Match Threads Spurs vs Liverpool - Match Thread - Champions League Final
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littlemandefoe
Conte's Blue and White Army!
- May 22, 2005
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so gutted
rez9000
Any point?
- Feb 8, 2007
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It can be argued that the penalty decision was within the letter of the law, but wasn’t in the spirit of the law and that’s where the officials have made their error.
We all know why handball is penalised: to prevent players from using their hands to gain an advantage for themselves or remove an advantage for their opposition. That’s the spirit of the law - the reason for the law.
However, a blanket ruling that states that any contact with a hand or arm, deliberate or otherwise is to be penalised is too harsh. For one thing, it is easy to abuse. Mane deliberately smacked the ball into Moussa. That’s not sporting. It’s canny and intelligent, but it’s unsportsmanlike. Yes, it could be argued that Moussa shouldn’t have had his armed raised, but the idea that one’s arms should be plastered to their sides throughout a game is ludicrous.
And that leads to the other problem with the rule: it’s not practical. I can’t remember who said it (could have been Rio Ferdinand) but the logical conclusion of this rule is that players have to play the whole game with their arms plastered to their sides if they want to avoid being penalised for handball. It’s simply illogical.
I can’t say that the ref got the call wrong based on the letter of the law, but he certainly got it wrong in maintaining the spirit of the law.
What rely riles me is that officials are defended with the argument that they have discretion and that they can interpret the laws of the game when making a decision and also that they have to strictly follow the laws of the game. Well, which is it? If they can interpret, then the ref last night should have used the context to allow play to continue. If they have to follow the rules strictly, then there are countless decisions that should never have been made or should have been made but weren’t. How about carding Allison for time wasting? Didn’t see that happen. But the rules are clear on that. Where was the sticking strictly to the letter of the law on that one?
We all know why handball is penalised: to prevent players from using their hands to gain an advantage for themselves or remove an advantage for their opposition. That’s the spirit of the law - the reason for the law.
However, a blanket ruling that states that any contact with a hand or arm, deliberate or otherwise is to be penalised is too harsh. For one thing, it is easy to abuse. Mane deliberately smacked the ball into Moussa. That’s not sporting. It’s canny and intelligent, but it’s unsportsmanlike. Yes, it could be argued that Moussa shouldn’t have had his armed raised, but the idea that one’s arms should be plastered to their sides throughout a game is ludicrous.
And that leads to the other problem with the rule: it’s not practical. I can’t remember who said it (could have been Rio Ferdinand) but the logical conclusion of this rule is that players have to play the whole game with their arms plastered to their sides if they want to avoid being penalised for handball. It’s simply illogical.
I can’t say that the ref got the call wrong based on the letter of the law, but he certainly got it wrong in maintaining the spirit of the law.
What rely riles me is that officials are defended with the argument that they have discretion and that they can interpret the laws of the game when making a decision and also that they have to strictly follow the laws of the game. Well, which is it? If they can interpret, then the ref last night should have used the context to allow play to continue. If they have to follow the rules strictly, then there are countless decisions that should never have been made or should have been made but weren’t. How about carding Allison for time wasting? Didn’t see that happen. But the rules are clear on that. Where was the sticking strictly to the letter of the law on that one?
Josiebyar
Well-Known Member
- Dec 17, 2013
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Thewobbler
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- Oct 29, 2016
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Fair play to mane, he took advantage of sissokos pointing.
Gringospur
Well-Known Member
- Aug 31, 2012
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If the ref had not given the pen and played on, I doubt that many would be going back to the incident to say it was a crucial wrong decision of the game.
The ref could have said Sissoko was in a natural position for giving directions and it was intential ball to arm. The incident would have been forgotten.
sunnydelight786
Chief Rocka
- Jan 7, 2007
- 6,075
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The most disappointing thing about last night was LFC didn’t even get out of first gear. By their extremely high standards this season they were VERY poor. All we had to be was average or slightly above that to have won the game last night. We weren’t.....
The biggest club game of our supposed stars/world class players game last night (Kane/Eriksen/Son/Dele) and they stunk the place out. Hardly laid a glove on them even though we had over 60% of the ball. Simple things like controlling the ball was beyond them at times. Gutted!
The best chance we EVER had of winning a big trophy & for whatever reason our lot didn’t turn up or should I say truly believed they could win it. They, and our fans, have celebrated the last 3 weeks for just reaching a final whilst it seems forgetting we had a prize to play for.
This team is will now breakup and we will look back in a few years time how it failed to win anything......
The biggest club game of our supposed stars/world class players game last night (Kane/Eriksen/Son/Dele) and they stunk the place out. Hardly laid a glove on them even though we had over 60% of the ball. Simple things like controlling the ball was beyond them at times. Gutted!
The best chance we EVER had of winning a big trophy & for whatever reason our lot didn’t turn up or should I say truly believed they could win it. They, and our fans, have celebrated the last 3 weeks for just reaching a final whilst it seems forgetting we had a prize to play for.
This team is will now breakup and we will look back in a few years time how it failed to win anything......
Paceyjg
Well-Known Member
- Jul 9, 2003
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First let me offer my condolences for the loss of your dad.
I agree with everything you said here pal! I'm the same age as you and as such I had prepared myself for defeat. When you have supported Spurs for as long as we have you can't help but know we are going to give ourselves a hard time of it!
slartibartfast
Grunge baby forever
- Oct 21, 2012
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Very well put and I said more or less same thing to my Dad last night.
The hand ball law was brought in to stop blatant cheating in preventing a goal and so a penalty awarded.
Thats not what we are seeing and havent been for years.
slartibartfast
Grunge baby forever
- Oct 21, 2012
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I think you'll find it did.
Josiebyar
Well-Known Member
- Dec 17, 2013
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Of course it decided the game. We were chasing it from the first minute.
DiscoD1882
SC Supporter
- Mar 27, 2006
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The debate for me is that it doesn’t originally hit his arm. It hits his chest. And then bounces into his arm. If it hits his arm straight away. There would be absolutely no argument from me. And as others have said. He didn’t move his arm up to stop the ball. He is gesturing to get cover. That’s why I don’t think it’s a pen.
Josiebyar
Well-Known Member
- Dec 17, 2013
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Show me the exact moment it hits his arm.
sparx100
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- Jan 8, 2007
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Well that was disappointing to say the least. Kane was not fit to start and worryingly is having an ongoing detrimental effect on our team and its style of play.
Our front 4 were all anonymous. Son, Alli and Eriksen were subdued and did absolutely nothing. Sissoko was poor and was covered by Winks (motm) most of the night. No real complaints about the defence or keeper who could do nothing with the goals. Trippier who I thought would get ripped a new one by Mane stood up to the task well and Rose showed the passion and determination with his shift last night.
Really disappointed for Moura who I thought should have started in place of Alli. I felt dirty for suggesting to drop Alli but on last nights performance Poch needs to look at the team and see who has the minerals going forward to move the team in the right direction.
That game was winnable even with a gift from the ref after 25 seconds. Liverpool were poor by their own standards from the season gone, however onwards and upwards and this experience will hopefully galvanise the team and give Levy a shot in the arm to bring out the chequebook to make some fairly significant changes to the squad.
Our front 4 were all anonymous. Son, Alli and Eriksen were subdued and did absolutely nothing. Sissoko was poor and was covered by Winks (motm) most of the night. No real complaints about the defence or keeper who could do nothing with the goals. Trippier who I thought would get ripped a new one by Mane stood up to the task well and Rose showed the passion and determination with his shift last night.
Really disappointed for Moura who I thought should have started in place of Alli. I felt dirty for suggesting to drop Alli but on last nights performance Poch needs to look at the team and see who has the minerals going forward to move the team in the right direction.
That game was winnable even with a gift from the ref after 25 seconds. Liverpool were poor by their own standards from the season gone, however onwards and upwards and this experience will hopefully galvanise the team and give Levy a shot in the arm to bring out the chequebook to make some fairly significant changes to the squad.
hutchiniho
Top Cat
- Mar 19, 2006
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Agree with you, but think Gb is saying we lost 2-0 rather than just that penalty.
Feel more gutted this morning. player for player, lost to a better side (tbf that team has had nearly £400m chucked into it over the last two seasons) but they were nowhere near their best. We've been flat for a while now. Fingers crossed, rainbows ready, we follow their commitment to spend and get better now. Feels like a real potential turning point for the club.
shelfboy68
Well-Known Member
- Jun 14, 2008
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We were gifted a decision like that against city and this time around it didn't fall in our favour, but what didn't help was Liverpool could afford to sit back because we had not a clue what to do in advanced positions so made it easy for them we were no threat at all.
slartibartfast
Grunge baby forever
- Oct 21, 2012
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Just watch it again mate. Its on YouTube. Preferably without your lillywhite tinted glasses on.
I'm not happy it was given.
It was harsh and yes it hits his chest first but to say is didnt hit his arm is talking nonsense when everyone can clearly see it did.
Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
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I don't see what difference that makes Though? It doesn't make any difference as far as the rules are concerned or it doesn't make any difference to the play in general. The ball deflected of his body onto his arm because his arm was stuck out in an unnatural position therefore its a pen under the current rules.
Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
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Watch it again.
hutchiniho
Top Cat
- Mar 19, 2006
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Disagree and Agree - Thought Son looked good when he went central up top. Did more in 10 minutes than Kane did all night.
Kane definitely should have started on the bench. I get the talisman factor, but he looked well off the pace. For me if should have been him to make way for Moura starting. (said this throughout the build up to)
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