The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 30th June

LeParisien · Jul 2, 2018

Archibald&Crooks said:
You were led to believe nothing. You take ITK with a pinch of salt, failure to do that is down to you. So stop complaining and start understanding the nature of it all because you're sitting right on the edge of losing your access and nobody wants to go down that route.

Your argument is that it is down to the reader to add all the salt.

Responsible communication requires the poster to communicate the appropriate amount of caution to what they write. That is not always the case and is a valid criticism.

Still addicted thought aren’t I !!

stonebrow · Jul 2, 2018

Archibald&Crooks said:
You were led to believe nothing. You take ITK with a pinch of salt, failure to do that is down to you. So stop complaining and start understanding the nature of it all because you're sitting right on the edge of losing your access and nobody wants to go down that route.

Fair enough & intention is not to bash which I haven’t but when we are told confidently that ‘Poch is being backed’ & ‘we will spend £150m’ from ITK’s then I’d like to think there is some truth in it...why else are they ITKs & continue to post info?
Yes it’s my choice to believe it, ignore it, awknowledge it may be second/third hand info etc but id also like to have an opinion that I can share with the forum.

Col_M · Jul 2, 2018

LeParisien said:
Your argument is that it is down to the reader to add all the salt.

Responsible communication requires the poster to communicate the appropriate amount of caution to what they write. That is not always the case and is a valid criticism.

Still addicted thought aren’t I !!

When it says “a little birdy told me” or there is a post on the Internet by a farm yard animal, I think that is plenty of warning not to take it on face value.

Primativ · Jul 2, 2018

Still too early to wet the bed. If we still haven't made at least one marquee signing who on paper at least instantly improves our first 11 at least 24 hours before the deadline that is when we can justifiably start panicking.

That said, I'm a bit worried by the lack of links to genuine top quality targets Martial aside. De Ligt has gone very quiet. Plea isn't going to transform us until title winners. The thing is this summer we were led to believe we would finally be spending serious money on proven top tier quality. Plea is just more of the same when we were led to believe this summer is different.

We badly need genuine quality in CM. We need a proper back up for Kane and a WF. Martial is perfect for that.

If we don't sign those players then I do worry for us next season. Dembele is on his last legs. Wanyama had a poor injury ravaged season. Dier seems to have plateued and isn't good enough on the ball he can only screen. We need a Dembele replacement. Wanyama and Dier I'm comfortable can fight for the DM role.

That said. Poch must have been convinced of our ambition enough to turn down Madrid. So Levy surely knows he must deliver. There is still time. The world cup no doubt is slowing the market down big time.

Archibald&Crooks · Jul 2, 2018

stonebrow said:
Fair enough & intention is not to bash which I haven’t

Pretty much everyone who 'bashes' says this. The problem here is that it's not you who's the judge of that.

stonebrow said:
Yes it’s my choice to believe it, ignore it, awknowledge it may be second/third hand info etc but id also like to have an opinion that I can share with the forum.

As long as it sits within the rules. We've had this kind of thing previously and the thread went to seed very quickly that isn't going to happen again. It just isn't. Wether you'd like an opinion or not.

Hercules · Jul 2, 2018

I feel I have to make something very clear. For myself, I post as I hear and see it. Sometimes even more than that. Sess for example and his people have been down to us more than once. Always dependent on promotion. And I believe people with a bit of common would fathom this.

Martial and his people gave us more than hope, and Yanited did not close the door on us, and still have not. He also came down, and I can understand when HertfordYid got excited. We had firm first refusals on Kluivert & Lgit. We decided against the former, and the latter is complicated (very), plus Toby would have to be sold before we engaged with another CH. I am sure common sense is easy on that one.

We officially registered our interest in Plea, and others. But! We have not officially put an offer in! Because we have an interest does not mean it will develop further. All clubs do it, just to cover bases. It is not strictly about money! Citeh can pay over the odds, and then pay 350k in wages, and possibly the same in bonuses etc.

We are behind such clubs, and rightfully so. But! We WILL do good business, all to the agreement of Poch. I expect intelligent people to process information, and then place their expectations accordingly with utter CAUTION.

You will never hear me personally say ‘Done deal’. No way! Been around too long. And don’t even trust the ink in the pen, until it is officially confirmed etc. Even if I have much more information on the situation.

SpartanSpur · Jul 2, 2018

arthurgrimsdell said:
Wow. Knee jerk reaction much?

You open your post trashing my points and understanding of finances by suggesting that my wishes for us to push on this window equates to us signing Mbappe and Neymar (which would indeed kill us financially). It was pretty clear however that my complaints were clearly aimed at us seemingly backing down from Martial to Plea. I think hyperbole is a completely fair rebuttal.

The rest of your post is fair and tallies with a lot of things I have praised Levy and the club for over the years, so is not a fair argument against me. My argument is simply what is the point of working up to this level, only to get here (likely the glass ceiling) and continue to work at the same level as before.

Please read the below and tell me why we should not expect to operate at a higher level this window and going forward (not at oil money or super club level, but at top 10 european club level, Liverpool/Arse/Juve/etc...):-

- Our turnover jumped from £210m in 2015/16 to £306m in 2016/17, projected 2017/18 turnover is well in excess of £350m. Liverpool sustained a wage budget of £200m (twice ours) on a turnover of £302m in 2015/16.
- We have just doubled the highest paid player and manager's wages, this was simply not possible previously.
- Our manager came out and challenged Levy to be more brave in the transfer market before signing said new deal. How does doing the exact same thing achieve that?
- We have publicly courted Martial and De Ligt at mooted club record fees, why waste our time on that if we could only afford the likes of Plea? It's clear we can now approach players of this profile and cost.
- The club is charging some of the highest ticket prices in Europe at the new stadium.
- Plus in respect of this window's expenditure alone, we are likely to see a serious influx of cash due to selling two more key players this window (Toby and Dembele). These fund should be available to reinvest this window.
- Both Poch and Kane have also intimated they will only stay here whilst our ambitions match theirs. This is why now is stick or twist (or shit or get off the pot as per @Grey Fox ).

I've said my piece on the whole situation now but I found your initial response frankly ridiculous, and I feel you are the one with the real 'lack of understanding' of our current financial situation compared to the past. In all likelihood I have over-reacted with the Plea news setting off the Deja Vu alarm, but I stand by the above. I have gone on record saying I still hope to see us make at least one impressive signing this summer, the above points suggest it's acceptable to be hopeful for it.

Archibald&Crooks · Jul 2, 2018

This is what happens when the kids vent.

I swear by the seven blind bastards, if an ITK ever feels he has to justify himself in here again I'll ban some of you from the site for good.

LexingtonSpurs · Jul 2, 2018

yido_number1 said:
Definitely more a Gene Hackman you can't handle the truth tone to it...

Gene Hackman doing a Jack Nicholson impression?

SpartanSpur · Jul 2, 2018

Hercules said:
I feel I have to make something very clear. For myself, I post as I hear and see it. Sometimes even more than that. Sess for example and his people have been down to us more than once. Always dependent on promotion. And I believe people with a bit of common would fathom this.

Martial and his people gave us more than hope, and Yanited did not close the door on us, and still have not. He also came down, and I can understand when HertfordYid got excited. We had firm first refusals on Kluivert & Lgit. We decided against the former, and the latter is complicated (very), plus Toby would have to be sold before we engaged with another CH. I am sure common sense is easy on that one.

We officially registered our interest in Plea, and others. But! We have not officially put an offer in! Because we have an interest does not mean it will develop further. All clubs do it, just to cover bases. It is not strictly about money! Citeh can pay over the odds, and then pay 350k in wages, and possibly the same in bonuses etc.

We are behind such clubs, and rightfully so. But! We WILL do good business, all to the agreement of Poch. I expect intelligent people to process information, and then place their expectations accordingly with utter CAUTION.

You will never hear me personally say ‘Done deal’. No way! Been around too long. And don’t even trust the ink in the pen, until it is officially confirmed etc. Even if I have much more information on the situation.

Great post and 100% how I saw it all (Martial/Sess/Toby/Etc...). I personally really appreciate your info and would never call you out on it.

The links to Plea have worried me but I was always hopeful he was a backup option we are stringing along. I just hope he's more of a plan D than a plan B however. All I want is for us to step it up this summer, and I think we will, I'm just hoping things start to pick up soon with the World Cup starting to wind up.

The thing with Spurs is it's easy to expect the worst, but I'm still optimistic for what the window can still bring.

stonebrow · Jul 2, 2018

Archibald&Crooks said:
This is what happens when the kids vent.

I swear by the seven blind bastards, if an ITK ever feels he has to justify himself in here again I'll ban some of you from the site for good.

I’ll apologise in my part in this but I’ve never vented, I respect what JJ, Trix, Herc & Hertyid post and dispite you telling me to take it with a pinch of salt I know they post in good faith & see truth in it. My point was that things may have changed as it doesn’t appear to me as positive & exciting as it was earlier in window.
Don’t see how believing ITK counts as bashing but obviously I’m not getting my point across.

stonebrow · Jul 2, 2018

SpartanSpur said:
Great post and 100% how I saw it all (Martial/Sess/Toby/Etc...). I personally really appreciate your info and would never call you out on it.

The links to Plea have worried me but I was always hopeful he was a backup option we are stringing along. I just hope he's more of a plan D than a plan B however. All I want is for us to step it up this summer, and I think we will, I'm just hoping things start to pick up soon with the World Cup starting to wind up.

The thing with Spurs is it's easy to expect the worst, but I'm still optimistic for what the window can still bring.

I’m not calling Herc out...I’m a believer.

Lilbaz · Jul 2, 2018

SpartanSpur said:
Great post and 100% how I saw it all (Martial/Sess/Toby/Etc...). I personally really appreciate your info and would never call you out on it.

The links to Plea have worried me but I was always hopeful he was a backup option we are stringing along. I just hope he's more of a plan D than a plan B however. All I want is for us to step it up this summer, and I think we will, I'm just hoping things start to pick up soon with the World Cup starting to wind up.

The thing with Spurs is it's easy to expect the worst, but I'm still optimistic for what the window can still bring.

Or you could hope we get him and he's the next salah?

Lighty64 · Jul 2, 2018

Primativ said:
Still too early to wet the bed. If we still haven't made at least one marquee signing who on paper at least instantly improves our first 11 at least 24 hours before the deadline that is when we can justifiably start panicking.

That said, I'm a bit worried by the lack of links to genuine top quality targets Martial aside. De Ligt has gone very quiet. Plea isn't going to transform us until title winners. The thing is this summer we were led to believe we would finally be spending serious money on proven top tier quality. Plea is just more of the same when we were led to believe this summer is different.

We badly need genuine quality in CM. We need a proper back up for Kane and a WF. Martial is perfect for that.

If we don't sign those players then I do worry for us next season. Dembele is on his last legs. Wanyama had a poor injury ravaged season. Dier seems to have plateued and isn't good enough on the ball he can only screen. We need a Dembele replacement. Wanyama and Dier I'm comfortable can fight for the DM role.

That said. Poch must have been convinced of our ambition enough to turn down Madrid. So Levy surely knows he must deliver. There is still time. The world cup no doubt is slowing the market down big time.

we can only deliver with the funds we have got. de Ligt has changed Ajax now want a bidding war, Martial is difficult because Man U don't want to sell to us, and have upped the fee. if Plea is plan B then it might allow us to compete better if de Ligt is still on the table, but not at the prices Ajax are quoting.

yes we need someone to replace Dembele, but can only compete for what we can afford. the prices going about at the moment are stupid.

rez9000 · Jul 2, 2018

Hercules said:
I feel I have to make something very clear. For myself, I post as I hear and see it. Sometimes even more than that. Sess for example and his people have been down to us more than once. Always dependent on promotion. And I believe people with a bit of common would fathom this.

Martial and his people gave us more than hope, and Yanited did not close the door on us, and still have not. He also came down, and I can understand when HertfordYid got excited. We had firm first refusals on Kluivert & Lgit. We decided against the former, and the latter is complicated (very), plus Toby would have to be sold before we engaged with another CH. I am sure common sense is easy on that one.

We officially registered our interest in Plea, and others. But! We have not officially put an offer in! Because we have an interest does not mean it will develop further. All clubs do it, just to cover bases. It is not strictly about money! Citeh can pay over the odds, and then pay 350k in wages, and possibly the same in bonuses etc.

We are behind such clubs, and rightfully so. But! We WILL do good business, all to the agreement of Poch. I expect intelligent people to process information, and then place their expectations accordingly with utter CAUTION.

You will never hear me personally say ‘Done deal’. No way! Been around too long. And don’t even trust the ink in the pen, until it is officially confirmed etc. Even if I have much more information on the situation.

Archibald&Crooks said:
This is what happens when the kids vent.

I swear by the seven blind bastards, if an ITK ever feels he has to justify himself in here again I'll ban some of you from the site for good.

I'm not going to comment on which players we should or shouldn't get, whether we're punching above, below or at our weight, what ITK said what and when, or any of that. What I will say is that, in my opinion, it's not good to see what @Hercules post above. The fact that he / she felt the need to post that kind of explanation leads us to the chaos that A&C mentioned if it goes on.

We all need to cool our jets just a little bit. I'm not weighing in on any "side" (and I use the term advisedly). I'm not going to venture any opinion about whether we're going to 'do good' or 'do bad' in this window. But I'd rather have transfer windows in which some little grains of information come our way from the ITKs to relieve the tension about who we may or may not sign, than have to rely on the shitehawk sports 'journalists' who are only interested in clickbait and sensationalism. ITKs do that - for me at least. I worry that the vociferousness of some of our commentary could put that at risk.

I can understand how frustration can build and also how that can be viewed by others, because ultimately it's all linked to Spurs who we all want to do well. That engenders passion and rightly so. But there have been times when I've read some of the comments and thought that if I was an ITK who'd posted the info, I'd be rather reluctant to provide info again. I'd hate that to happen and I'm sure most would agree. Passion should always be tempered by reason.

stonebrow · Jul 2, 2018

rez9000 said:
I'm not going to comment on which players we should or shouldn't get, whether we're punching above, below or at our weight, what ITK said what and when, or any of that. What I will say is that, in my opinion, it's not good to see what @Hercules post above. The fact that he / she felt the need to post that kind of explanation leads us to the chaos that A&C mentioned if it goes on.

We all need to cool our jets just a little bit. I'm not weighing in on any "side" (and I use the term advisedly). I'm not going to venture any opinion about whether we're going to 'do good' or 'do bad' in this window. But I'd rather have transfer windows in which some little grains of information come our way from the ITKs to relieve the tension about who we may or may not sign, than have to rely on the shitehawk sports 'journalists' who are only interested in clickbait and sensationalism. ITKs do that - for me at least. I worry that the vociferousness of some of our commentary could put that at risk.

I can understand how frustration can build and also how that can be viewed by others, because ultimately it's all linked to Spurs who we all want to do well. That engenders passion and rightly so. But there have been times when I've read some of the comments and thought that if I was an ITK who'd posted the info, I'd be rather reluctant to provide info again. I'd hate that to happen and I'm sure most would agree. Passion should always be tempered by reason.

I’ve played a part in this & was not my agenda to go against ITK but just to express how I felt that they have changed their stance. Not knocking or disbelieving the info just my opinion on how it may have changed behind the scenes & deals have not progressed to the stage I thought they were.

Spurs 1961 · Jul 2, 2018

Hercules said:
I feel I have to make something very clear. For myself, I post as I hear and see it. Sometimes even more than that. Sess for example and his people have been down to us more than once. Always dependent on promotion. And I believe people with a bit of common would fathom this.

Martial and his people gave us more than hope, and Yanited did not close the door on us, and still have not. He also came down, and I can understand when HertfordYid got excited. We had firm first refusals on Kluivert & Lgit. We decided against the former, and the latter is complicated (very), plus Toby would have to be sold before we engaged with another CH. I am sure common sense is easy on that one.

We officially registered our interest in Plea, and others. But! We have not officially put an offer in! Because we have an interest does not mean it will develop further. All clubs do it, just to cover bases. It is not strictly about money! Citeh can pay over the odds, and then pay 350k in wages, and possibly the same in bonuses etc.

We are behind such clubs, and rightfully so. But! We WILL do good business, all to the agreement of Poch. I expect intelligent people to process information, and then place their expectations accordingly with utter CAUTION.

You will never hear me personally say ‘Done deal’. No way! Been around too long. And don’t even trust the ink in the pen, until it is officially confirmed etc. Even if I have much more information on the situation.

Sorry you had to post this. Must of us appreciate the fine line you need to draw and the reality of trying to do complex deals gives no guarantees. Thanks always for sharing the insights you have. Besides this window with the WC and early closure was always going to be even harder than ever for doing deals

BringBack_leGin · Jul 2, 2018

Archibald&Crooks said:
Apologies for dissing daddy even though it was all tongue in cheek

I’m in recovery from my stag do, full sense of humour lobotomy has taken place.

There was a mankini...

Rout-Ledge · Jul 2, 2018

I’m currrently enjoying the World Cup and signings are an afterthought.

My expectations based on current ITK are very low. Having said that, I don’t see us selling Toby without making at least one quality signing. So something has to give one way or the other...

dfree · Jul 2, 2018

Hercules said:
I feel I have to make something very clear. For myself, I post as I hear and see it. Sometimes even more than that. Sess for example and his people have been down to us more than once. Always dependent on promotion. And I believe people with a bit of common would fathom this.

Martial and his people gave us more than hope, and Yanited did not close the door on us, and still have not. He also came down, and I can understand when HertfordYid got excited. We had firm first refusals on Kluivert & Lgit. We decided against the former, and the latter is complicated (very), plus Toby would have to be sold before we engaged with another CH. I am sure common sense is easy on that one.

We officially registered our interest in Plea, and others. But! We have not officially put an offer in! Because we have an interest does not mean it will develop further. All clubs do it, just to cover bases. It is not strictly about money! Citeh can pay over the odds, and then pay 350k in wages, and possibly the same in bonuses etc.

We are behind such clubs, and rightfully so. But! We WILL do good business, all to the agreement of Poch. I expect intelligent people to process information, and then place their expectations accordingly with utter CAUTION.

You will never hear me personally say ‘Done deal’. No way! Been around too long. And don’t even trust the ink in the pen, until it is officially confirmed etc. Even if I have much more information on the situation.

My main concern is that time is ticking: just over a month left and it seems we're still stuck in stalemate over the main deals. Especially with Martial, where they don't want to sell, you'd have to think chances of a deal diminish as time goes on

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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 30th June

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