Wayne Rooney

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For those who feel that this demeans the honour of international recognition, can I just say Carl Jenkinson, Fraizer Campbell, Matt Jarvis, Jay Bothroyd, Bobby Zamora, Zat Knight, Geoff Thomas, Carlton Palmer, Joey Barton, David Nugent, Michael Ricketts and Jon fucking Flanagan?

If anyone is guilty of trivialising an England call-up, it's not Wayne Rooney. It's the cockwombles and shitehawks appointed to run the England football team for the past 30 years.

Oh, and while I'm on the subject of Rooney...

It still pains me that the fat trollop scored the last ever goal at WHL :depressed:
I like to think of it as the last ever goal by a losing team at White Hart Lane.

The last ever goal by a winning team was, of course, scored by Harry Kane.
 

beats1

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For those who feel that this demeans the honour of international recognition, can I just say Carl Jenkinson, Fraizer Campbell, Matt Jarvis, Jay Bothroyd, Bobby Zamora, Zat Knight, Geoff Thomas, Carlton Palmer, Joey Barton, David Nugent, Michael Ricketts and Jon fucking Flanagan?

If anyone is guilty of trivialising an England call-up, it's not Wayne Rooney. It's the cockwombles and shitehawks appointed to run the England football team for the past 30 years.

Oh, and while I'm on the subject of Rooney...
No offence but a few of those players deserved their cap.

Bothroyd - May not be a big fancy striker but he is a very good in the limited things he does. He holds up the ball well.
Zamora - The same as above for Zamora, who before a major injury was linked with big teams

Im sure alot of those selections involved injuries and those players being in great form
 

nailsy

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I was surprised but it's a friendly for the Wayne Rooney Foundation.
The gate receipts are still going to the FA. Apparently the fans are just being given a chance to make a donation.

If it's for charity in a meaningless friendly then I don't see the reason for the outrage.
I can see why. We're told that players like Kane are called up to friendlies because it's important for the manager to play the best players together so he can learn about them and develop the team. Playing Rooney in this game doesn't help the team development so why should teams lend their players if the game isn't being treated seriously?
 

'O Zio

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If it's for charity in a meaningless friendly then I don't see the reason for the outrage.
See if you're still saying that if Kane breaks his leg or something. If it's a proper game then fair enough, I don't like it but Kane has to play. But if it's just some Rooney wankfest that doesn't mean anything then I don't want our key players being risked for it. Also in the grand scheme of things why the hell is Rooney getting a testimonial? OK he's the top scorer but if you actually go through his tournaments for England he's had one good tournament when he was still about 18, and ever since then he's been a complete waste of space at best, and a hindrance at worst due to everyone's determination to shoehorn him into the team to our detriment.
 

Saoirse

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See if you're still saying that if Kane breaks his leg or something. If it's a proper game then fair enough, I don't like it but Kane has to play. But if it's just some Rooney wankfest that doesn't mean anything then I don't want our key players being risked for it. Also in the grand scheme of things why the hell is Rooney getting a testimonial? OK he's the top scorer but if you actually go through his tournaments for England he's had one good tournament when he was still about 18, and ever since then he's been a complete waste of space at best, and a hindrance at worst due to everyone's determination to shoehorn him into the team to our detriment.
If Kane becomes our all-time top goalscorer but never wins a trophy or scores in a cup final I'd very much like to think we'd still give him a testimonial - a proper one, not subbing him on for a few minutes of a random friendly so he can say goodbye!
 

Shadydan

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See if you're still saying that if Kane breaks his leg or something. If it's a proper game then fair enough, I don't like it but Kane has to play. But if it's just some Rooney wankfest that doesn't mean anything then I don't want our key players being risked for it. Also in the grand scheme of things why the hell is Rooney getting a testimonial? OK he's the top scorer but if you actually go through his tournaments for England he's had one good tournament when he was still about 18, and ever since then he's been a complete waste of space at best, and a hindrance at worst due to everyone's determination to shoehorn him into the team to our detriment.
Why can't it be both? Rooney will only play 45 mins and by all accounts we don't want our players playing in meaningless friendlies anyway so it f he replaces Kane at HT then what's the problem?

Look, nothing has changed since the announcement, it's still a friendly and the players will still get the necessary minutes and Southgate can still experiment...Also in the grand scheme of things his past tournaments or his displays are irrelevant, you can label the same thing for practically every other England player from the past 20 years, the difference is that Rooney managed to amass a whole load of England caps which must be worth something which is probably why he's getting a send off.

I get it, people don't like it because it's Rooney, he's an unpopular choice and towards his final years he picked up a load of 'undeserved' caps blah blah blah but really it's one friendly which I'm told no one cares about anyway so I'm a bit bemused by the outrage.
 

'O Zio

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If Kane becomes our all-time top goalscorer but never wins a trophy or scores in a cup final I'd very much like to think we'd still give him a testimonial - a proper one, not subbing him on for a few minutes of a random friendly so he can say goodbye!
Hard to really compare because of how international football is scheduled, but I'd say Rooney is like the equivalent of if Kane was our top scorer but only ever scored in friendly matches and the first round of cup competitions, but went missing in the PL and CL and latter rounds of the cup competitions. Rooney is England's top goalscorer but in no way shape or form is he an England "legend".

Also, clubs have a tradition of giving players testimonials after 10 years or whatever it is. As far as I know nobody has every had some kind of England "testimonial" or whatever the hell this is supposed to be. If the likes of Moore, Hurst, Charlton etc. didn't get one then Wayne bloody Rooney certainly doesn't deserve to start the trend.
 

'O Zio

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Why can't it be both? Rooney will only play 45 mins and by all accounts we don't want our players playing in meaningless friendlies anyway so it f he replaces Kane at HT then what's the problem?

Look, nothing has changed since the announcement, it's still a friendly and the players will still get the necessary minutes and Southgate can still experiment...Also in the grand scheme of things his past tournaments or his displays are irrelevant, you can label the same thing for practically every other England player from the past 20 years, the difference is that Rooney managed to amass a whole load of England caps which must be worth something which is probably why he's getting a send off.

I get it, people don't like it because it's Rooney, he's an unpopular choice and towards his final years he picked up a load of 'undeserved' caps blah blah blah but really it's one friendly which I'm told no one cares about anyway so I'm a bit bemused by the outrage.
It's not because I have some personal dislike of Rooney, I just think it smacks of exactly the kind of nonsense that held us back for pretty much my entire lifetime. One of the key reasons we've been shit in tournaments is due to pandering to the same old list of "stars" and shoehorning into a group of 11 individuals that don't really work well together rather than building a team. Finally Southgate has come along and at least appeared to "get it" that we need to pick the best team not the 11 most famous people we can crowbar into the squad, he's finally got rid of Rooney, only for them to start up this nonsense testimonial type thing for Rooney now. For me it's just a perfect example of how the powers that be at the FA/England team still haven't learned their lessons from the past 15-20 years of banging our heads against the wall.

It's not just because it's Rooney. I'd feel the same way regardless of who it is because it's just not a good way to make use of the time with the players that the clubs have released. One of the things international managers complain about is not having any time to work with the players so to me it's just idiotic to waste one of the few occasions they get to pander to some has-been ex-player's ego rather than use the time productively. It's just so typical of them it's almost laughable.
 

Shadydan

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It's not because I have some personal dislike of Rooney, I just think it smacks of exactly the kind of nonsense that held us back for pretty much my entire lifetime. One of the key reasons we've been shit in tournaments is due to pandering to the same old list of "stars" and shoehorning into a group of 11 individuals that don't really work well together rather than building a team. Finally Southgate has come along and at least appeared to "get it" that we need to pick the best team not the 11 most famous people we can crowbar into the squad, he's finally got rid of Rooney, only for them to start up this nonsense testimonial type thing for Rooney now. For me it's just a perfect example of how the powers that be at the FA/England team still haven't learned their lessons from the past 15-20 years of banging our heads against the wall.

It's not just because it's Rooney. I'd feel the same way regardless of who it is because it's just not a good way to make use of the time with the players that the clubs have released. One of the things international managers complain about is not having any time to work with the players so to me it's just idiotic to waste one of the few occasions they get to pander to some has-been ex-player's ego rather than use the time productively.
Right I get all this but he'll be playing for 45 mins at the most, is that really gonna make such a massive difference?
 

'O Zio

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Right I get all this but he'll be playing for 45 mins at the most, is that really gonna make such a massive difference?
He shouldn't be playing at all. You can say "Why can't it be both" but at the end of the day why the fuck should it? They don't have much time with the players anyway so wasting half of the time they've got, both in the match and during preparations, faffing about with all this testimonial nonsense is just ridiculous.

If the FA/England really are serious about trying to compete for the World Cup and/or Euros, then they need to start taking it seriously over the course of many years. You can't just turn up once every 4 years and expect to compete, you need to build up a system and culture both on and off the field over the course of 5-10 years. Like I say, this sort of thing is just a classic example of how the attitude at the FA is still so far from where it needs to be. The "outrage" as you put it, at least from my end, isn't necessarily exclusively related to Rooney and the testimonial, it's the wider issue that it represents that I have the problem with. Like I said in my last post, I thought we were starting to look like we finally "got it" and were taking the first steps in the right direction but the fact that this has been allowed to happen shows that the same attitude still exists at the FA i.e. that we have the arrogance to think that we can pander to these big names, mess about in friendlies etc. and still just turn up to the World Cup and compete in 4 years time because "We're England". It beggars belief.

To me it's not dissimilar to the attitude at Arsenal in Wenger's latter years i.e. not having the drive and competitiveness to do whatever it takes to win, instead being more bothered about taking selfies and drifting through games etc. This Rooney thing shows me that the FA have that kind of attitude, they're not prepared to be ruthless in their pursuit of success.
 

Shadydan

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He shouldn't be playing at all. You can say "Why can't it be both" but at the end of the day why the fuck should it? They don't have much time with the players anyway so wasting half of the time they've got, both in the match and during preparations, faffing about with all this testimonial nonsense is just ridiculous.

If the FA/England really are serious about trying to compete for the World Cup and/or Euros, then they need to start taking it seriously over the course of many years. You can't just turn up once every 4 years and expect to compete, you need to build up a system and culture both on and off the field over the course of 5-10 years. Like I say, this sort of thing is just a classic example of how the attitude at the FA is still so far from where it needs to be. The "outrage" as you put it, at least from my end, isn't necessarily exclusively related to Rooney and the testimonial, it's the wider issue that it represents that I have the problem with. Like I said in my last post, I thought we were starting to look like we finally "got it" and were taking the first steps in the right direction but the fact that this has been allowed to happen shows that the same attitude still exists at the FA i.e. that we have the arrogance to think that we can pander to these big names, mess about in friendlies etc. and still just turn up to the World Cup and compete in 4 years time because "We're England". It beggars belief.

To me it's not dissimilar to the attitude at Arsenal in Wenger's latter years i.e. not having the drive and competitiveness to do whatever it takes to win, instead being more bothered about taking selfies and drifting through games etc. This Rooney thing shows me that the FA have that kind of attitude, they're not prepared to be ruthless in their pursuit of success.
So hold up, one player is going to play a non competitive match and you're actually comparing it to the times when England used to pick players not on merit which spanned over 20 years, ok then...In the grand scheme of things calling him up for one match makes fuck all difference to anyone, no that doesn't mean that England are gonna go back to picking players and trying to shoehorn them into the team, no that doesn't mean that they've stopped building a system or moved away from Southgate's philosophy and no it doesn't mean that England are all of a sudden gonna become Arsenal mark 2..I don't even know where you're going with that.

So for me there's no problem, if the FA continue to intervene and decide to do this on are regular then it becomes a problem but rewarding your most capped player in the modern era a 45 min cameo for charity in an otherwise meaningless friendly hardly warrants a stampede outside the FA headquarters, Jesus calm down, talk about an overreaction.
 

wakefieldyid

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He shouldn't be playing at all. You can say "Why can't it be both" but at the end of the day why the fuck should it? They don't have much time with the players anyway so wasting half of the time they've got, both in the match and during preparations, faffing about with all this testimonial nonsense is just ridiculous.

If the FA/England really are serious about trying to compete for the World Cup and/or Euros, then they need to start taking it seriously over the course of many years. You can't just turn up once every 4 years and expect to compete, you need to build up a system and culture both on and off the field over the course of 5-10 years. Like I say, this sort of thing is just a classic example of how the attitude at the FA is still so far from where it needs to be. The "outrage" as you put it, at least from my end, isn't necessarily exclusively related to Rooney and the testimonial, it's the wider issue that it represents that I have the problem with. Like I said in my last post, I thought we were starting to look like we finally "got it" and were taking the first steps in the right direction but the fact that this has been allowed to happen shows that the same attitude still exists at the FA i.e. that we have the arrogance to think that we can pander to these big names, mess about in friendlies etc. and still just turn up to the World Cup and compete in 4 years time because "We're England". It beggars belief.

To me it's not dissimilar to the attitude at Arsenal in Wenger's latter years i.e. not having the drive and competitiveness to do whatever it takes to win, instead being more bothered about taking selfies and drifting through games etc. This Rooney thing shows me that the FA have that kind of attitude, they're not prepared to be ruthless in their pursuit of success.
I see Marina Hyde in the Guardian is pretty much in agreement with many of the points you've been making.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/nov/07/fa-wayne-rooney-novelty-player-insult-us
 
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'O Zio

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So hold up, one player is going to play a non competitive match and you're actually comparing it to the times when England used to pick players not on merit which spanned over 20 years, ok then...In the grand scheme of things calling him up for one match makes fuck all difference to anyone, no that doesn't mean that England are gonna go back to picking players and trying to shoehorn them into the team, no that doesn't mean that they've stopped building a system or moved away from Southgate's philosophy and no it doesn't mean that England are all of a sudden gonna become Arsenal mark 2..I don't even know where you're going with that.

So for me there's no problem, if the FA continue to intervene and decide to do this on are regular then it becomes a problem but rewarding your most capped player in the modern era a 45 min cameo for charity in an otherwise meaningless friendly hardly warrants a stampede outside the FA headquarters, Jesus calm down, talk about an overreaction.
My point is it's about the attitude that this entire thing represents. It's an attitude that I thought they'd finally realised was the wrong one but this nonsense is a step backwards in that sense IMO. Like I say it's not about one match, one player etc. it's about the overall problems with the England team/FA that this goes to show are still there.

My point about Arsenal is that they've recently had the same attitude problem. They just weren't a team with the right attitude/mentality to win things because they weren't ruthless in their pursuit of doing everything it takes to be successful. Arsenal, like the FA, were happy enough just doddling along and saying the right things when asked, but weren't prepared to give it their all and put everything they had into it. England/The FA have that same mentality where they say they want to compete etc. but for the past 20 years they haven't had that ruthless attitude to do what it takes. It may seem like a small thing in isolation but the combination of all these small things adds up to a team that is just not good enough to win the major trophies. If you want to serious turn England into a football powerhouse then you have to take all the marginal gains seriously and not just dial it in until you get to a tournament and suddenly expect everything to work itself out.
 

Shadydan

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My point is it's about the attitude that this entire thing represents. It's an attitude that I thought they'd finally realised was the wrong one but this nonsense is a step backwards in that sense IMO. Like I say it's not about one match, one player etc. it's about the overall problems with the England team/FA that this goes to show are still there.

My point about Arsenal is that they've recently had the same attitude problem. They just weren't a team with the right attitude/mentality to win things because they weren't ruthless in their pursuit of doing everything it takes to be successful. Arsenal, like the FA, were happy enough just doddling along and saying the right things when asked, but weren't prepared to give it their all and put everything they had into it. England/The FA have that same mentality where they say they want to compete etc. but for the past 20 years they haven't had that ruthless attitude to do what it takes. It may seem like a small thing in isolation but the combination of all these small things adds up to a team that is just not good enough to win the major trophies. If you want to serious turn England into a football powerhouse then you have to take all the marginal gains seriously and not just dial it in until you get to a tournament and suddenly expect everything to work itself out.
I know, I was being facetious... ;)

I guess my over riding point is let's just wait until England start to go back to how they were pre Southgate before we start to deem England a failure and accuse them of going back to the past. I understand that people now are used to new England and since the World Cup have given people fresh optimism and hope for the national side since the World cup and Rooney very much represents the era of failure in past tournaments when they used to shoehorn players in the side which is why I think there's an over reaction however I really think this call up is a one off and don't think it's a representation of the current England setup.

The funny thing for is that no one gave or gives a fuck about International's apart from the World Cup especially friendlies, so all of sudden since this announcement people now care and need their voices heard on the matter :D
 

'O Zio

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I know, I was being facetious... ;)

I guess my over riding point is let's just wait until England start to go back to how they were pre Southgate before we start to deem England a failure and accuse them of going back to the past. I understand that people now are used to new England and since the World Cup have given people fresh optimism and hope for the national side since the World cup and Rooney very much represents the era of failure in past tournaments when they used to shoehorn players in the side which is why I think there's an over reaction however I really think this call up is a one off and don't think it's a representation of the current England setup.

The funny thing for is that no one gave or gives a fuck about International's apart from the World Cup especially friendlies, so all of sudden since this announcement people now care and need their voices heard on the matter :D
Fair enough, I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom, I don't think this means we're going to suddenly go back to the dark ages. I just find it incredibly frustrating that we're still even entertaining bollocks like this, even if in isolation it probably doesn't do much harm.
 

nailsy

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If Kane becomes our all-time top goalscorer but never wins a trophy or scores in a cup final I'd very much like to think we'd still give him a testimonial - a proper one, not subbing him on for a few minutes of a random friendly so he can say goodbye!
Rooney was actually presented with a trophy for becoming Englands top scorer though. Not sure why he needs this now.
 

Rocksuperstar

just a child getting older...
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This is in America though, they don't understand beer at all.

"Can I have a pint of something that doesn't taste like watered down piss, please, mate?"
"We've got Budweiser..."
"Are you fucking serious?"
++cuffs++
 
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