The Mauricio Pochettino thread

mike_l · Oct 5, 2019

nedley said:
No fucking wonder when no fucker came in for two windows.

I'd think of leaving too.

You'd think of leaving if your employers showed faith in you?

I think they more likely downed tools when he openly spoke about wanting to get rid of most of them and start from scratch.

Awkwardly they're still here and bizarrely still starting, but why would you want to play for a manager that didn't want you playing for him?

Real_madyidd · Oct 5, 2019

rossdapep said:
Remember when the players used to make regular posts on social media showing great team spirit etc.

Haven't seen any for a while

Sissoko has today.

rossdapep · Oct 5, 2019

mike_l said:
You'd think of leaving if your employers showed faith in you?

I think they more likely downed tools when he openly spoke about wanting to get rid of most of them and start from scratch.

Awkwardly they're still here and bizarrely still starting, but why would you want to play for a manager that didn't want you playing for him?

I don't think they've downed tools but whereas before they were willing to run through walls for him now they are going out there without faith and belief.

Poch said that 'We need to first play for ourselves and our families" I thought that was quite telling, almost like he knows some have stopped playing for him and he's subtly telling them that if they can't play for their families then what?

You lose just 5% of energy, belief, confidence in this game and it makes a huge difference.

Primativ · Oct 5, 2019

For me what is doing my head in, is Poch is just saying "oh the last two games ok we lost".

He's playing it down so badly. We've been atrocious since Feb. As in losing loads of games. Our form has been shite for even longer.

I don't see anyone challenging him on it at all though. No journo's are asking him about 2 points out of 30 on the road.

No one is asking him about 17 losses in 2019. More than any other PL side.

It just shows the guy is totally out of ideas.

rossdapep · Oct 5, 2019

Real_madyidd said:
Sissoko has today.

What did he say/do?

Mr Pink · Oct 5, 2019

Real_madyidd said:
Sissoko has today.

And no coincidence that he's one of the few trying his best on the pitch.

Where's the inspiring speaches from the rest of them, from the ones who havnt been up for it...

Mr Pink · Oct 5, 2019

rossdapep said:
What did he say/do?

In the Sissoko thread.

mike_l · Oct 5, 2019

rossdapep said:
I don't think they've downed tools but whereas before they were willing to run through walls for him now they are going out there without faith and belief.

Poch said that 'We need to first play for ourselves and our families" I thought that was quite telling, almost like he knows some have stopped playing for him and he's subtly telling them that if they can't play for their families then what?

You lose just 5% of energy, belief, confidence in this game and it makes a huge difference.

To me that just sounds desperate, what does it even mean, play for their families? They're set financially for a couple of generations probably, Tottenham losing isn't gonna matter much to their families.

Hakkz · Oct 5, 2019

mike_l said:
You'd think of leaving if your employers showed faith in you?

I think they more likely downed tools when he openly spoke about wanting to get rid of most of them and start from scratch.

Awkwardly they're still here and bizarrely still starting, but why would you want to play for a manager that didn't want you playing for him?

The company I work for have been talking about developing and expanding our team, yet over the last 2 years the only thing that has happened is that people have left. Yeah, that makes me question the motivation of those above me and if I want to stay where I am.

g_harry · Oct 5, 2019

I think its more Poch has lost faith in this group of players. Thats why he talked about re-build. However Levy couldnt clear out all the players Poch wanted rid. Hes now in a position thats hes got players in last year of contract but also players know that Poch doesnt really want. Levy def has to share bit part of blame and must give poch time.

desert spur · Oct 5, 2019

rossdapep said:
He literally complained about bring tired from playing the diamond 4 days ago

I think this was misread in the reporting. His fitness levels and dedication are not the issue. But I think he was being a leader by taking the heat re: fitness levels (and maybe even dedication) of others. I'm not defending/demonizing the diamond, but i think the press missed the point of his comments, tbh. Click bait reporting was quick to make his comments into a criticism of tactics.

Hakkz · Oct 5, 2019

g_harry said:
I think its more Poch has lost faith in this group of players. Thats why he talked about re-build. However Levy couldnt clear out all the players Poch wanted rid. Hes now in a position thats hes got players in last year of contract but also players know that Poch doesnt really want. Levy def has to share bit part of blame and must give poch time.

If that includes 5-6 players of our first team (besides Wanyama, GKN and Janssen) then that was never realistic for this summer.

Sevens · Oct 5, 2019

Craigyc said:
Long time lurker and don’t post much, but I feel the need to post about Poch.
This is the man that has elevated the club to a position that 6 years ago we could only dream of, he has taken the club through a tough financial period of stadium building with not spending a great deal of money and had us in title races and a champions league final. I honestly think he has done enough in his time with us to deserve time and backing from us.

I'm sorry, that's not true. We finished in the top four twice under Redknapp in three years before Poch arrived. Even under AVB / Sherwood we never finished outside the top six. Poch's arrival also coincided with the "bigger" teams decline in form and ability, as demonstrated by Leicester winning the title, Chelsea yo yoing up and down the table and Utd wretched form (by their standards). The way some fans react you'd think we were relegation candidates and Poch dragged us up to being top four challengers. I also don't believe we were ever title challengers under him. We were always chasing.

Poch has never been a great tactician. His strength was in obtaining the buy in from certain players (especially younger players) who would then be keenly motivated. The problem is these players have gotten older, injuries have taken their toll on them being able to press like they used to and they no longer have blind faith in the manager.

Another problem we've had over the years is that when Eriksen plays well, so do Spurs. When he doesn't, we struggle. He didn't have a good season last year and his form this season has been abysmal. Without an on form Eriksen, Poch's tactical frailties are laid bare. There are only so many times last minute goals or individual brilliance was going to bail Poch out of a hole.

Do I want him sacked? No. I believe that our league finishes over the last few years have earned him a chance to turn it around IF he wants it. The problem is I don't think he wants it and I think the players have lost their faith in him.

g_harry · Oct 5, 2019

Hakkz said:
If that includes 5-6 players of our first team (besides Wanyama, GKN and Janssen) then that was never realistic for this summer.

Hence the reference to painful rebuild and i am not the manager quotes. He was totally fucked off this summer with our buisness and its probably built up frustration from previous windows.

Hakkz · Oct 5, 2019

g_harry said:
Hence the reference to painful rebuild and i am not the manager quotes. He was totally fucked off this summer with our buisness and its probably built up frustration from previous windows.

As someone pointed out, why isn't he trying to rebuild then? He's still playing the old players that he seemingly wanted out. After their pre-season, Tanganga, Parrot and Skipp should absolutely be playing much more. For example.

rez9000 · Oct 5, 2019

Mandy Dingle said:
I'm torn in just about every direction. The performances have been awful bar a few memory-forging sparks for the past twelve months. The guy has given us so much, peaks higher than I've experienced as a Spurs fan for years, if not decades. Yet there have been troughs, and the one we're in right now would rival the Marianas Trench.

Do I want him to go?

I'm not really sure how to answer it. I want change. I desire improvement and tangible evidence of evolution or revolution but am seeing neither. The situation is so complex as the blame is split just about 33.3% between the players, staff/manager, and owners.

The worst part is I really don't know how to fix the situation with any degree of nuance.

Do we sack Poch and bring about potentially turbulent times? Or do we bench players not performing or who have lost their will and undertake an enormous shake-up of the playing squad?

The answer probably lies somewhere in-between the two. Or maybe it doesn't. Maybe the answer is one or the other.

I'm just so conflicted about the whole thing. I'm sat between anger and disappointment and both emotions are never actionable in a balanced, meaningful way.

That, to me, is the encapsulation of how I feel: utterly conflicted.

want Poch to stay because I want him to succeed; but also want him to go if it will stop the rot, and then the next minute wanting him to stay as I don’t know who we could get that could do more.

It’s horrible.

g_harry · Oct 5, 2019

Hakkz said:
As someone pointed out, why isn't he trying to rebuild then? He's still playing the old players that he seemingly wanted out. After their pre-season, Tanganga, Parrot and Skipp should absolutely be playing much more. For example.

Good point would love the contract rebels and players who dont give all dropped from squad. But i suppose the difficultly is that it includes 3 of our best players. It might show hes the boss again.

Sevens · Oct 5, 2019

Primativ said:
For me what is doing my head in, is Poch is just saying "oh the last two games ok we lost".

He's playing it down so badly. We've been atrocious since Feb. As in losing loads of games. Our form has been shite for even longer.

I don't see anyone challenging him on it at all though. No journo's are asking him about 2 points out of 30 on the road.

No one is asking him about 17 losses in 2019. More than any other PL side.

It just shows the guy is totally out of ideas.

Agreed. We had a load of last minute winners or equalisers over the last couple of seasons that papered over the cracks somewhat.

I think one of our biggest problems is the lack of defensive midfielder. Our best season (IMO) under Poch coincided with two key personnel changes. Wanyama in the midfield and Alli moved up front to play alongside Kane (5-3-2 formation), which effectively got him out of midfield where his losing of possession trying flicks and tricks could do more damage (not to mention be less creative when they did come off).

For some reason Poch decided that Winks could be a DM or that we could play without one. Dier and Wanyama don't get much game time anymore (and when they do they have played poorly, but to counter that there is an argument to be made that they may need a run of games to get up to speed) and yet we've made no obvious effort to replace them. Or at least we haven't been linked with players of that ilk. The funny thing is, this is exactly what cost Wenger over the years. This massive belief that you can get away without playing without a "water carrier" in the midfield of a Premier League team.

Havre · Oct 5, 2019

Ok. So we needed a rebuild, but we were so bad that after having bought two of the most expensive players coming to England this summer as well as keeping the players we wanted to keep we were still destined for this?

Pochettino spent half a decade to build a squad and a culture that was so poor we have to accept 2 points in 30 away from home unless we completely nuke the squad?

Pochettino went Redknapp with his “this is as good as it gets” and now he is getting the same commitment from players Redknapp got. Surprise surprise.

I will always love Pochettino for what he did in his first five years, and especially the first three, but I really don’t see a way back. I hope I’m wrong, but I think another 2 points from 8 games is more likely than this suddenly being a team again. Even more so with players like CE and Alderweireld hanging around. Clearly they would just want the season to end. They got nothing to play for now. First priority not to get injured. Amazing foresight by Pochettino and the club keeping them.

wrd · Oct 5, 2019

rez9000 said:
That, to me, is the encapsulation of how I feel: utterly conflicted.

want Poch to stay because I want him to succeed; but also want him to go if it will stop the rot, and then the next minute wanting him to stay as I don’t know who we could get that could do more.

It’s horrible.

The problem is time, if we were at a stage where it was close to end of season and we could hang in there and let him rebuild it'd be much easier to cling onto Poch. However given we're only 8 games in and the feeling that it might get worse every week makes even the most ardent of us who hope he can be part of the solution conflicted.

The only thing I'm hanging onto now is Lo Celso coming back and making a huge difference and Poch being able to fuck off some of the outcasts, that admittedly is clutching at straws.

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