Let's All Laugh At... Let's all laugh at Liverpool thread

rossdapep · Sep 10, 2017

heelspurs said:
Usually love your post...this is not one of them. Please explain to me how you judge a man's intent? Before you waste any time trying to conjure up anything the answer is 'you can't'. You can look for proxies but you can never tell what is in a man's mind. Mane has form for leaving a little in challenges. Think of how many times he did it to Danny last year at the lane. He probably should have been sent off twice that game. I am NOT saying he intended to foot him in the face. I AM saying that he was reckless and endangered another player so it was a red. All the other stuff you write is immaterial to the referees decision.

Answer a question for me: Why are children told to not run with scissors? Also the reason why you shouldn't raise your studs 6 feet high while approaching another player. You may laugh and think it's silly to bring in a child's lesson but the reasoning of the 'Not a red for me, jeff' gang is about at that level.

This. If we judged every challenge on intent then we'd get absolutely know where as it's impossible to know if there was intent. That's why we have these rules - to remove the element of a decision based on opinion.

It's alright the likes of Shearer sitting there saying "I'd have gone for it" but that was 20 years ago and the game has progressed in terms of safety and player protection.

Mr Pink · Sep 10, 2017

barry said:
In a tight game, if Kane was in Mane's situation ( only chance to beat the keeper to the ball is with a high foot) what would you want him to do?

heelspurs said:
Usually love your post...this is not one of them. Please explain to me how you judge a man's intent? Before you waste any time trying to conjure up anything the answer is 'you can't'. You can look for proxies but you can never tell what is in a man's mind. Mane has form for leaving a little in challenges. Think of how many times he did it to Danny last year at the lane. He probably should have been sent off twice that game. I am NOT saying he intended to foot him in the face. I AM saying that he was reckless and endangered another player so it was a red. All the other stuff you write is immaterial to the referees decision.

Answer a question for me: Why are children told to not run with scissors? Also the reason why you shouldn't raise your studs 6 feet high while approaching another player. You may laugh and think it's silly to bring in a child's lesson but the reasoning of the 'Not a red for me, jeff' gang is about at that level.

I'll watch it again, was pretty tanked last night.

Take your point on the intent issue.

I don't know, I just felt he had the right to go for it.

I accept it ended up being wreckless, so I'm wrong I guess.

Mr Pink · Sep 10, 2017

Yeah, that picture above looks bad.

Yep, I've had a mare here fellas.

fortworthspur · Sep 10, 2017

Phantom said:
Had that red been for a smaller team I doubt any of the pundits would have said a damn thing. Since its Liverpool it is some kind of travesty.

What part of kicking someone in the face (studs first) isn't a red card?

"He was looking at the ball" - well perhaps as a pro footballer who is supposed to be aware of what is going on around him he should work on that particular skill?

"There was no intent" - doesn't need to be intentional if it is dangerous.

"the ref ruined the game" - no he applied the rules, when a player has broken the rules and in such a dangerous way that there was serious concern for the health of the GK,then the ref has no choice!

"I would go for that ball every time" - And you would get sent off every time you made contact with the keeper. You were a dirty wanker as a player Alan we all know that, but you can't seriously be suggesting there was nothing wrong with that challenge. Even if he had won the ball the ref could have still blown for a high dangerous foot next the the keepers head.

As a rule I tend to avoid invoking media bias but I have to agree. That was as clear a red card as Ive seen. I remember Defoe getting sent off early for an accidental elbow while in the air and that was correct, too. This was worse by far. Nobody complained about Defoe's card.

rossdapep · Sep 10, 2017

HobbitSpur said:
If the tackle had been lower, and Ederson had run into Mane as he was trying to control the ball which is what happened it woukd not have been a red card either.

If mane had gone in aggressively, leading with his foot then yes that would be a red card. No matter where on the body it was.

Some things in football, is sport, in life generally are completely fair yet unfortunate. Thi

So running down the wing in acres of space not another player within 30 meters and you raise your foot to control the ball. Is that a foul/card? Obviously not.

So using that logic it just depends on how close the other player is to you before it becomes an offence.

2 meters maybe? 5 meters?

No one (no normal person) wants to see people get injured playing football. But accidents do happen.

I am all for protecting players, but we need to be careful not to over react.

Sorry but that's a little bit straw man don't you think? If a player is 2-3 metres away from you then that doesn't really constitute as a challenge does it?

fortworthspur · Sep 10, 2017

rossdapep said:
This. If we judged every challenge on intent then we'd get absolutely know where as it's impossible to know if there was intent. That's why we have these rules - to remove the element of a decision based on opinion.

It's alright the likes of Shearer sitting there saying "I'd have gone for it" but that was 20 years ago and the game has progressed in terms of safety and player protection.

as far as intent - he intended to leave the ground and extend his boot studs up more than 4 feet off the ground. there wasnt some other wordly force that compelled him to make that challenge.

heelspurs · Sep 10, 2017

Mr Pink said:
Yeah, that picture above looks bad.

Yep, I've had a mare here fellas.

Doesn't matter we love you anyway.

HobbitSpur · Sep 10, 2017

Mr Pink said:
Yeah, that picture above looks bad.

Yep, I've had a mare here fellas.

You can take a still photo of a completely fair challenge at can look life threatening. Does not prove anything.

He had every right to go for the ball. Was not acting aggressively, natural to try and bring ball down with foot in that scenario.

Yellow Card and free Kick to Liverpool

Edited: Free kick to Manchester City. Never meant to say free kick to Liverpool. Never thought it should be a free kick to Liverpool

Mr Pink · Sep 10, 2017

HobbitSpur said:
You can take a still photo of a completely fair challenge at can look life threatening. Does not prove anything.

He had every right to go for the ball. Was not acting aggressively, natural to try and bring ball down with foot in that scenario.

Yellow Card and free kick to Liverpool's

I'm of, was of, a similar opinion.

Don't think we can argue with the wreckless point though, and dangerous play developed as a result of his high studs no matter what way we analyse it.

heelspurs · Sep 10, 2017

HobbitSpur said:
You can take a still photo of a completely fair challenge at can look life threatening. Does not prove anything.

He had every right to go for the ball. Was not acting aggressively, natural to try and bring ball down with foot in that scenario.

Yellow Card and free kick to Liverpool's

I shall henceforth consider the words in your avatar ironic.

heelspurs · Sep 10, 2017

Mr Pink said:
I'm of, was of, a similar opinion.

Don't think we can argue with the wreckless point though, and dangerous play developed as a result of his high studs no matter what way we analyse it.

As an aside thank you for illustrating brilliantly a point I made in support of Serge Aurier, converts are often the best allies.

HobbitSpur · Sep 10, 2017

rossdapep said:
Sorry but that's a little bit straw man don't you think? If a player is 2-3 metres away from you then that doesn't really constitute as a challenge does it?

Not at all straw man. Was trying to make the argument that it was not using excessive force. Controlling a ball coming over your shoulder by raising you foot high is not using excessive force.

You quoted :-

Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned

Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off.
In response to that yes it was reckless and deserved of a yellow card which I have always agreed with. But was not exceeding the necessary use of force so not a red.

barry · Sep 10, 2017

Football is a competitive contact sport. Mane and ederson both knew that, which is why they both came charging out for a 50/50 ball knowing there's a distinct possibility they could get clattered. That's the game we love.
The way some of you go on it won't be long before touch football.
Disappoints me.

Mr Pink · Sep 10, 2017

Just happened in Swansea game, why not a red for that?

Phantom · Sep 10, 2017

Mr Pink said:
Just happened in Swansea game, why not a red for that?

Not seen it, but was he running at full pace and then jumping into a karate style kick? Is the ref thinking I saw the outcry yesterday I don't want to be the centre of that sort of media witch hunt?

Apparently there was no actual contact according to the BBC? He may have pulled out of it when he saw someone was coming? He still received a yellow card.

Not seen it have no idea.

heelspurs · Sep 10, 2017

Mr Pink said:
Just happened in Swansea game, why not a red for that?

Was going to try and preempt this question. No contact but it was a booking wasn't it? If he contacted him whatsoever it should have been red. I don't like that dirty fucker anyway. He knew what he was doing as well. And if I was Mawson I would make sure he missed the next game or two to teach him a lesson.

Mr Pink · Sep 10, 2017

heelspurs said:
Was going to try and preempt this question. No contact but it was a booking wasn't it? If he contacted him whatsoever it should have been red. I don't like that dirty fucker anyway. He knew what he was doing as well. And if I was Mawson I would make sure he missed the next game or two to teach him a lesson.

Had he made contact it would of been worse than yesterday's.

And if no contact I don't understand why he's booked then?

Phantom · Sep 10, 2017

Mr Pink said:
Had he made contact it would of been worse than yesterday's.

And if no contact I don't understand why he's booked then?

Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned

heelspurs · Sep 10, 2017

Mr Pink said:
Had he made contact it would of been worse than yesterday's.

And if no contact I don't understand why he's booked then?

That's the crux of the whole Mane agrument, waving your foot that high in the vicinity of another player is dangerous and may warrant a booking.

Spurger King · Sep 10, 2017

I think everyone is missing the point. It was a red card because fuck Liverpool.

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