The Mauricio Pochettino thread

bubble07 · Sep 25, 2019

gavspur said:
I don’t know, but I think the writing was on the wall from the build up to the CL Final. His comments were odd, the team selection was then odd, and the team performance was crap. The Tottenham of two years ago would have won that final, funnily the Tottenham of two years ago never got there! I think he self harmed in that run up, burnt a lot of bridges, and now we’re seeing the aftermath. He’s never been a great tactician, he’s always had a very decent squad here, if he can’t motivate the squad - not jut the first 11 anymore (see above for why) then what else is there for him? To lose last night is embarrassing, it’s like we’ve gone backwards 10 years. I’m sorry Poch, but judging the performances and media crap you’ve said, I’d be looking to replace you before we really damage our season.

Only odd team selection was not starting Lucas over dele

bubble07 · Sep 25, 2019

How much more will Levy take?

dagraham · Sep 25, 2019

Hakkz said:
I don't buy that story at Utd anymore, to 100% at least. Of course Mourinho had some responsibility in the transfers but every manager since Moyes have talked about transfer difficulties and Woodward constantly looking for PR signings like Di Maria.

Not that I’d turn my nose up at Jose, but based on what you’ve described what makes you think it’s anymore likely to work at Spurs?

Gassin's finest · Sep 25, 2019

Just to clarify for you all... if Poche were to leave, by push or jump, its not just him that we lose. The entire coaching staff, physios, and players who are intrinsically linked to him leave as well. That means Hugo and Lamela at the very least. Ndombele and Celso were both convinced to join by him as well.

We fans either don't appreciate or won't admit how much Poche is this club in its current era. Losing him will result in a wholesale change of everything. As opposed to just sorting out a few players and stabilising the current form.

Repeating myself, but reset your expectations of the club this season. Accept that we ain't winning anything this season. The times for this squad to win stuff is gone now. It should have won at least one title and the CL final. Man City and Liverpool have made title challenges redundant for anyone else in the league for at least a couple more years.

I'll take a 6th place finish and Poch rebuilding his squad if it means that we're ready to challenge seriously again next year or after. It's a lot less disruptive than the alternative would be.

rossdapep · Sep 25, 2019

Buggsy61 said:
Poch is the best thing that has happened to us for decades, after years of duff managers and duff players - with a few exceptions of course.
What he has done on limited resources, compared to the rest of the top 6 is nothing short of miraculous, so has bought more time in my view - at least until January February. To sack him now would be lunacy, and promises to put us into a spiral of chaos, that might take a couple of years to get out of.
Poch hasn't helped with some of his comments, which might have been unsettling, but we are in a state of transition and it might be that some of the players (Eriksen, Alli, Kane etc) have lost faith that they are ever going to win stuff with us, and are looking to jump ship - this can have an unsettling effect on the rest of the group.

Mourinho is not a fit for our club - it would never work between him and Levy.
Howe would be a Levy type appointment, but not sure he is right for us now - 3 years ago the answer would have been yes, but we are at a different stage now.
Conte or Allegri might work, but would they come!

Going to be interesting to see what Tottenham Hotspur turns up on Saturday, and what frame of mind the fans will be in. If it starts going wrong then it could get a bit poisonous...……….

But what if the players are no longer responding to him?

How long do you give it if it's obviously done? Not saying it is but the signs are there.

Standing around twiddling our thumbs while the likes of Arsenal get their act together will be regrettable.

Kiedis · Sep 25, 2019

There are players (like Danny Rose) that Poch have been trying to get rid of for two summers in a row to get a more gradual turnover of the squad. Whatever the problems we might have with staleness, it's stuff that he's been vary of and has wanted to prevent.

We've finally started a rebuild with the aquisition of three of the most exciting talents there are, but lack of activity in later seasons means that we're playing catchup somewhat. I think we should untwist our knickers for the time being.

Japhet · Sep 25, 2019

brendanb50 said:
Was just going to post this regarding the JM clamour. He doesn't fit how we operate, it's pretty obvious so time to stop playing football manager.

We are poor at the moment, we have been for a while but lets have a look at the factors involved.

Last season, we lost momentum and had a very poor run in. Why? Lack of signings for a few windows, injuries, squad being stretched. Many many factors. Do i blame Poch for the majority of these problems - no i don't. The squad lacking new faces/investment was a club decision. The club have invested in the stadium and that presumably limited our budget and all Poch ultimately did was refuse a couple of players who he didn't want.

This season, we signed a few great new players who will a) need time to adapt b) need to get up to fitness and c) get fit following some very early bad luck with injuries. Would those players make a huge difference right now? Well possibly not but i'd at least say this is a clear factor in where we are this morning. Poch alluded to the need to rebuild, a couple of players who clearly want away are in the mix still and some of the new faces we'd hoped would change the team a bit aren't available. Ultimately it's a shit place to be but is this all on Poch? Not in my opinion.

He's had a number of tactical blips over the years and he seems to be struggling to motivate/work around some difficult player situations but is any of this unforeseen? People are throwing kneejerk takes around like it's going out of fashion and coming to some pretty wild conclusions. The guy is Spurs. He's built what we have and he can rebuild it given some support.

Senior players need to take some of this burden on as well. A number of them aren't performing and have also caused some behind the scenes friction. In a healthy squad, some of that is good but at the moment, it's toxic. Poch is part of this but players and the cash to replace those players are the hurdles here not just Poch's managerial capabilities.

I agree with all of that but would add that Poch has contributed significantly to the disruption with his own bizarre comments. You can't expect players to be fully focussed when the manager is flashing his knickers at RM every 5 minutes. Levy needs to tell him to put a sock in it and knuckle down til Christmas IMO, then we'll see how the dust has settled. It seems to me though that Poch was much more suited to the plucky underdog role. Now that Levy has given him some top signings he seems to be aware that excuses are running out and if he can't motivate this squad, he'll have a fucking rough time at RM (if they'd even want him on current form).

Metalhead · Sep 25, 2019

freeeki said:
Levy is also keen on seeing his stadium paid for, and a return on his investment.

If you're telling me Levy wouldn't trade in our current "youths" (Skipp and KWP, mostly) for a few trophies then you're deluding yourself.

The only two significant first-teamers from our youth system are Winks and Kane. Who of course are invaluable, but we're hardly running some epic Class-of-'92-esque production line of worldies.

I don't know for sure mate - I'm just musing. The thing is that he won't bankroll a Mourinho spend up. He likes a manager who will, in theory at least build an empire. By the way, I am all for winning trophies - I'm not a 'top 4 is a trophy' supporter - I'm just thinking what Levy's mindset is.

coys200 · Sep 25, 2019

Had Aubameyang scored that penalty and Lucas Moura not performed a miracle firmly believe he’d be picking up his P45 this morning. If he hadn’t before already. Even if we beat Southampton it’s gonna feel a bit hollow. Because we all now know we could be hopeless Vs Bayern or away to Brighton. We need a fantastic run of games from here to restore my faith, not just a great 45 minutes Vs Southampton.

Buggsy61 · Sep 25, 2019

rossdapep said:
But what if the players are no longer responding to him?

How long do you give it if it's obviously done? Not saying it is but the signs are there.

Standing around twiddling our thumbs while the likes of Arsenal get their act together will be regrettable.

I would give him till the spring. If the wheels have really fallen off then and we are floundering in 7th/8th or something then it might well be time to part and get someone in who has a summer to get the squad they want.
There is still time for the squad to clear the air, grow some balls and push on.

freeeki · Sep 25, 2019

Gassin's finest said:
Just to clarify for you all... if Poche were to leave, by push or jump, its not just him that we lose. The entire coaching staff, physios, and players who are intrinsically linked to him leave as well. That means Hugo and Lamela at the very least. Ndombele and Celso were both convinced to join by him as well.

We fans either don't appreciate or won't admit how much Poche is this club in its current era. Losing him will result in a wholesale change of everything. As opposed to just sorting out a few players and stabilising the current form.

Repeating myself, but reset your expectations of the club this season. Accept that we ain't winning anything this season. The times for this squad to win stuff is gone now. It should have won at least one title and the CL final. Man City and Liverpool have made title challenges redundant for anyone else in the league for at least a couple more years.

I'll take a 6th place finish and Poch rebuilding his squad if it means that we're ready to challenge seriously again next year or after. It's a lot less disruptive than the alternative would be.

Given that we have an aging squad who are either running down contracts or playing like they don't want to be here, I fail to see why this would be a negative?

With the exception of Kane, Son, Lucas, Aurier (yes, really), Foyth, Lo Celso, Sessegnon and Ndombele, I wouldn't care if any of the others left at this point.

JimmyG2 · Sep 25, 2019

Gb160 said:
Yes but you're weird Jimmy.

I wear my 'weirdness' as a badge of pride
and Tottenham daring to be different
is what makes us interesting.
Let lesser men follow and be seduced by baubles.

Don't just take my word for it.

'It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low.
And we of Spurs have set our sights very high,
so high in fact that even failure will have in it an echo of glory.'

Sir William Nicholson

ackie · Sep 25, 2019

Gassin's finest said:
Just to clarify for you all... if Poche were to leave, by push or jump, its not just him that we lose. The entire coaching staff, physios, and players who are intrinsically linked to him leave as well. That means Hugo and Lamela at the very least. Ndombele and Celso were both convinced to join by him as well.

We fans either don't appreciate or won't admit how much Poche is this club in its current era. Losing him will result in a wholesale change of everything. As opposed to just sorting out a few players and stabilising the current form.

Repeating myself, but reset your expectations of the club this season. Accept that we ain't winning anything this season. The times for this squad to win stuff is gone now. It should have won at least one title and the CL final. Man City and Liverpool have made title challenges redundant for anyone else in the league for at least a couple more years.

I'll take a 6th place finish and Poch rebuilding his squad if it means that we're ready to challenge seriously again next year or after. It's a lot less disruptive than the alternative would be.

But what if he walks away for RM or Man Utd?

riggi · Sep 25, 2019

The Opinionated Lurker said:
It’s because of the circumstances. He came when the club was genuinely lost and for many was our best manager in decades. However, some genuinely cannot accept that Poch might not be able to do it here anymore.

Ye I do get that and I personally like him but some of our fans need to learn to take the emotion out of it.

Managers come and go and some become cult figures but at the end of the day you look back on trophies not managers. If you can do both then great but let’s put success on the pitch before personalities.

JimmyG2 · Sep 25, 2019

Archibald&Crooks said:
Exactly

Haha, he’s not weird he’s different. But TBF who gives a shit what Henry fucking Ford once said

I do.

freeeki · Sep 25, 2019

Metalhead said:
I don't know for sure mate - I'm just musing. The thing is that he won't bankroll a Mourinho spend up. He likes a manager who will, in theory at least build an empire. By the way, I am all for winning trophies - I'm not a 'top 4 is a trophy' supporter - I'm just thinking what Levy's mindset is.

Someone like Mourinho would very much be a short-term solution, beyond any doubt.

But I would take a short-term solution which bags a few trophies and instills that winning Jose-style arrogance in the club.

As opposed to the current "we got to the Champions League final despite only leading games in the CL for less than three cumulative hours all season therefore we are now beyond reproach" arrogance which has masked a year of terrible performances and is driving us into the dirt.

Gassin's finest · Sep 25, 2019

freeeki said:
Given that we have an aging squad who are either running down contracts or playing like they don't want to be here, I fail to see why this would be a negative?

With the exception of Kane, Son, Lucas, Aurier (yes, really), Foyth, Lo Celso, Sessegnon and Ndombele, I wouldn't care if any of the others left at this point.

You know that I wasn't talking about the squad, but the infrastructure, because I wrote it in my post and I'm sure you read it all.

Gassin's finest · Sep 25, 2019

ackie said:
But what if he walks away for RM or Man Utd?

Then the world ends.

freeeki · Sep 25, 2019

Gassin's finest said:
You know that I wasn't talking about the squad, but the infrastructure, because I wrote it in my post and I'm sure you read it all.

The squad are part of that infrastructure...

Stamford · Sep 25, 2019

starting to feel like I did when Poch came when I hated a load of the players

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