fake news at this point. Even if no one was actually racist, people don’t remember the correction.

Gb160 · Dec 23, 2019

LeParisien said:
What’s the evidence for that ? Have the club said that?
Even if true, to claim that’s significant you have to know how long it takes to identify people in this sort of case. Do you? Perhaps these things typically take 48 hours.

There is a chance there was no racism but we have to take accusations seriously and at face value before trying to cast doubt on the claims with zero reason to do so.

Christ, read the club statement about 5 posts up.

LeParisien · Dec 23, 2019

Misfit said:
The universal honesty of humanity. Hahahahaha

Gb160 said:
Based on there being zero evidence, besides the allegation.

I don’t know where to begin with this. People are sometimes dishonest so we should be sceptical about all claims of racism until they have been proven?

I would rather an approach if, we will take seriously all claims of racism and thoroughly investigate them. If people are not believed then it will deter people from speaking out or confronting the problem. There’s really good evidence to suggest that.

King of Otters said:
An accusation is not evidence. It’s an accusation, which needs to be corroborated with evidence to be proved as fact.

No one here has talked about throwing ’Rüdiger under the bus to save ourselves’. What a shitty thing to say.

An accusation is enough evidence for us to take seriously the idea that it did happen. We should try to corroborate it rather than casting doubt on the accusation.

If, when all is said and done, we cannot corroborate the claim then we can start asking why and how this happened. To do that at this stage is premature and defensive. We should not be defensive about this as a fan base. Racism is a problem in society and it says nothing about us as a club that angry dickheads choose to behave so badly. Our response does so a lot about us...

RikkiRocket said:
Do you live in San Francisco?

No - wife’s family live here so we visit every year

worcestersauce · Dec 23, 2019

KingKay said:
The problem is it’s basically fake news at this point. Even if no one was actually racist, people don’t remember the correction.

I don't like the term fake news in this instance, I won't level that at Rudiger.

fedupyid · Dec 23, 2019

The only person arrested was a Chelsea Fan was for racist abuse against Son. Rudiger has previously made up racist abuse against him. It is time the FA do the right thing and eject that racist club out the league.

LeParisien · Dec 23, 2019

worcestersauce said:
Yes we've seen that footage he's telling someone, maybe his capatin, that's what he heard, as far as we know the action's are entirely his own as he didn't say he'd seen anything. People aren't saying it's false accusations as in he's lying but if there is no footage and no corroboration they are beginning to wonder if he was mistaken.
Look I want the investigation to come up with confirmation but this whole thing must be handled properly. I saw someone on twitter arguing that the other players didn't hear it because they were white and so weren't tuned in to it which demonstrates the ignorance of people who just want to be involved, they didn't know that half the players on the pitch were black.
The bottom line is that true or not the fact that it doesn't surprise people is because it has happened too many times before and the country at this present time is rife with it and that is the real disgrace.

That person on Twitter is an idiot.

I basically agree with you. To question the absence of evidence at this stage, we need to know the expected length of time of this sort of investigation. I don’t think we do so let’s be patient and let things run their course before pre-judging.

Everlasting Seconds · Dec 23, 2019

Makes up shit about racism.
Plays for Chelsea.

Gb160 · Dec 23, 2019

LeParisien said:
I would rather an approach if, we will take seriously all claims of racism and thoroughly investigate them.

Thats exactly what the club have done...and come up with diddly squat.

bloodzeed · Dec 23, 2019

During yesterday’s match against Chelsea, Antonio Rudiger reported hearing alleged racist abuse from an individual(s) in the South Stand.

We are able to track every fan via the cameras and have spent many hours reviewing CCTV footage. We have engaged lip readers to study the footage and contacted Chelsea for further information from their players. We have also taken statements from other parties present at the time. The police will be reviewing our evidence alongside us. Please be assured we shall be exhaustively investigating this matter.

This Club has a proud track record of anti-racism work across all our communities and we are determined to ensure that we conduct a thorough investigation. Any fan found to be guilty will receive a lifetime ban. At this time however we should point out that our findings are inconclusive and would ask that comment is reserved until the facts are established.

If anyone has any further information they should please email [email protected] or text 07537 404821.

In respect of protocols – when the incident was conveyed to the referee Anthony Taylor, he took the decision to call for the implementation of Stage 1 of the UEFA protocol – rather than the Premier League protocol - and asked for an announcement to be made, as well as requesting a further announcement which created a misconception that any issue was on-going. The Premier League protocol differs from UEFA protocol in that it does not call for an announcement rather that the individual(s) be dealt with by the Safety Team in the first instance.

We have asked that the Premier League clarifies the position regarding the use of these protocols to all stakeholders going forward.

LeParisien · Dec 23, 2019

Gb160 said:
Thats exactly what the club have done...and come up with diddly squat.

Club Statement

During yesterday’s match against Chelsea, Antonio Rudiger reported hearing alleged racist abuse from an individual(s) in the South Stand.

www.tottenhamhotspur.com

Just read it. They’ve also said what I’ve said. Investigation ongoing and let’s properly investigate before prejudging.

You and others are unnecessarily defensive about this.

KingKay · Dec 23, 2019

worcestersauce said:
I don't like the term fake news in this instance, I won't level that at Rudiger.

I’m not saying it was fake news though. Just comparing the end result should it turn out to be incorrect.

FinnYid · Dec 23, 2019

LeParisien said:
I basically agree with you. To question the absence of evidence at this stage, we need to know the expected length of time of this sort of investigation. I don’t think we do so let’s be patient and let things run their course before pre-judging.

We are able to track every fan via the cameras and have spent many hours reviewing CCTV footage. We have engaged lip readers to study the footage and contacted Chelsea for further information from their players. We have also taken statements from other parties present at the time. The police will be reviewing our evidence alongside us. Please be assured we shall be exhaustively investigating this matter.

I think that statement says quite a lot

LeParisien · Dec 23, 2019

FinnYid said:
We are able to track every fan via the cameras and have spent many hours reviewing CCTV footage. We have engaged lip readers to study the footage and contacted Chelsea for further information from their players. We have also taken statements from other parties present at the time. The police will be reviewing our evidence alongside us. Please be assured we shall be exhaustively investigating this matter.

I think that statement says quite a lot

I fully agree with that statement. It gives confidence that the club is doing everything it can to corroborate the accusations and that the process is ongoing.

Well done to the club.

srups34 · Dec 23, 2019

Reading the Club statement would suggest to me there is very little evidence if any at all of racist behaviour from that part of the ground.

LeParisien · Dec 23, 2019

srups34 said:
Reading the Club statement would suggest to me there is very little evidence if any at all of racist behaviour from that part of the ground.

At this time however we should point out that our findings are inconclusive and would ask that comment is reserved until the facts are established.

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