Winning the league?

[AngerManagement]

If we aim for title then it would only increase our chances for top 4

How would it?

We aim to go out and win every game regardless, we aim to finish as high as we possibly can.

Our targets and expectations won't change this, saying we aim to win the triple won't some how magically make it easier for us to come in the top four.

I am talking about our expectations as fans, obviously the team should and will be trying to win every game they play nothing more nothing less. We as fans though can afford to to look at the situation realistically and accessing our prospects and targets for the season.

We have a great squad but we're in a tough tough league. I think we are a shoe in for the top six and favourites for the top four. First won't happen and second is probably slightly out of range, but third and fourth are realistic achievable goals for us this season (although it will take an almighty effort for us to reach either)

Any cup success in the FA or Europe will be a bonus and are secondary to our "real" agenda this season I think. (they're biggest purpose could be to aid the development of our brightest prospects, maybe that in itself is a sign of how far we have come already and how far we are looking to go.)

 

[StartingPrice]

Like I said before, its just like the lotto..... you know your pretty much just pissing money away putting on but you'd be gutted if your numbers came up and you hadn't played that week :grin:

Exactly.
Why's everyone getting so stressed :shrug:

 

[Gilzeanking]

I didn't care who got the ball against Wigan, they are all top players. There is no weak link in the front 6.

Yes , I know this feeling . For years I've been peering through the dodgy stream gloom to see who in our team received a pass , knowing that there are several players who have no chance of doing anything and praying good players get the ball in the critical places.

As you say , for the first time , it doesn't matter so much , they're all good at the front/mid ...its a great feeling .

 

[NEVILLEB]

Yes , I know this feeling . For years I've been peering through the dodgy stream gloom to see who in our team received a pass , knowing that there are several players who have no chance of doing anything and praying good players get the ball in the critical places.

As you say , for the first time , it doesn't matter so much , they're all good at the front/mid ...its a great feeling .

Agreed.

At the start I was muttering "get the ball to Bale, get the ball to Bale"...then I realised I didn't care who had it. Every player was dangerous and could retain possession.

You are only as strong as your weakest link (Yes, you Pip Neville). We're looking good! :beer:


Just read that Wilshere is out for 5 months. Massive blow to Arsenal and more importantly England but good for us. With Van Persie stalling on a new contract I think we can thank our stars we kept hold of Modric. There is a domino effect to your best players leaving.

 

[SpurSince57]

It's not whether we will win the league

It's whether our 1st team is capable of winning the league.

Without injuries I'd say they are. But obviously the chances are very, very remote.

The main point of this thread is to recognise that Adebayor and Parker have fixed long standing problems and finally we look a team and not a collection of talented individuals.

Watching Parker and Sandro in tandem hoovering up possession and then feeding VDV, Modric, Bale and Adebayor was very exciting. I didn't care who got the ball against Wigan, they are all top players. There is no weak link in the front 6.

Keep King/Gallas and Adebayor fit and we are a very serious proposition.

Let's just try not to lose to Arsenal!

I'm all for positivity, and I know you're not one of the doom merchants, but let's not get carried away. I don't think there's any doubt that this side is the best since '87, which arguably means the best since the early 60s, but the league is much tougher now. Then, only Everton were stronger than us (if we're honest), but we should have got closer to them than we did, and we should certainly have been runners-up. Now at full strength we're better than Liverpool and probably Arsenal and can give United, City and Chelsea a game, but realistically we're fourth best rather than second.

Still, you've got to be about 40 to remember when it was as good to be a Spurs fan as it is now; Harry has the best PPG of any Spurs manager, the highest win percentage and lowest percentage of defeats, and possibly the best defensive record too. Considering which, it's pretty amazing that one defeat will have dickwits calling for his head.

 

[NEVILLEB]

I'm all for positivity, and I know you're not one of the doom merchants, but let's not get carried away. I don't think there's any doubt that this side is the best since '87, which arguably means the best since the early 60s, but the league is much tougher now. Then, only Everton were stronger than us (if we're honest), but we should have got closer to them than we did, and we should certainly have been runners-up. Now at full strength we're better than Liverpool and probably Arsenal and can give United, City and Chelsea a game, but realistically we're fourth best rather than second.

Still, you've got to be about 40 to remember when it was as good to be a Spurs fan as it is now; Harry has the best PPG of any Spurs manager, the highest win percentage and lowest percentage of defeats, and possibly the best defensive record too. Considering which, it's pretty amazing that one defeat will have dickwits calling for his head.

:hump::hump::hump:

It's frightening isn't it. Especially after the first two games when Levy was still dicking around in the transfer window. Harry suddenly became a terrible manager. Parker and Adebayor sign and he's great again.

I played football to a reasonable level and yes, the manager can make a difference, but ultimately it's the players on the pitch that win games. You would know if you'd win by matching up the players from both sides.

I'm 33 and this is the best group of individuals I've ever seen at WHL.

Where ever we come, I'm going to enjoy the football this season.

 

[Rackybear]

How would it?

We aim to go out and win every game regardless, we aim to finish as high as we possibly can.

Our targets and expectations won't change this, saying we aim to win the triple won't some how magically make it easier for us to come in the top four.

I am talking about our expectations as fans, obviously the team should and will be trying to win every game they play nothing more nothing less. We as fans though can afford to to look at the situation realistically and accessing our prospects and targets for the season.

We have a great squad but we're in a tough tough league. I think we are a shoe in for the top six and favourites for the top four. First won't happen and second is probably slightly out of range, but third and fourth are realistic achievable goals for us this season (although it will take an almighty effort for us to reach either)

Any cup success in the FA or Europe will be a bonus and are secondary to our "real" agenda this season I think. (they're biggest purpose could be to aid the development of our brightest prospects, maybe that in itself is a sign of how far we have come already and how far we are looking to go.)

It would. Its a mentality thing. If you have the mentality of potential champions and narrowly miss out, you will finish in the top 4. If you have the mentality of top 4 contenders, and you miss out - you will fall outside of the top 4.

Ofcourse you go out to win every game, but so do teams like norwhich and sunderland!

 

[mano-obe]

Quote right . Lets stick to whinning threads about sacking the manager,and we are going down,cos they will come if we were to lose three on the trot.

Whine threads are frustration of how things go. That happens because sometimes we aren't good enough as we think we are.

This thread is delusional. According to some of our fans for the past 6-7 years we are better than Arsenal, now there is a thread that we are better than Chelsea. Let's finish above Arsenal before we make anymore daft predictions.

The fact that we shipped 8 goals in two games against the contenders for the title shows we are a little off the pace. Infact I think we'll probably finish 25-30 points off both come the end of the season.

Before people call me names or a pessimist, I'm just a realist.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

I don't really care how we match up compared to other squads. Squads over achieve and under achieve all the time. What is important is getting a result in the next match, prepare properly for the next match and keep playing football.

Football is still won on the football pitch, 11 men against 11 (or 10 if they keep kicking the crap out of Bale) and not in the transfer market. I'm happy with the XI we're going to put out against Arsenal and we can win the match. I'm pretty sure I'll feel that way about every match we have this season.

 

[StartingPrice]

Whine threads are frustration of how things go. That happens because sometimes we aren't good enough as we think we are.

This thread is delusional. According to some of our fans for the past 6-7 years we are better than Arsenal, now there is a thread that we are better than Chelsea. Let's finish above Arsenal before we make anymore daft predictions.

The fact that we shipped 8 goals in two games against the contenders for the title shows we are a little off the pace. Infact I think we'll probably finish 25-30 points off both come the end of the season.

Before people call me names or a pessimist, I'm just a realist.

We lost those two games with our best player knobbled by the Chavs evil, no central midfield, some unhelpful injuries and no Parker/Adebayor. We are a very, very different team now. Did you miss that?

No, you are not a realist, you are a pessimist. You offer a massively pessimistic slant on things, as in where you treat the team that played in those first two games as though that was our 1st choice starting 11, not playing with massive handicaps, to go through the rest of the season with.

We may be a little off the pace, though it remains to be seen how Citeh are going to cope with CL/EPL (we know, for instance, it affected us, why in hell should we not consider that it might just affect them? = pessimism), but no where near to the degree you suggest. Obviously, if we beat United and Citeh in the corresponding fixtures (let's pretend for the sake of argument, eh), it would be points equal from the encounters, so we need to start thinking morre in terms of consistency against the other clubs.

And this is what I see, Chelsea are a team we have beaten, or cempeted with in the last few seasons. They have a new manager who has shown signs of failing to adapt to the EPL immediately. They have an ageing squad. They no longer have the mythos of being the riches t club - and they know it (at least a part of the Modric saga was about showing to Citeh that they are still big boys with a big stick - and they failed! Some shock defeats and he/they could be in trouble. They are above us in the pecking order, but a couple of great performances against them, or a few dodgy results could see them vulnerable. We are better than Liverpool now, as proven in head-to-heads over the last few seasons, as proven by finishing above them in the league two seasons running, as proven by having biatch slapped them jsut the other week. We are probably better than the Goons head-to-head, and they look vulnerable. But what this is really going to come down to is how we perform against the final third teams. That was what did for us last year, and the only reason we are not being talked of as a shoe-in for the CL spots and outside bets for the EPL title. And what I see is that against those sides we sometimes seemed to lack drive - Scotty Parker will give that, job done, sorted. And we just couldn't bluddy score against them bang because they set up defensively. Now, in Adebayor, I believe we have a striker who can play with VDV and force goals in those games.

This gives me every reason to believe, rationally, as a realist, that we have all of the playing staff and mentality to beat almost every team we will face this season (with the possible exception of the two games remaining against the Manchester clubs, where we will be slight outsiders, but nowhere near as much as the first two games of the seasons would suggest). It also givees me every reason to believe that we have playing staff and mentality to believe we can play consistently against all the teams who finished below 6th last season and should not be our direct competitors - and that is where 1st to 4th in the EPL is really going to be decided.

Yes, we got off to a dreadful, dispiriting start, but we have recovered from that set-back superbly, and how you recover from set-backs is what makes you a good team or not, not the having set-backs in the first place. Yes, we had a dreadful start, but even so we are poised just outside the CL spots with a game in hand - that should give you some indication of how far we can go.

IMHO, probably favourites for 4th.
IMHO, should be looking to push Chelsea for 3rd, even if they are favourites - by no means wild outsiders.
IMHO, yes, massively outsiders for the title, but we should just look to keep on winning our games and take advantage of any slip-ups from United/Citeh. What, you honestly don't think there will be any? Eek

On that reasoned basis, I think you are pessimistic, and not a realist at all, jsut trying to camouflage your pessimism with a totally illusory claim to reasoned analysis where there is none.

 

[AngerManagement]

It would. Its a mentality thing. If you have the mentality of potential champions and narrowly miss out, you will finish in the top 4. If you have the mentality of top 4 contenders, and you miss out - you will fall outside of the top 4.

Ofcourse you go out to win every game, but so do teams like norwhich and sunderland!

So should Norwich target winning the league too as it will make them more likely to stay up?

I think there is equal potential for over setting your targets which can be dangerous if you fall beneath these expectations which can then actually have a negative mental effect and damage moral and spirit.

Its not as simple as aiming to surpass your targets and if you fail to reach them you will sill be higher than your initial targets.

Case in point, last season at one point we were flying and confidence was high we looked great and were turning over big teams (not least coming back from 2 down at Arsenal to win and beat the Champions of Europe no less)

Harry started talking about how we could win the league, the press started talking up our chances. Players were saying we can do it in interviews, the belief that we could win the league was in place.

Did this raised expectation/target help us to reach our initial target? did we fail aiming high but end up making our challenge for fourth easier because of this mental edge?

Obviously we know the answer is no, in fact we suffered quite a bad slump in form very soon after these comments were being frequently made to the press and ultimately we missed out on our original target of fourth even though we had succeeded the previous year without any talk or expectations of winning the league.

I am all for sports pschycology and having the players believe they can win every game, beat any team and I certainly wouldn't want them to enter a game thinking "its ok to drop points here because we only want to come fourth" or something like that.

I do however think your goals should be realistic or they can risk a negative effects as and when you start to fall behind with these goals. Right now winning the league this season is not realistic for us and we will not maintain Championship pace (we're already some way off it to be fair) we can however aim and succeed in coming 4th or even third and these are the targets we should have in terms of measuring our success for the season.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't try to win the league, of course we should try to win every game and see how things go, but oh season targets are set as CL qualification and this is frankly where they should be set right now.

I don't think its anywhere like as simple as aiming high helps you achieve smaller goals, aiming high also brings added pressure and gives more potential for failure against your goals which in turn can actually lower belief and moral. I Think its a matter of finding the right balance and currently 4th-3rd place as a target gives us that..

Game by game of course the manager and his staff should be firing the team up to believe in themselves and win every game. We will see where that takes us, but personally saying we should be aiming to win the league i.e. setting that as our target this season is wrong in my opinion.

From a fans point of view it is even more wrong because we as fans have even less reason to set unrealistic goals as we our belief will have no influence on player performance and we have all seen first hand how quite excess positivity turns to negativity amoungst Spurs fans when they start getting carried away and knee jerking "we're gonna win the league" turns to "Harry out" in the blink of an eye round here and in the stadium (I remember the boos after home draws and losses against the likes of Wolves and Stoke etc)

Finally, my point regarding the question is it worth us putting a bet on Spurs to win the league....the answer is clearly no it is not WORTH doing so as you will simply be throwing your money away. Its not a sensible bet and its a waste of money, just like playing the lotto is a waste of money.

That doesn't mean I am saying not to do it, just like I play the lotto mostly every week because "you have to be in it to win it" or "you never know" and like I said before you'd be gutted if you never played the week your numbers came up.

So if you want to put such a bet on for fun with an amount of money you are prepared to throw away on a bet that won't win just for a "just in case bet" then by all means go for it. None the less it is not WORTH doing as it is a bet you will lose, but for fun sake and for blind hope like buying a lotto ticket there is no harm in betting a small amount.

For the record I don't think 66-1 are particularly good odds, nor do they reflect the probability of a team who has not won the league in my life time or even came close since I have been old enough to watch football. The likelyhood of us winning the league this season is far less probable than 66-1 and if you ask me the bookies are being stingy with them odds.

 

[StartingPrice]

So should Norwich target winning the league too as it will make them more likely to stay up?

I think there is equal potential for over setting your targets which can be dangerous if you fall beneath these expectations which can then actually have a negative mental effect and damage moral and spirit.

Its not as simple as aiming to surpass your targets and if you fail to reach them you will sill be higher than your initial targets.

Case in point, last season at one point we were flying and confidence was high we looked great and were turning over big teams (not least coming back from 2 down at Arsenal to win and beat the Champions of Europe no less)

Harry started talking about how we could win the league, the press started talking up our chances. Players were saying we can do it in interviews, the belief that we could win the league was in place.

Did this raised expectation/target help us to reach our initial target? did we fail aiming high but end up making our challenge for fourth easier because of this mental edge?

Obviously we know the answer is no, in fact we suffered quite a bad slump in form very soon after these comments were being frequently made to the press and ultimately we missed out on our original target of fourth even though we had succeeded the previous year without any talk or expectations of winning the league.

I am all for sports pschycology and having the players believe they can win every game, beat any team and I certainly wouldn't want them to enter a game thinking "its ok to drop points here because we only want to come fourth" or something like that.

I do however think your goals should be realistic or they can risk a negative effects as and when you start to fall behind with these goals. Right now winning the league this season is not realistic for us and we will not maintain Championship pace (we're already some way off it to be fair) we can however aim and succeed in coming 4th or even third and these are the targets we should have in terms of measuring our success for the season.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't try to win the league, of course we should try to win every game and see how things go, but oh season targets are set as CL qualification and this is frankly where they should be set right now.

I don't think its anywhere like as simple as aiming high helps you achieve smaller goals, aiming high also brings added pressure and gives more potential for failure against your goals which in turn can actually lower belief and moral. I Think its a matter of finding the right balance and currently 4th-3rd place as a target gives us that..

Game by game of course the manager and his staff should be firing the team up to believe in themselves and win every game. We will see where that takes us, but personally saying we should be aiming to win the league i.e. setting that as our target this season is wrong in my opinion.

From a fans point of view it is even more wrong because we as fans have even less reason to set unrealistic goals as we our belief will have no influence on player performance and we have all seen first hand how quite excess positivity turns to negativity amoungst Spurs fans when they start getting carried away and knee jerking "we're gonna win the league" turns to "Harry out" in the blink of an eye round here and in the stadium (I remember the boos after home draws and losses against the likes of Wolves and Stoke etc)

Finally, my point regarding the question is it worth us putting a bet on Spurs to win the league....the answer is clearly no it is not WORTH doing so as you will simply be throwing your money away. Its not a sensible bet and its a waste of money, just like playing the lotto is a waste of money.

That doesn't mean I am saying not to do it, just like I play the lotto mostly every week because "you have to be in it to win it" or "you never know" and like I said before you'd be gutted if you never played the week your numbers came up.

So if you want to put such a bet on for fun with an amount of money you are prepared to throw away on a bet that won't win just for a "just in case bet" then by all means go for it. None the less it is not WORTH doing as it is a bet you will lose, but for fun sake and for blind hope like buying a lotto ticket there is no harm in betting a small amount.

For the record I don't think 66-1 are particularly good odds, nor do they reflect the probability of a team who has not won the league in my life time or even came close since I have been old enough to watch football. The likelyhood of us winning the league this season is far less probable than 66-1 and if you ask me the bookies are being stingy with them odds.

I'm going to use this post as a sig to embarrass you with every time I post, WHEN we win the league :dance:

Disclaimer: SP would like to point out that the above post is null-and-void if an when it is proven that he is clinically insane.

 

[$hoguN]

Good post AM, saved me a long time writing something similar :up:

 

[AngerManagement]

I'm going to use this post as a sig to embarrass you with every time I post, WHEN we win the league :dance:

Disclaimer: SP would like to point out that the above post is null-and-void if an when it is proven that he is clinically insane.

That will be a pretty long sig, you might want to edit it down to the key points

 

[$hoguN]

That will be a pretty long sig, you might want to edit it down to the key points

Or put in spoilers.......


:wink:

 

[StartingPrice]

That will be a pretty long sig, you might want to edit it down to the key points

Nah...needs to be in full for effect :wink:

Or put in spoilers.......


:wink:

The only spoiler would be the highly unlikely event of us not winning the EPL shifty.

 

[AngerManagement]

Just to add to the "aiming to win the league makes it easier to come top four" debate

If it were as simple as setting your goals and mentality to that of goals higher than your realistic objective in order to make attaining your actual goals easier, why does every manager of every club ever in a relegation battle always continuously mention that 40 points and safety is still their goal first and foremost no matter how well they are performing and pundits are trying to commit them to looking past that goal on on to higher ones?

If it were the case that a change of mindset would aid their ability to avoid relegation why are they not all adopting this tactic? why aren't we hearing them all saying they expect mid table security or even a push for the Europa places? why do they all always say PL survival is their goal and they are not looking past that?? are they all missing this simple and magic ploy of your mind set being set higher helps you to achieve your goals??

Why do the managers and players in teams challenging for the title always use the old "we just take one game at a time" mantle? Why aren't they all saying "we are gonna walk this league" so that their players have the mind set that they are gonna win every game and win the league by 20 clear points? surely by the logic Racky Bizzle suggests if they did that it would make it easier for them to win the league by just a few points because their mental settings are to do so by twenty clear points?

How do we explain the fact failed to come fourth last year having succeeded the year before when last year we were talking about winning the league all over the place? surely this mindset should have made coming fourth easier, its a mental thing right?

Why did NEwcastle blow a 15 point lead to Man Utd when they were walking the league as soon as it came to the business end of things and the reality of actually winning the title set in? was it really just because signing Asprilla unbalanced them? is that why we lost fourth place too because VDV unbalanced us?

Or did NEwcastle lack the mental strength and experience to actually win a title race, with a manager who didn't know how to win and players who had not done so before. Keegan and NEwcastle lost the mental battle to the more experience Sir ALex and Man U and NEwcastle fell apart under the pressure.

I also suggest the pressure of raised expectation and media attention got to us last year and we suffered a bad dip in form after we had been free scoring and in Europe and talked regularly about winning the title last year. Maybe not the only reason, but it played a roll in my opinion just like experience of being able to handle a CL campaign and PL at the same time set us back and lost us vital points at key times.

I don't think for one second that raising our expectations to winning the league this year would make it any easier for us to win the race for fourth or even third. I'd like us to maintain the tried and tested age old "we take one game at a time" mentality and set out to perform to our best each and every game and see where it takes us.

Goal is to get back in CL, if we exceed this great but that is rightfully our goal and I don't see how or why changing this goal would improve our potential to succeed if anything the added pressure and attention could have an adverse impact.

 

[dontcallme]

Just to add to the "aiming to win the league makes it easier to come top four" debate

If it were as simple as setting your goals and mentality to that of goals higher than your realistic objective in order to make attaining your actual goals easier, why does every manager of every club ever in a relegation battle always continuously mention that 40 points and safety is still their goal first and foremost no matter how well they are performing and pundits are trying to commit them to looking past that goal on on to higher ones?

If it were the case that a change of mindset would aid their ability to avoid relegation why are they not all adopting this tactic? why aren't we hearing them all saying they expect mid table security or even a push for the Europa places? why do they all always say PL survival is their goal and they are not looking past that?? are they all missing this simple and magic ploy of your mind set being set higher helps you to achieve your goals??

Why do the managers and players in teams challenging for the title always use the old "we just take one game at a time" mantle? Why aren't they all saying "we are gonna walk this league" so that their players have the mind set that they are gonna win every game and win the league by 20 clear points? surely by the logic Racky Bizzle suggests if they did that it would make it easier for them to win the league by just a few points because their mental settings are to do so by twenty clear points?

How do we explain the fact failed to come fourth last year having succeeded the year before when last year we were talking about winning the league all over the place? surely this mindset should have made coming fourth easier, its a mental thing right?

Why did NEwcastle blow a 15 point lead to Man Utd when they were walking the league as soon as it came to the business end of things and the reality of actually winning the title set in? was it really just because signing Asprilla unbalanced them? is that why we lost fourth place too because VDV unbalanced us?

Or did NEwcastle lack the mental strength and experience to actually win a title race, with a manager who didn't know how to win and players who had not done so before. Keegan and NEwcastle lost the mental battle to the more experience Sir ALex and Man U and NEwcastle fell apart under the pressure.

I also suggest the pressure of raised expectation and media attention got to us last year and we suffered a bad dip in form after we had been free scoring and in Europe and talked regularly about winning the title last year. Maybe not the only reason, but it played a roll in my opinion just like experience of being able to handle a CL campaign and PL at the same time set us back and lost us vital points at key times.

I don't think for one second that raising our expectations to winning the league this year would make it any easier for us to win the race for fourth or even third. I'd like us to maintain the tried and tested age old "we take one game at a time" mentality and set out to perform to our best each and every game and see where it takes us.

Goal is to get back in CL, if we exceed this great but that is rightfully our goal and I don't see how or why changing this goal would improve our potential to succeed if anything the added pressure and attention could have an adverse impact.

Exactly. This bizarre idea that aiming to finish top means you have a better chance of finishing in the top four is well, err bizarre.

People have targets and fail miserably at them all the time. If our team believes they can win the league then get hammered by their closest rivals then a negative mindset can set in.

 

[mano-obe]

We lost those two games with our best player knobbled by the Chavs evil, no central midfield, some unhelpful injuries and no Parker/Adebayor. We are a very, very different team now. Did you miss that?

No, you are not a realist, you are a pessimist. You offer a massively pessimistic slant on things, as in where you treat the team that played in those first two games as though that was our 1st choice starting 11, not playing with massive handicaps, to go through the rest of the season with.

We may be a little off the pace, though it remains to be seen how Citeh are going to cope with CL/EPL (we know, for instance, it affected us, why in hell should we not consider that it might just affect them? = pessimism), but no where near to the degree you suggest. Obviously, if we beat United and Citeh in the corresponding fixtures (let's pretend for the sake of argument, eh), it would be points equal from the encounters, so we need to start thinking morre in terms of consistency against the other clubs.

And this is what I see, Chelsea are a team we have beaten, or cempeted with in the last few seasons. They have a new manager who has shown signs of failing to adapt to the EPL immediately. They have an ageing squad. They no longer have the mythos of being the riches t club - and they know it (at least a part of the Modric saga was about showing to Citeh that they are still big boys with a big stick - and they failed! Some shock defeats and he/they could be in trouble. They are above us in the pecking order, but a couple of great performances against them, or a few dodgy results could see them vulnerable. We are better than Liverpool now, as proven in head-to-heads over the last few seasons, as proven by finishing above them in the league two seasons running, as proven by having biatch slapped them jsut the other week. We are probably better than the Goons head-to-head, and they look vulnerable. But what this is really going to come down to is how we perform against the final third teams. That was what did for us last year, and the only reason we are not being talked of as a shoe-in for the CL spots and outside bets for the EPL title. And what I see is that against those sides we sometimes seemed to lack drive - Scotty Parker will give that, job done, sorted. And we just couldn't bluddy score against them bang because they set up defensively. Now, in Adebayor, I believe we have a striker who can play with VDV and force goals in those games.

This gives me every reason to believe, rationally, as a realist, that we have all of the playing staff and mentality to beat almost every team we will face this season (with the possible exception of the two games remaining against the Manchester clubs, where we will be slight outsiders, but nowhere near as much as the first two games of the seasons would suggest). It also givees me every reason to believe that we have playing staff and mentality to believe we can play consistently against all the teams who finished below 6th last season and should not be our direct competitors - and that is where 1st to 4th in the EPL is really going to be decided.

Yes, we got off to a dreadful, dispiriting start, but we have recovered from that set-back superbly, and how you recover from set-backs is what makes you a good team or not, not the having set-backs in the first place. Yes, we had a dreadful start, but even so we are poised just outside the CL spots with a game in hand - that should give you some indication of how far we can go.

IMHO, probably favourites for 4th.
IMHO, should be looking to push Chelsea for 3rd, even if they are favourites - by no means wild outsiders.
IMHO, yes, massively outsiders for the title, but we should just look to keep on winning our games and take advantage of any slip-ups from United/Citeh. What, you honestly don't think there will be any? Eek

On that reasoned basis, I think you are pessimistic, and not a realist at all, jsut trying to camouflage your pessimism with a totally illusory claim to reasoned analysis where there is none.

I always want Spurs to do well. I'd love it if we won the title, I would dance down the street naked if we did.

Yes we had injury setbacks but that's the whole part of having a squad and it wasn't good enough.

Apart from Adebayor we have a mediocre strikeforce. If he gets injured then it will be like last season again.

You said yourself we're massive outsiders for the title, that's what this thread is about. Not finishing 4th, 3rd or 2nd.

City and United won't drop that many points and City will chuck another 50-100m at their team in January as Mancini wants to improve his midfield. Chelsea will probably strengthen then too to guarantee a top 4 finish.

I do think we can get fourth. Adebayor is an improvement on Crouch, Parker is an improvement on O'hara/Jenas and already looks excellent in our team. Friedel looks instantly comfortable too. I think we could push Chelsea a bit of the way but they'll finish above us, but again that has nothing to do with the thread because it's about us winning the title, which will not happen. I'd be pleased if the gap is less than 25pts

 

[StartingPrice]

I always want Spurs to do well. I'd love it if we won the title, I would dance down the street naked if we did.

Yes we had injury setbacks but that's the whole part of having a squad and it wasn't good enough.

Apart from Adebayor we have a mediocre strikeforce. If he gets injured then it will be like last season again.

You said yourself we're massive outsiders for the title, that's what this thread is about. Not finishing 4th, 3rd or 2nd.

City and United won't drop that many points and City will chuck another 50-100m at their team in January as Mancini wants to improve his midfield. Chelsea will probably strengthen then too to guarantee a top 4 finish.

I do think we can get fourth. Adebayor is an improvement on Crouch, Parker is an improvement on O'hara/Jenas and already looks excellent in our team. Friedel looks instantly comfortable too. I think we could push Chelsea a bit of the way but they'll finish above us, but again that has nothing to do with the thread because it's about us winning the title, which will not happen. I'd be pleased if the gap is less than 25pts

Really, what this thread is about is saying we have a really good team now, barring injuries, and no matter how much of an outside chance it is, it may be worth having a fling on us winning the lead at the odds offered. It wasn't meant to be taken ultra-seriously as an assertion of our amazing favourite chances of winning the title :wink: