What our opponents' fans are saying about us 18/19
- Thread starter EmperorKabir
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BehindEnemyLines
Twisting a Melon with the Rev. Black Grape
- Apr 13, 2006
- 4,646
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That's the Liverpool answer to losing.........wanna fight?
hellava_tough
Well-Known Member
- Apr 21, 2005
- 9,429
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Ramos would batter him
Locotoro
Prince of Zamunda
- Sep 2, 2004
- 9,402
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riggi
Well-Known Member
- Jun 24, 2008
- 48,565
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Huh?
Locotoro
Prince of Zamunda
- Sep 2, 2004
- 9,402
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Autocorrect killed my post
Monkey boy
Well-Known Member
- Jun 18, 2011
- 6,431
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I really hope the irony is not lost on them here after all the JFT96 hashtags and other sickening things they associate with that awful tragedy.
olliec
Well-Known Member
- Jun 20, 2012
- 3,595
- 11,800
Read this just as I was having Breakfast, runny eggs as well. I feel a bit ill now, thanks!
TottenhamMattSpur
Well-Known Member
- Aug 31, 2012
- 10,925
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"Isss not aaaaare fault kid, we got there, without a tikkkkkkket, they wouldn't lerroos in likkkke, so we had to take over and batter a few stewards likkkke, boowee gorrindere likkkke kid"
Seafordian Spurs
Well-Known Member
- Aug 20, 2013
- 2,157
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Christ, what a thick bastard.
spud
Well-Known Member
- Sep 2, 2003
- 5,850
- 8,794
I'm not sure which is more sad; the fact that he tweeted it, or that 242 shitheads have 'liked' it.
Posted by a Liverpool fan on RAWK. I find this so despicable:
https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=342966.0
JFT96 vs Heysel: What rival fans don't want you to realise
On occasion I like to engage with Rival supporters on matters football, including sometimes visiting rival fan forums or chats. One of the things that caught me askew, is the occasional refrain of Liverpool fans as ‘victims’. Specifically, they like to throw out ‘JFT39’ in regards to Heysel. I was probably a babe then so I couldn’t watch soccer to understand the situation behind it, but I decided to do some research, on both the Hillsborough and Heysel disaster.
What I found was very different scenarios. This post, from my limited research knowledge, is designed to give you an understanding of the two incidents, why there is such a zeal behind the JFT96 movement, and why it is only those with a complete lack of understanding who would try and link the two. And likewise, will give you the knowledge you need to have better discussions.
Let’s start with Heysel. 1985. The key facts summary is, For the Champions Cup final, the stadium location was chosen by UEFA. This stadium was known to be in a decrepit state with even Arsenal players complaining bitterly about the stadium earlier that season. Both the Juve and Liverpool Chairs asked UEFA to think of alternatives close by (Nou camp, Bernabeu) that were available. The request was denied. Perhaps due to the usual political reasons. During the match, the fans were separated by chicken wire fences. The Juve Ultras though, were on the opposite side of the pitch to the Liverpool hard men. Despite this, at some point, there was some scuffling and banter between the supporters at this Liverpool end that saw projectiles thrown over between the supporters. AT this, some Liverpool fans breached the fence and charged the Juve fans. But many of these fans were not Ultras and many fled. During the charge away from the breach, there was a wall collapse and many of the dead died of asphyxiation from the press. The Ultras broke from the other side of the pitch and running battles ensued with police with even one fan shooting at police.
After this incident, UEFA held Liverpool fans ultimately and largely accountable. What followed was a ban on English clubs that were at the time seen as the source of fan trouble. All English clubs were banned for 5 years, with Liverpool banned for 8 years. Liverpools ban was later reduced to 6 years. Some of the Liverpool fans were caught on film, held responsible for the charge and extradited and charged with manslaughter. And jailed. However, the British government did not agree with UEFAs verdict, and sent its own team to Heysel to investigate the stadium, with the Chief officer citing in his report stating, and I quote ‘…the deaths were attributable very, very largely to the appalling state of the stadium’. Despite this knowledge, the club took this hit on the chin, with apologies and spent a considerable time trying to repair relations with Juventus. During the 6 year ban that ensued, Liverpool is the only team in England that would have consistently qualified for Europe, and so a Golden age of its players were deprived from European competition at this time. So while the facts showed there was some fan culpability here, UEFA did not come down lightly on Liverpool or its fans. With some even seeing jail time.
The Hillsborough/JFT96 case was different. This was a case in which Liverpool fans at Sheffield lost their lives, largely due to the incompetence of a police force to manage crowd control, & the inability of the FA to uphold fan safety over TV money by refusing to delay the game to allow for crowd control.
The main reason why the families of the victims were seeking justice, is because for the longest time, the tragedy was painted as a fault of the actual fans, including some of the dead. The police invoked ‘mass drunkenness’ and ‘unruliness’ stating people were trying to get into the grounds on fake tickets or for free, when this have been ultimately claims that have been proven false. The people actually empowered to keep people safe failed in their Jobs and pointed fingers . The sun newspaper wrongly printed that the dead were pickpocketed and that police rendering first aid to the dying were beaten. These again were all false, and allowed the tragedy to be seen as just ‘another group of rowdy fans’ and the consequences of their disorder. The police were deliberately evasive and refused to take responsibility for their ineptitude. For the people who were there, who knew the truth, burying loved ones knowing their reputations have been soiled, and fighting to not just clear their names, but to hold those accountable responsible, is the entire reason for the ‘JFT96’ movement.
So next time you see/read a rival fan, throw out a JFT39, in response to the remembrances around JFT96, know that their key aim is to denigrate on the efforts of those who have spend the bulk of their lives fighting for real justice. For while both tragedies brought loss to families, the Hillsborough's injustice followed after the tragedy, with folk trying to abdicate responsibility and pin it on both the injured, dead and/or bereaved. Ask them what Justice they are really after...because UEFA did come down heavy on England and Liverpool. And people did go to jail. OR ask them not to spread ignorance on an issue they know so little about.
And while I empathise with the families of the Juventus fans killed in Heysel, and know that no action can serve as recompense for their loss, the efforts by UEFA and governments that saw rival fans jailed, and an entire nation banned for half a decade from European competition, must have provided, if not fully, at least a semblance of justice. (Though I think it would have been more complete if people in UEFA who made the decisions on where to host, or even how to manage the fans within the stadium were also held to account.)
They say knowledge is power, so I hope this small piece helps you feel more empowered as I do now, as I better understand the history of this club.
https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=342966.0
JFT96 vs Heysel: What rival fans don't want you to realise
On occasion I like to engage with Rival supporters on matters football, including sometimes visiting rival fan forums or chats. One of the things that caught me askew, is the occasional refrain of Liverpool fans as ‘victims’. Specifically, they like to throw out ‘JFT39’ in regards to Heysel. I was probably a babe then so I couldn’t watch soccer to understand the situation behind it, but I decided to do some research, on both the Hillsborough and Heysel disaster.
What I found was very different scenarios. This post, from my limited research knowledge, is designed to give you an understanding of the two incidents, why there is such a zeal behind the JFT96 movement, and why it is only those with a complete lack of understanding who would try and link the two. And likewise, will give you the knowledge you need to have better discussions.
Let’s start with Heysel. 1985. The key facts summary is, For the Champions Cup final, the stadium location was chosen by UEFA. This stadium was known to be in a decrepit state with even Arsenal players complaining bitterly about the stadium earlier that season. Both the Juve and Liverpool Chairs asked UEFA to think of alternatives close by (Nou camp, Bernabeu) that were available. The request was denied. Perhaps due to the usual political reasons. During the match, the fans were separated by chicken wire fences. The Juve Ultras though, were on the opposite side of the pitch to the Liverpool hard men. Despite this, at some point, there was some scuffling and banter between the supporters at this Liverpool end that saw projectiles thrown over between the supporters. AT this, some Liverpool fans breached the fence and charged the Juve fans. But many of these fans were not Ultras and many fled. During the charge away from the breach, there was a wall collapse and many of the dead died of asphyxiation from the press. The Ultras broke from the other side of the pitch and running battles ensued with police with even one fan shooting at police.
After this incident, UEFA held Liverpool fans ultimately and largely accountable. What followed was a ban on English clubs that were at the time seen as the source of fan trouble. All English clubs were banned for 5 years, with Liverpool banned for 8 years. Liverpools ban was later reduced to 6 years. Some of the Liverpool fans were caught on film, held responsible for the charge and extradited and charged with manslaughter. And jailed. However, the British government did not agree with UEFAs verdict, and sent its own team to Heysel to investigate the stadium, with the Chief officer citing in his report stating, and I quote ‘…the deaths were attributable very, very largely to the appalling state of the stadium’. Despite this knowledge, the club took this hit on the chin, with apologies and spent a considerable time trying to repair relations with Juventus. During the 6 year ban that ensued, Liverpool is the only team in England that would have consistently qualified for Europe, and so a Golden age of its players were deprived from European competition at this time. So while the facts showed there was some fan culpability here, UEFA did not come down lightly on Liverpool or its fans. With some even seeing jail time.
The Hillsborough/JFT96 case was different. This was a case in which Liverpool fans at Sheffield lost their lives, largely due to the incompetence of a police force to manage crowd control, & the inability of the FA to uphold fan safety over TV money by refusing to delay the game to allow for crowd control.
The main reason why the families of the victims were seeking justice, is because for the longest time, the tragedy was painted as a fault of the actual fans, including some of the dead. The police invoked ‘mass drunkenness’ and ‘unruliness’ stating people were trying to get into the grounds on fake tickets or for free, when this have been ultimately claims that have been proven false. The people actually empowered to keep people safe failed in their Jobs and pointed fingers . The sun newspaper wrongly printed that the dead were pickpocketed and that police rendering first aid to the dying were beaten. These again were all false, and allowed the tragedy to be seen as just ‘another group of rowdy fans’ and the consequences of their disorder. The police were deliberately evasive and refused to take responsibility for their ineptitude. For the people who were there, who knew the truth, burying loved ones knowing their reputations have been soiled, and fighting to not just clear their names, but to hold those accountable responsible, is the entire reason for the ‘JFT96’ movement.
So next time you see/read a rival fan, throw out a JFT39, in response to the remembrances around JFT96, know that their key aim is to denigrate on the efforts of those who have spend the bulk of their lives fighting for real justice. For while both tragedies brought loss to families, the Hillsborough's injustice followed after the tragedy, with folk trying to abdicate responsibility and pin it on both the injured, dead and/or bereaved. Ask them what Justice they are really after...because UEFA did come down heavy on England and Liverpool. And people did go to jail. OR ask them not to spread ignorance on an issue they know so little about.
And while I empathise with the families of the Juventus fans killed in Heysel, and know that no action can serve as recompense for their loss, the efforts by UEFA and governments that saw rival fans jailed, and an entire nation banned for half a decade from European competition, must have provided, if not fully, at least a semblance of justice. (Though I think it would have been more complete if people in UEFA who made the decisions on where to host, or even how to manage the fans within the stadium were also held to account.)
They say knowledge is power, so I hope this small piece helps you feel more empowered as I do now, as I better understand the history of this club.
dontcallme
SC Supporter
- Mar 18, 2005
- 34,355
- 83,686
I have always felt connecting the two cases to be in poor taste.
I do not like the Liverpool fan culture. I believe they have a victim mentality, a delusional sense of grandeur and an arrogance that no fan should have let alone one who has never won the Prem.
However, none of that changes that the actions of the authorities and treatment of the Hillsborough victims to be anything less than disgusting.
TottenhamMattSpur
Well-Known Member
- Aug 31, 2012
- 10,925
- 16,007
It can be everyone involved at fault, not just one or the other.
That's what annoys people. Yes, the stadium in both cases was a disaster waiting to happen.
Yes, in the 80's policing and crowd management was a disaster waiting to happen.
And... yes, crowds themselves led to problems. Especially when they were there when they shouldn't be.
The JFT96 group seems to be brutally attacking everyone but the Liverpool fans who were there, without tickets, that pushed into the stadium once the chance arose.
Everyone involved needs to be held accountable.
dontcallme
SC Supporter
- Mar 18, 2005
- 34,355
- 83,686
The issue wasn’t caused by fans without tickets. It was caused by all fans going through one gate rather than several.
Can we also get justice for Chelsea, seeing as at a press conference the Liverpool board initially blamed the death of 39 fans at heysel on rogue Chelsea fans who went to cause trouble. Even though that has been proved a load of nonsense, no one has said sorry.
(And yes I hate Chelsea, but still....)
(And yes I hate Chelsea, but still....)
spursphil
Tottenham To The Bone
- Aug 8, 2008
- 517
- 98
I can't believe people are still banging on about ticketless fans pushing in!!! This has been proved wrong by the Hillsborough enquiry. They have countless hours of footage from BBC cameras, police CCTV footage, club cameras etc. Not to mention thousands of pictures from journalists. All this was analysed by investigators, and head counts taken of those on the leppings lane terrace.
At No point did the numbers on the terrace exceed the amount of tickets issued.
That myth has been around for far to long, I was on that same terrace in 81 and if it wasn't for lack of pens and the police opening the gates it would be Spurs fans being lied about for years.
dontcallme
SC Supporter
- Mar 18, 2005
- 34,355
- 83,686
This is the issue. It got put out there and was believed.
Despite being shown to be a lie there are still people using it to tar the fans.
It’s as disgusting as it is stupid.
But that is the power of a lie.
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