New Stadium Details And Discussions

worcestersauce · Apr 2, 2013

All the talk of Nazi rallies misses the point that in Germany things like this are simply more regemented than in England. I noticed in the werder bremen away games that the crowd was pretty quiet then up comes something over the annoy and the whole crowd roars back, repeat repeat repeat etc, over here we'd splinter off into different songs after a couple of shouts.
Good noise though.
Am I mistaken to think the stadium ground work can be under way whilst they are still fitting out phase 1.

davidmatzdorf · Apr 2, 2013

worcestersauce said:
Am I mistaken to think the stadium ground work can be under way whilst they are still fitting out phase 1.

That would be a normal and sensible way to programme the works, but there are a lot of considerations, such as where services run and how the construction vehicles access the site, that would need planning out. It's the sort of thing that contractors and project managers work out on a site by site basis. The more they can overlap the phases and shorten the build period, the more profitable the jobs gets for the contractor - and probably for the developer, too.

L.A. Yiddo · Apr 3, 2013

Taken from Skyscrapercity:-

http://www.londonreconnections.com/...ittee-crossrail-and-the-overground-talk-shop/

TfL also said they were very confident of securing agreement and filling a funding gap to add tracks from Walthamstow Marshes to Tottenham Hale and then, in a second phase, up to Northumberland Park to support substantial housing development in this area. Network Rail said they were planning on an early Control Period 5 start for this work. This extra track capacity would allow a 15 minute service from Stratford as far as Northumberland Park. Although not stated, it seems likely that the funding for this has been found from the housing developer, plus recently announced regeneration funding for Tottenham & Tottenham Hale station. Completion would be in 2017 assuming agreements are finalized soon and the Network Rail business plan is approved and funded.

Interesting.

punky · Apr 3, 2013

I didn't know Walthamstow had any marshes. Where are they?

spursontheloose · Apr 3, 2013

punky said:
I didn't know Walthamstow had any marshes. Where are they?

As a reference point, behind the ice rink on lea bridge road. The overground from chingford to liverpool street runs through them after St James street station (y)

L.A. Yiddo · Apr 3, 2013

punky said:
I didn't know Walthamstow had any marshes. Where are they?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walthamstow_Marshes

worcestersauce · Apr 3, 2013

X marks the spot ( the rail lines draw a big X)

sherbornespurs · Apr 3, 2013

I'm assuming that as this is a proposed extension of Cross Rail rather than the Victoria line, it'll be handy for getting to Stratford a bit sharpish, but perhaps no quicker than exists now for the early train back from Waterloo to sunny Dorset.

RichieS · Apr 3, 2013

L.A. Yiddo said:
Taken from Skyscrapercity:-

http://www.londonreconnections.com/...ittee-crossrail-and-the-overground-talk-shop/

Interesting.

Is this not the expansion that SS57's been talking about for ages?

shelfmonkey · Apr 5, 2013

slartibartfast said:
Anyone out there got any news on when they plan to start work on the actual stadium? Have the finances to pay for it been sorted or is that what we'rewaiting for? Bloody hope not or this could all be a pipe dream.

You better start dreaming of pipes

Spursidol · Apr 6, 2013

L.A. Yiddo said:
Taken from Skyscrapercity:-

http://www.londonreconnections.com/...ittee-crossrail-and-the-overground-talk-shop/

Interesting.

Interesting post on SO :

'I think this is a huge development. Last summer I used the Stratford - Tottenham Hale link during peak Olympic times and the non stop service ( its only stop is Stratford Westfield ) was being heavily used by the new development at hale, already a fairly large bus/train/tube hub because of the retail park. If they extend one stop to Northumberland Park it would no doubt be very heavily used'.

Agreed that this development is far short of a tube stop at Northumberland Park, but if the enlarged capacity from Stratford to Northumberland Park becomes a reality with frequent trains on match days, it does allow many more people to easily use rail and does potentially make it much more accessible to city/canary wharf types who might well be bringing in lots of money from hiring boxes plus sponsorship etc.

Even the optimists are talking about a near 10 year time frame, if it ever happens, for a tube stop (something rejected years ago), so a near term improvement in rail links would be very good news

Spursidol · Apr 6, 2013

sherbornespurs said:
I'm assuming that as this is a proposed extension of Cross Rail rather than the Victoria line, it'll be handy for getting to Stratford a bit sharpish, but perhaps no quicker than exists now for the early train back from Waterloo to sunny Dorset.

IMO its independent of crossrail but it is part of the overground rather than the Victoria line tube

Jimmypearce7 · Apr 8, 2013

Without trawling back through every post, is it the current position that we haven't committed to building the new ground yet?
Is getting a ground sponsor the key thing we are waiting for? Have we determined that we must proceed by a certain date or could we just leave the land there empty for years until/if we can afford to build?

Spursidol · Apr 8, 2013

Jimmypearce7 said:
Without trawling back through every post, is it the current position that we haven't committed to building the new ground yet?
Is getting a ground sponsor the key thing we are waiting for? Have we determined that we must proceed by a certain date or could we just leave the land there empty for years until/if we can afford to build?

No, that is not an affordable or politically able option.

You would have heard if Spurs had made a precise public announcement to build with a firm start date and contractors being named.

It is conjecture that the financing has not been completed - nobody knows for sure how complete or otherwise this is. It is perfectly possible that the last major piece of the jigsaw is the planning permission for the 'Wembley Way' approach and/or agreement on the transport links (details o all these are on previous pages on the thread) or indeed other dependencies.

davidmatzdorf · Apr 8, 2013

Jimmypearce7 said:
Without trawling back through every post, is it the current position that we haven't committed to building the new ground yet?
Is getting a ground sponsor the key thing we are waiting for? Have we determined that we must proceed by a certain date or could we just leave the land there empty for years until/if we can afford to build?

The planning consent expires 3 years from the signing of the S.106 Agreement, but provided it is "implemented", i.e., proper work of construction has started on site, it becomes permanent. Arguably, the commencement of work on the North Development (Sainsbury's, etc.) constituted "implementation", which would take the pressure off the planning consent.

I think it's plain enough from the murmurs and rumbles that the club is working on arranging the necessary finance, which will probably include a mixture of borrowed money, proceeds from a naming-rights deal and perhaps an equity investor (which might be the same as the naming-rights sponsor). They aren't going to commit to the construction contract until they have the finance in place and that's taking awhile - arranging finance for development continues to be extremely difficult, as it has been since 2008.

At the same time, there is a hell of a lot of work associated with developing the detailed design, compliance with the scores of planning conditions and other statutory requirements, and getting the building contractor on board. As far as I can tell, they're getting on with all that (which, of itself, involves spending a meaningful amount of money). Whether they will get the building contract ready to sign before they get the finance arranged, or vice versa, I have no idea.

Spursidol · Apr 8, 2013

davidmatzdorf said:
The planning consent expires 3 years from the signing of the S.106 Agreement, but provided it is "implemented", i.e., proper work of construction has started on site, it becomes permanent. Arguably, the commencement of work on the North Development (Sainsbury's, etc.) constituted "implementation", which would take the pressure off the planning consent.

I think it's plain enough from the murmurs and rumbles that the club is working on arranging the necessary finance, which will probably include a mixture of borrowed money, proceeds from a naming-rights deal and perhaps an equity investor (which might be the same as the naming-rights sponsor). They aren't going to commit to the construction contract until they have the finance in place and that's taking awhile - arranging finance for development continues to be extremely difficult, as it has been since 2008.

At the same time, there is a hell of a lot of work associated with developing the detailed design, compliance with the scores of planning conditions and other statutory requirements, and getting the building contractor on board. As far as I can tell, they're getting on with all that (which, of itself, involves spending a meaningful amount of money). Whether they will get the building contract ready to sign before they get the finance arranged, or vice versa, I have no idea.

Agree with all that. Fact that Spurs are committing so much money to getting a complete plan together, getting political backing (Harringay council, Boris etc) all suggests that Spurs expect the project to roll in due course.

Its just there has been no explicit announcement as yet. My take on it is that summer/autumn is the next most likely time to get an announcement that they will start building towars the end of this year. But I could be wrong and/or timing might slip as timing on large complex projects sometimes does.

Spursidol · Apr 8, 2013

A poster on SO has posted the following suggestions, which are worthwhile a read :

David Lammy indicated (via a tweet) the stadium build would start in December 2013 at the earliest, so allowing for inevitable slippage and assuming all that needs to be done is done (especially financing), the timetable should work as follows :

Early 2014 Stadium stage A build begins (16 -18 months)
Summer 2015 Demolition of Paxton Road stand; pitch laid in new stadium. Stadium stage B build begins (12 months)
Season 2015-16 Played in the two-thirds finished new stadium (capacity about 38k)
Summer 2016 New stadium complete Season 2016-17.First season in the complete stadium Old stadium demolition completed Southern Development begins. So... the team will run out at the two-thirds completed
stadium in time for the beginning of the 2015-16 season. They will run out at the finally completed
stadium in time for the beginning of the 2016-17 season

That timetable assumes all can be sorted out in time. From what we know, there could be three main interacting issues to resolve.

(1) The Stadium Approach. Perhaps slower progress with this would not affect the start of the stadium construction but if there are financial implications for THFC, then it could.

(2) Getting the finances in place, which we've known all along. Maybe a framework has already been agreed, maybe not. Presumably the naming rights contract is the major variable here.

(3) It's possible that getting a final decision on the Northumberland Park to Stratford line is important. It could affect the number of corporates able to travel from the City and Canary Wharf and thus the demand for premium seats. It would also affect the approach to the Southern Development, though maybe decisions about that do not delay the start of stadium construction.

talkshowhost86 · Apr 8, 2013

Spursidol said:
A poster on SO has posted the following suggestions, which are worthwhile a read :

David Lammy indicated (via a tweet) the stadium build would start in December 2013 at the earliest, so allowing for inevitable slippage and assuming all that needs to be done is done (especially financing), the timetable should work as follows :

Early 2014 Stadium stage A build begins (16 -18 months)
Summer 2015 Demolition of Paxton Road stand; pitch laid in new stadium. Stadium stage B build begins (12 months)
Season 2015-16 Played in the two-thirds finished new stadium (capacity about 38k)
Summer 2016 New stadium complete Season 2016-17.First season in the complete stadium Old stadium demolition completed Southern Development begins. So... the team will run out at the two-thirds completed
stadium in time for the beginning of the 2015-16 season. They will run out at the finally completed
stadium in time for the beginning of the 2016-17 season

That timetable assumes all can be sorted out in time. From what we know, there could be three main interacting issues to resolve.

(1) The Stadium Approach. Perhaps slower progress with this would not affect the start of the stadium construction but if there are financial implications for THFC, then it could.

(2) Getting the finances in place, which we've known all along. Maybe a framework has already been agreed, maybe not. Presumably the naming rights contract is the major variable here.

(3) It's possible that getting a final decision on the Northumberland Park to Stratford line is important. It could affect the number of corporates able to travel from the City and Canary Wharf and thus the demand for premium seats. It would also affect the approach to the Southern Development, though maybe decisions about that do not delay the start of stadium construction.

Sounds very optimistic to me!

Spursidol · Apr 8, 2013

talkshowhost86 said:
Sounds very optimistic to me!

Tried to make it clear that any slippages would affect this timetable, but obviously not clear enough

Perhaps I shoulkd simply say 'This is probably the best Spurs fans could hope for, however as with any major project there may be things which have the effect of causing slippage to this timetable'

talkshowhost86 · Apr 8, 2013

Spursidol said:
Tried to make it clear that any slippages would affect this timetable, but obviously not clear enough

Perhaps I shoulkd simply say 'This is probably the best Spurs fans could hope for, however as with any major project there may be things which have the effect of causing slippage to this timetable'

Wasn't having a pop at you (or the person who initially posted it) but as a starting point I'd be very surprised if work begins before the end of next season. I think if we were further forward than that then there'd have been more of a grand announcement by now.

I think somewhere in this thread I jokingly said it wouldn't be done until 2020. I'm actually now not so sure that'll be so far off the actual completion date.

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