The Mauricio Pochettino thread

Everlasting Seconds · Nov 6, 2019

jacko73 said:
Eh - he has overperformed in the Premier league for 7 years with both Tottenham and Sounthampton and you think he has no strategy. This premier league whilst he has been here has had the best managers in the world in our league, no one can debate that and he has finished above every single one of those managers and you think he had no strategy.

Last year we all moaned that we could not score in the first half and we somehow found a way to score and win right up until January. So who was responsible for the turnaround in the second half of games?

His sequence (5,3,2,3 and 4)is only bettered by Bill Nicholson in the league since the late 50's, lets ask a question. would Bill have been sacked in year 1 if the internet was around and we had 24 hour sports shows (he finished 18th)?

I keep seeing things like he hasn't won away from home since January. Then go in the Var thread and see we were unlucky at leicester, everton and arsenal were Var has savaged us. The only other places we have been were Man City and Liverpool, so we could say Poch has been robbed in 3 matches by Var on his travels and the only shit result we have had was Brighton.

We have a young coach who is still learning his trade, but he has Tottenham above all of these world class coaches at some stage. He is having a tough year, give him a break.

I don't agree that he has over performed. As far as I remember Southampton finished 8th, which at the specific point in time was reaching their potential but not much more. I remember thinking that the team they had and the quality of the rest of league meant that the finish was probably fair. The next seasons without Pochettino they finished around that level as well. As for Tottenham, again I find that he has performed very, very well. But I wouldn't call it overperformance.

Yes, he has had a strategy. Getting (young) players very fit and motivated. It was a good strategy. Up until the point that the young team has become a seasoned team, the other teams have caught up in fitness and the motivation is lacking.

I've said before for several seasons that he is still learning and that as long as he keeps learning in the job, I'm fine with that. The issue I see, is that he is in fact not really developing his skills that much.

spursfan77 · Nov 6, 2019

Stropy

Shadydan · Nov 6, 2019

Everlasting Seconds said:
I don't agree that he has over performed. As far as I remember Southampton finished 8th, which at the specific point in time was reaching their potential but not much more. I remember thinking that the team they had and the quality of the rest of league meant that the finish was probably fair. The next seasons without Pochettino they finished around that level as well. As for Tottenham, again I find that he has performed very, very well. But I wouldn't call it overperformance.

Yes, he has had a strategy. Getting (young) players very fit and motivated. It was a good strategy. Up until the point that the young team has become a seasoned team, the other teams have caught up in fitness and the motivation is lacking.

I've said before for several seasons that he is still learning and that as long as he keeps learning in the job, I'm fine with that. The issue I see, is that he is in fact not really developing his skills that much.

Southampton had the 14th highest wage bill that year so they overachieved.

jacko73 · Nov 6, 2019

Everlasting Seconds said:
I don't agree that he has over performed. As far as I remember Southampton finished 8th, which at the specific point in time was reaching their potential but not much more. I remember thinking that the team they had and the quality of the rest of league meant that the finish was probably fair. The next seasons without Pochettino they finished around that level as well. As for Tottenham, again I find that he has performed very, very well. But I wouldn't call it overperformance.

Yes, he has had a strategy. Getting (young) players very fit and motivated. It was a good strategy. Up until the point that the young team has become a seasoned team, the other teams have caught up in fitness and the motivation is lacking.

I've said before for several seasons that he is still learning and that as long as he keeps learning in the job, I'm fine with that. The issue I see, is that he is in fact not really developing his skills that much.

When i said overperformed i mean always above teams that have way bigger budgets. That southampton team that he got to 8th position had the same players that came up from Div 1 and the championship. His style was to go at everyone from the off, he was not sit back with low blocks like say Dyche for instance who also had a creditable season with Burnley.

Thanks for conceding that he does have strategy, this was the main point in my post.

If his strategy was to get good young players very fit and playing well, why have we stopped giving him these players. The answer to that lies somewhere between Poch and levy and I think that this is where our frustration should be. I think the last signing that went into our first team from the off was Wanyama who had 1 great season and then has been out for 2 so that means we have gone 4 seasons without buying a first team player. I realise that some of you will say Sissoko is now, but he wasn't and that fact is is disgusting. Because Liverpool and city have been buying new teams in that time and even Arsenal have as well, but more disgusting was letting Leicester buy so many good young players from the Championship is even worse. We have forgotten what we were good at. Its criminal, listen maybe Poch has been part responsible for some of this, I am not discounting that. But if we as a club look at what he is good at getting young players in and making an excellent team and then giving him a lot of old players to work with is criminal.

Sp3akerboxxx · Nov 6, 2019

jacko73 said:
Eh - he has overperformed in the Premier league for 7 years with both Tottenham and Sounthampton and you think he has no strategy. This premier league whilst he has been here has had the best managers in the world in our league, no one can debate that and he has finished above every single one of those managers and you think he had no strategy.

Last year we all moaned that we could not score in the first half and we somehow found a way to score and win right up until January. So who was responsible for the turnaround in the second half of games?

His sequence (5,3,2,3 and 4)is only bettered by Bill Nicholson in the league since the late 50's, lets ask a question. would Bill have been sacked in year 1 if the internet was around and we had 24 hour sports shows (he finished 18th)?

I keep seeing things like he hasn't won away from home since January. Then go in the Var thread and see we were unlucky at leicester, everton and arsenal were Var has savaged us. The only other places we have been were Man City and Liverpool, so we could say Poch has been robbed in 3 matches by Var on his travels and the only shit result we have had was Brighton.

We have a young coach who is still learning his trade, but he has Tottenham above all of these world class coaches at some stage. He is having a tough year, give him a break.

You can't say that when he finished third behind Leicester city managed by Claudio ranieri.

Obviously not the best manaher in the world, and Leicester obviously weren't the best team in the world.

jacko73 · Nov 6, 2019

Sp3akerboxxx said:
You can't say that when he finished third behind Leicester city managed by Claudio ranieri.

Obviously not the best manaher in the world, and Leicester obviously weren't the best team in the world.

But then you are holding him to higher standards than every other manager, as they also did. I concede that Ranieri is the only coach at this moment that has finished above Pochettino with a lower budget, but he is also the only 1 that has done that AT THE MOMENT. That is some record in 7 years.

Everlasting Seconds · Nov 6, 2019

jacko73 said:
Thanks for conceding that he does have strategy, this was the main point in my post.

If his strategy was to get good young players very fit and playing well, why have we stopped giving him these players. The answer to that lies somewhere between Poch and levy and I think that this is where our frustration should be.

Oh, I've never doubted that he has a strategy. The doubt I'm presenting is whether the strategy is still working moving forward.
And yes you are correct, I absolutely do not think that Pochettino bears all of the responsibility for where the club is at presently. But to me, regardless of who has been the most in the wrong in the past, the most pressing question is whether Pochettino is the most right manager to lead this team from where we are at, knowing that there might be a strategic mismatch between transfer strategy and playing strategy. My conclusion, regretfully, is that he might no be the right guy any longer, but that does not in any terms mean that I believe the slight and temporary downfall of Spurs is only his fault.

yankspurs · Nov 6, 2019

spursfan77 said:
Stropy

Huh? Has Ally Gold just not followed Spurs at all for the last 12 months? Poch has been weird in every press conference. He acts different when he steps out of the UK? No. He's acting the same. Confusing, awkward & inconsistent.

jacko73 · Nov 6, 2019

Everlasting Seconds said:
Oh, I've never doubted that he has a strategy. The doubt I'm presenting is whether the strategy is still working moving forward.
And yes you are correct, I absolutely do not think that Pochettino bears all of the responsibility for where the club is at presently. But to me, regardless of who has been the most in the wrong in the past, the most pressing question is whether Pochettino is the most right manager to lead this team from where we are at, knowing that there might be a strategic mismatch between transfer strategy and playing strategy. My conclusion, regretfully, is that he might no be the right guy any longer, but that does not in any terms mean that I believe the slight and temporary downfall of Spurs is only his fault.

He might not be - but in my opinion he deserves a shot based on the fact that whilst he has been in charge our turnover has gone from being 170 million to 450 million and yet he has not bought a single first team player for 3-4 years, until this summer (please don't think I am arguing that we as a club have not signed anyone, but all our buys look like squad players to me until this summer at least).

WiganSpur · Nov 6, 2019

Everlasting Seconds said:
I don't agree that he has over performed. As far as I remember Southampton finished 8th, which at the specific point in time was reaching their potential but not much more. I remember thinking that the team they had and the quality of the rest of league meant that the finish was probably fair. The next seasons without Pochettino they finished around that level as well. As for Tottenham, again I find that he has performed very, very well. But I wouldn't call it overperformance.

Yes, he has had a strategy. Getting (young) players very fit and motivated. It was a good strategy. Up until the point that the young team has become a seasoned team, the other teams have caught up in fitness and the motivation is lacking.

I've said before for several seasons that he is still learning and that as long as he keeps learning in the job, I'm fine with that. The issue I see, is that he is in fact not really developing his skills that much.

I'm Poch out but this is absolute bollocks. When we appointed Poch, I said he took them up another level and I said he'd do the same with us and that's exactly what he did.

Shaw, Fonte, Lambert, Lovren, Schneiderlin, Rodriguez, Lallana, Chambers all massively improved under his coaching. In fact, most of the signings he made were failures, Wanyama aside.

Yes they performed to expectations, but only because the players had clearly gone up a level in quality - because of him. If you'd watched them under Adkins then you'd know this argument is bullshit.

ernie78 · Nov 6, 2019

AnotherSpursFan said:
Son , Korean captain
or
Ali, the Nightclub captain
or
Moura, the benched hattrick hero

Ali???

Moura has hardly played so it would’ve been very strange to then make him captain.
Son, hmmm maybe.

Everlasting Seconds · Nov 6, 2019

WiganSpur said:
I'm Poch out but this is absolute bollocks. When we appointed Poch, I said he took them up another level and I said he'd do the same with us and that's exactly what he did.

Shaw, Fonte, Lambert, Lovren, Schneiderlin, Rodriguez, Lallana, Chambers all massively improved under his coaching. In fact, most of the signings he made were failures, Wanyama aside.

Yes they performed to expectations, but only because the players had clearly gone up a level in quality - because of him. If you'd watched them under Adkins then you'd know this argument is bullshit.

You are full of bollocks and some story telling abilities. If you watched Southampton under Koeman, you would see that top 1/3 of the league really was their level for a few years. The league the year Pochettino finished 8th with them, after failing very bad at keeping them in a Europe league position, was actually rather weak. It was not what it is today, which is greater quality in far more teams. It really wasn't that hard to be the best of the rest in 2013/2014.

WiganSpur · Nov 6, 2019

Everlasting Seconds said:
You are full of bollocks and some story telling abilities. If you watched Southampton under Koeman, you would see that top 1/3 of the league really was their level for a few years. The league the year Pochettino finished 8th with them, after failing very bad at keeping them in a Europe league position, was actually rather weak. It was not what it is today, which is greater quality in far more teams. It really wasn't that hard to be the best of the rest in 2013/2014.

You are missing the point. He didn't take over a team that was expected to finish 8th. I agree that he didn't over perform with what he had in the latter part of his reign. But what he had was decent because he was the one that improved them in the first place!

It's like the usual arguments from Spurs fans saying that Poch got lucky because he had Kane. It was under Pochettino's tutelage that Kane became the monster he is now. Do you not see what i'm getting at?

If you are going to be revisionist about his time at Southampton, then surely the same applies to Spurs. As i've said, I want him gone now as I don't think he's got the fire in his belly anymore, but it's just pure revisionism to say he didn't take us up a level, just like he did at Southampton.

Ronwol196061 · Nov 6, 2019

PLTuck said:
ummmm….. ok?

No idea what this has to do with what I've said, or indeed what I replied to, but yeah all power to you.

Sorry think I meant to reply to a different post or it was something to do with the man management comment.
Sorry may have got ahead of myself

spursfan77 · Nov 6, 2019

Might as well stick this in here Rather than the match thread. I still don’t buy the players being stale, I think it’s a convenient excuse for Poch and a veiled dig at Levy.

Hoddle speaking like hes ITK at the start.

Shadydan · Nov 6, 2019

ExCuSeS!!!111

Oscar22 · Nov 6, 2019

Interesting with BT Sport showing the difference in his win percentage in his time here, must say I knew things had been bad but didn’t realise how much it had regressed.

muppetman · Nov 6, 2019

Oscar22 said:
Interesting with BT Sport showing the difference in his win percentage in his time here, must say I knew things had been bad but didn’t realise how much it had regressed.

You should read SC - loads of people will happily tell you all about... at length!

Hercules · Nov 6, 2019

Mega congratulations gaffa??

fishhhandaricecake · Nov 6, 2019

Hercules said:
Mega congratulations gaffa??

No, congratulations will be if he plays the same team against sheff Utd rather than bringing Eriksen etc back in.

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