The Mauricio Pochettino thread

austinfh · Sep 25, 2019

Say it ain't so :- (

SpartanSpur · Sep 25, 2019

kaz Hirai said:
So it takes about 7 or 8 months of poor football for spurs fans to completely turn on a coach that's finished
2nd
3rd
Couple of 4ths
And a couple of cup finals

No wanting to give him the season to sort out the squad, just off with his head huh

I remember back in the day Rodney marsh on soccer Saturday saying spurs fans were the most fickle fans in the country. Really pissed me off as a kid hearing that .
Turns out he was right !

No go ahead a neg because it's not an anti pochettino post. Bunch of sheep

In my opinion it would be madness to sack him now as he has far too much credit in the bank. He has literally worked wonders for our club.

However at the same time I genuinely question whether he genuinely has the heart or hunger to actually rebuild this team. His demeanour doesn't exactly seem conducive to this.

Most ITKs seem to be suggesting he has lost the dressing room, and this is a manager who's strongest suit has always been motivation and man management.

IF Poch is fully committed to this rebuild then Levy needs to back him and the players need to put some more faith in him. He certainly deserves another chance.

The scary thing is I fear that the relationship has become too toxic beyond the point of repair. If so dragging it on because we fear it looks too fickle will not serve us well. A tough decision may have to be made. Things are never straight forward in football and as others have mentioned, 8 months in football is actually quite a long time in the modern era (although I'm reluctant to keep throwing last seasons results in to make things look worse as I feel there were extenuating circumstances).

cjsimba · Sep 25, 2019

Hercules said:
He has created all his own problems to be fair. No use talking about January, and waiting until new season for all to settle in. Playing Wanyama for starters is beyond ridiculous, I can’t see him lasting beyond the summer.

His own agenda, and games is going against him. Is the majority of playing staff do not seem to believe in his loyalty anymore.

STRICTLY MY VERY OWN OPINION!!!

In your opinion why do you think the players are questioning his loyalty? He normally says in public he is fully committed. I can only think of the interview where he said he’s like to manage Argentina one day, and yesterday’s silly Real Madrid comment, but the players must have been questioning his loyalty long before then (ie. when the bad patch started). Am I missing some examples where he has said something that suggests he might leave? (Not including the champions league winning comment as for me that suggested more that he wanted to stay until he won such a trophy)

ostrov · Sep 25, 2019

In his first season, Poch took drastic measures. He quickly realized that he had made a mistake by appointing Kabul as captain, Adebayor as vice-captain. Capoue, Lennon, fell into the same clique. They didn’t want to “walk barefoot over the coals”, they didn’t want super intense training. And against the authorities, the young Harry Kane raised his voice and he was supported by all the young players - Dier, Mason, Bentaleb, Lamela. And not very young Rose, Walker, Vertonghen, Lloris. They all backed Poch.
I wonder what was Ericksen’s position then? I think he tried to maintain neutrality.
Chris is now in the role of Adebayor. Who would have thought!
But the task of Poch is now much easier. You just need to make it clear to Eriksen that with such a mental focus, my friend, you need to take a break from football, the team is no good for you. Your personal agenda is bad for the team's morale.
But in practice, he should be removed altogether from the first team even in training, sent to be the playing coach to help Ryan Mason and Wayne Burnett. Will Poch have such toughness?

Primativ · Sep 25, 2019

Is there another coach in the PL who has had such a lengthy list of excuses? Was their another manager who moaned in the summer as much as he did about the transfer window? He had some key players running down their contracts, it's hardly a unique situation. Yet he wouldn't shut up about how damaging and unsettling it all was. He said I can't wait till September comes round and we will be all ok.

September comes round and it just gets worse bar one game v Palace. Now he says we need to wait till January as we need a transfer window? It's a load of nonsense. He's just wheeling out loads of excuses, the guy has clearly lost the plot and is out of ideas about how to get the team back up and running. I think he's showing his limitations. At the end of the day, Levy and the club are never going to get rid of half the squad to give Poch a new team because the current players won't play for him anymore. Especially to a manager who openly talks about leaving all the time. Football doesn't work like that, and frankly why should we put all our faith in a manager like Poch to lead a new cycle when he coached our last golden generation to Zero trophies? Clubs change the manager if the squad is under performing, they don't change the squad and keep the manager.

Nobody can take what Poch has done for this club, but I've always had a nagging feeling which has never gone away, that Poch is good but not quite good enough. He's a very good manager, but isn't elite. His inability to get us over the line to at least one trophy has been galling and a repeated theme throughout his time here. As Trix says, he generally seems more of a motivator than anything. He's never been the best tactically, but when the motivation skills don't have the same effect any more, what else has he got?
.

Lighty64 · Sep 25, 2019

Trix said:
When the motivator can no longer motivate, what else has he got in his locker?

very hard to motivate, when some of them don't want it. they want to be somewhere else and are just picking up their wages until that gets that big cheque next season.

if there was the depth and quality to do it, it might be best to do what's needed now and place those players into an area they can't affect those around.

Until Sess is fit, we can't leave Rose out, we don't really have the quality elsewhere that can compete with Eriksen or at least till Lo Celso is fit and settled.

if Toby and Jan are disrupting and not putting the work in the moment, would Poch trust Tanganga enough to throw him in the deep end? but that would definitely leave us short on cover.

I really hope we start changing from the diamond, and go back to using Dier as a DCM. if that means dropping high energy Sissoko then so be it, his energy and overall game improved last season, but he lacks an end product.

it's very hard to motivate someone that's not interested enough. if a new manager came in things might change with Toby and he might sign another contract, would the club offer Jan a long enough deal due to his age. I'm seriously not worried if Rose and Wanyama were to leave, and if Eriksen wants a new challenge would he see that as a new challenge with a different manager, or is he so intent on leaving no matter who is in charge.

ClintEastwould · Sep 25, 2019

mpickard2087 said:
(I put this in the Match Thread, but it's probably better here)

A few weeks ago I said the worst thing you could level at Poch is that we just looked a badly coached outfit at present. I've never been shy of saying what I do and don't like, going into more detail/obsession than 99.9% of posters and picking things over to the nth degree, and some things we are seeing have been weaknesses that were there all along, but you could never question that we were fit, ran hard, very disciplined and the best Spurs side in 30 years in terms of application and looking well coached. If that's gone, there are problems.

And since then, its just got worse. Take tonight out of the equation, because it's virtually all games recently and goes much deeper than that. Whoever is selected - starter or reserve, superstar or kid trying to make his way in the game - it looks shambolic. One paced, ultra low tempo, little movement (often standing still), little idea, struggling to complete basic 5 yard passes, no press, wide open, defensively shaky, etc. If teams sit behind the ball we're fucked.

Individuals have to be held to account as well, but when we're just stumbling around the pitch (match after match) aimlessly and with no idea, just playing ultra safely and so hesitantly, this is a collective issue and questions have to be asked as to how this is happening and why the team is going out and playing with this mindset and approach - it has to be something they're feeding off, whether direct instruction or otherwise. But there is so much in the detail you can pick apart that shows substandard areas of our game.

Combination play for instance, how often tonight did we see Parrott, Alli, Moura all dropping off towards the ball at the same time, no harmony or trying to work off what the other(s) were doing. I saw at least a dozen times when a fullback had the ball, centre mid made a channel run (but was tracked) opening space inside for an option, when the man with the ball then is looking for said option no Spurs player has reacted and made any movement. Or late on, when Davies time and again failed to recognise that Son had moved inside and so he needed to pull wider and be the option but didn't, and so the ball couldn't be moved left and we got stuck. And so on, with literally 100's of different mechanics of the game that I could highlight, and that go together to help you play as a cohesive unit and achieve better football.

This also goes for our pressing, or lack of it. Mostly players just ambling about making half-hearted or token efforts. Sometimes a random player just chases around and gets taken out of the game as no else follows them. Very little in the way of a collective and disciplined effort. And that just leads to us being open, and then the players further back being put under a lot of pressure and/or overloaded.

Yes there are quite a lot of individuals currently who need to be showing a lot more and deserve criticism, but the manager is selecting them and when the vast majority of the squad are underperforming then the team itself has to come under the spotlight. Poch is the head honcho and the buck stops with him, he's simply got to get a grip quickly and find the solutions. There are big problems but to try and simplify it he's got to get 11 hungry players out on the pitch who want to work hard, defensively get some sort of approach in order -whether that be high press, or sitting behind the ball - carried out in disciplined fashion, and with the ball we've got to see far more urgency and evolve our attacking structures. You're not going to see 100% improvement overnight, but in the coming months we need to start making progress and ride out this real rough patch and bad run of results.

Personally though I think he deserves more time and getting rid at this point would be massively kneejerk. It's entirely possible he might not be able to fix it and at some point a change has to be made, but that's not yet. I'd even be prepared to put up with a scenario like a few more months of struggle, even if it meant this season became a write off, but then progress, fixing certain things, and a strong end to the season and ready to go onwards. He deserves a proper chance to see us out of this bad patch and revitalise the football team.

I'll engage in the hypothetical 'who next' chat though... I see a lot of calls for Mourinho as he's a winner, not for me. If some fans just want a win/trophy be all and end all, fair enough but that's not for me. I cant separate the process from the end result. For me I watch football for the game, the 90 minutes, the tactics and performances and everything in between that interests me, and to be entertained by it to my tastes and standards - I like high line, high press, possession-based technical attacking football. Of course I'd like Spurs to win every match and trophy too, but style of play and what I'm going to be watching week in week out, for me, comes first and I don't think we should just lurch to someone as they're the easily available 'winning' option.

But as I said, there are big concerns and massive improvements needed, but for now Poch has got to be given the opportunity to try and fix it.

Great post ???

DomXYZ · Sep 25, 2019

everyone should've recognised a problem when this guy was willing to sign off on dybala whilst going into the season with aurier, kwp and foyth as our options at RB...that is not the plan of someone looking to make progress

that was pure ego thinking thats a good enough selection, i wonder sometimes if we'd be better if we had a seperate entity to take over the signings

Lighty64 · Sep 25, 2019

danielneeds said:
Man, I wish Poch and the squad would just go to Ibiza during the next Carrabo week, get battered together, and hug it all the fuck out.

won't happen, flights are too dear thanks to Thomas Cook :whistle:

BuckeyeSpurs11 · Sep 25, 2019

My biggest concerns if Poch leaves are as follows:

1. Does Harry stay while a new coach gets settled at the club? He’d surely have major input into the decision.

2. Lo Celso and Ndombele both mention Poch as reasons for coming to Spurs. Does that change anything with a different manager? After all, we have a top 5 training facility and stadium in the world and a club that financially is coming into its own.

3. How painful of a rebuild will it be? Toby, Jan, Eriksen, Rose, probably Hugo would all need to be replaced. Would top players be interested in coming to an Eddie Howe led Spurs? Hypothetically speaking.

BuckeyeSpurs11 · Sep 25, 2019

And to be honest....I’m supportive of Eddie Howe being a future manager at Spurs whether it’s in 3 months or 3 years but would he leave Bournemouth given his loyalty and history with the club mid season?

DomXYZ · Sep 25, 2019

marc aron said:
My biggest concerns if Poch leaves are as follows:

1. Does Harry stay while a new coach gets settled at the club? He’d surely have major input into the decision.

2. Lo Celso and Ndombele both mention Poch as reasons for coming to Spurs. Does that change anything with a different manager? After all, we have a top 5 training facility and stadium in the world and a club that financially is coming into its own.

3. How painful of a rebuild will it be? Toby, Jan, Eriksen, Rose, probably Hugo would all need to be replaced. Would top players be interested in coming to an Eddie Howe led Spurs? Hypothetically speaking.

depends on the manager we bring in

I know people don't want Mourinho at spurs but the reality of the situation is he's the only manager that would:

a. allow us to keep making top signings
b. inspire players to stay and see what he can do

had a bad time at United but still very respected and I personally think if he was to come to us he'd be a breath of fresh air at least short term, as it stands im willing to give poch time to see if he can sort it out but it does feel like the writing is on the wall. if he was to leave or get sacked mourinho is the person I'd want in.

Gassin's finest · Sep 25, 2019

I just think that the love has gone... Throughout the squad and staff.

That final defeat has deeper ramifications than we'll admit.

kcmei · Sep 25, 2019

Gonna be brave and say we should change managers. Got a feeling the players are no longer believing in him and a change of managers will freshen things up

fortworthspur · Sep 25, 2019

to my eye we havent really been awful save the Newcastle game and today was pretty poor. We just have been really inconsistent. Blew two goal advantages at Arsenal and Olympiacos and obviously gave up a lead late at Leicester. We cant seem to put two good halves together. No idea why.

dace · Sep 25, 2019

Why will the January transfer window make any difference? Players that do not want to leave will not, teams will know we are desperate and will price their players accordingly.
We keep hearing that Levy is to blame in not buying players last Summer, yet we have multiple reports of Poch not wanting what was on offer, so perhaps Poch should get more blame here?
We have been turgid for so long now things really have to change.
Poch to RM ? Cannot see that happening, Poch has reached his level here and it is not that of a winner.

the yid · Sep 25, 2019

If he's lost the dressing room going by history there's no way back. Be brave make the change now whilst we can still salvage the season

BringBack_leGin · Sep 25, 2019

mpickard2087 said:
(I put this in the Match Thread, but it's probably better here)

A few weeks ago I said the worst thing you could level at Poch is that we just looked a badly coached outfit at present. I've never been shy of saying what I do and don't like, going into more detail/obsession than 99.9% of posters and picking things over to the nth degree, and some things we are seeing have been weaknesses that were there all along, but you could never question that we were fit, ran hard, very disciplined and the best Spurs side in 30 years in terms of application and looking well coached. If that's gone, there are problems.

And since then, its just got worse. Take tonight out of the equation, because it's virtually all games recently and goes much deeper than that. Whoever is selected - starter or reserve, superstar or kid trying to make his way in the game - it looks shambolic. One paced, ultra low tempo, little movement (often standing still), little idea, struggling to complete basic 5 yard passes, no press, wide open, defensively shaky, etc. If teams sit behind the ball we're fucked.

Individuals have to be held to account as well, but when we're just stumbling around the pitch (match after match) aimlessly and with no idea, just playing ultra safely and so hesitantly, this is a collective issue and questions have to be asked as to how this is happening and why the team is going out and playing with this mindset and approach - it has to be something they're feeding off, whether direct instruction or otherwise. But there is so much in the detail you can pick apart that shows substandard areas of our game.

Combination play for instance, how often tonight did we see Parrott, Alli, Moura all dropping off towards the ball at the same time, no harmony or trying to work off what the other(s) were doing. I saw at least a dozen times when a fullback had the ball, centre mid made a channel run (but was tracked) opening space inside for an option, when the man with the ball then is looking for said option no Spurs player has reacted and made any movement. Or late on, when Davies time and again failed to recognise that Son had moved inside and so he needed to pull wider and be the option but didn't, and so the ball couldn't be moved left and we got stuck. And so on, with literally 100's of different mechanics of the game that I could highlight, and that go together to help you play as a cohesive unit and achieve better football.

This also goes for our pressing, or lack of it. Mostly players just ambling about making half-hearted or token efforts. Sometimes a random player just chases around and gets taken out of the game as no else follows them. Very little in the way of a collective and disciplined effort. And that just leads to us being open, and then the players further back being put under a lot of pressure and/or overloaded.

Yes there are quite a lot of individuals currently who need to be showing a lot more and deserve criticism, but the manager is selecting them and when the vast majority of the squad are underperforming then the team itself has to come under the spotlight. Poch is the head honcho and the buck stops with him, he's simply got to get a grip quickly and find the solutions. There are big problems but to try and simplify it he's got to get 11 hungry players out on the pitch who want to work hard, defensively get some sort of approach in order -whether that be high press, or sitting behind the ball - carried out in disciplined fashion, and with the ball we've got to see far more urgency and evolve our attacking structures. You're not going to see 100% improvement overnight, but in the coming months we need to start making progress and ride out this real rough patch and bad run of results.

Personally though I think he deserves more time and getting rid at this point would be massively kneejerk. It's entirely possible he might not be able to fix it and at some point a change has to be made, but that's not yet. I'd even be prepared to put up with a scenario like a few more months of struggle, even if it meant this season became a write off, but then progress, fixing certain things, and a strong end to the season and ready to go onwards. He deserves a proper chance to see us out of this bad patch and revitalise the football team.

I'll engage in the hypothetical 'who next' chat though... I see a lot of calls for Mourinho as he's a winner, not for me. If some fans just want a win/trophy be all and end all, fair enough but that's not for me. I cant separate the process from the end result. For me I watch football for the game, the 90 minutes, the tactics and performances and everything in between that interests me, and to be entertained by it to my tastes and standards - I like high line, high press, possession-based technical attacking football. Of course I'd like Spurs to win every match and trophy too, but style of play and what I'm going to be watching week in week out, for me, comes first and I don't think we should just lurch to someone as they're the easily available 'winning' option.

But as I said, there are big concerns and massive improvements needed, but for now Poch has got to be given the opportunity to try and fix it.

I agree with every last word of this post.

glacierSpurs · Sep 25, 2019

In a Brave New World is to have Poch walks away. That keeps all dignity, glory and memories we have with him and he will still be our legendary manager in years to come. He will still be invited to our special events.

kendoddsdadsdogsdead · Sep 25, 2019

dk-yid said:
Soooo.... Who are we going to get to replace Poch?

I'm gutted for us and him, but it seems we are at that point.

Managers will be queuing up to manage us, with the backing they’ll get from those above they’ll be collecting pots left, right and centre.

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