Vertonghen as DM?

[Everlasting Seconds]

The worst thing about his present role in the team is that he is actually a fair finisher. But he hasn't been allowed to have a go as a part of the attacks for ages, and that skill is dormant. Save when he was in ... uhm ... offside.

 

[THOWIG]

Personally I think it's his best position. At times at Ajax he was almost playing as a sweeper, bombing forward from deeper positions and he had a decent goal scoring record.

 

[Matthew Wyatt]

Reading this thread it occurs to me once again: why don't we play 433? I recall it was Pochettino's favoured formation and I can't see how we don't have the players for it. Thoughts?

 

[not_tenth-again]

I say we bring back Scotty Parker!

Fire up the Delorean. We need him to be the 2010 or 2011 version... or better still the pre Chelsea version.

 

[Blackcanary]

Reading this thread it occurs to me once again: why don't we play 433? I recall it was Pochettino's favoured formation and I can't see how we don't have the players for it. Thoughts?

I don't think it's Poch's favoured formation, but we do definitely have the players for it and I think it would make a massive difference in sorting out how porous how we are (since we could play a DM in the 3 and drop one of the lazy front wide players). The experiment with Dembele in the AM3 was the nearest variation we've seen and I thought that improved us but he's since dropped it. You could try Mason in that front 3 too,

Even if he's reluctant to play it as a main formation, I think it could be a useful plan B.

 

[eddiev14]

Am I the only one who still thinks Jan is a good centre back?

 

[tttcowan]

He's a left back.

I got 4 funnies for this and 1 creative which I very much appreciate... I'm not joking though... He is a left back. Just gets to play centre back because we don't have anyone else and he's a whingy lil bitch.

 

[JerryGarcia]

Am I the only one who still thinks Jan is a good centre back?

No I think he's the best we've got by a long distance. He's prone to the odd mistake but so are all defenders, I think he'd look much better though if he had a real leader next to him in the mould of Puyol (I don't want to mention the racist Chelsea captain) who can organise things better.

 

[double0]

No I think he's the best we've got by a long distance. He's prone to the odd mistake but so are all defenders, I think he'd look much better though if he had a real leader next to him in the mould of Puyol (I don't want to mention the racist Chelsea captain) who can organise things better.

The racist captain in left footed so that won't work.

For me Vertonghen isn't a natural CB I don't rate him at all there however at left back his different animal.

 

[faze_coys]

Hes terrible at left back, his positioning is awful.

 

[JerryGarcia]

The racist captain in left footed so that won't work.

For me Vertonghen isn't a natural CB I don't rate him at all there however at left back his different animal.

Wasn't suggesting we sign him


At the end of the day the defence is only going to be as strong as the weakest link, I don't think Vertonghen is that weak link. Even when we had King we let in sloppy goals and while Jan isn't at King's level he's closer than anyone else we have.

To have a solid defence we need

• More protection in front of the back line
• More organization from set pieces and general play
• Full backs who don't need their hands held (we could achieve this with our current ones through coaching but it will take time)
  
• A top class hard working CB
• More bullet points

 

[Shadydan]

I got 4 funnies for this and 1 creative which I very much appreciate... I'm not joking though... He is a left back. Just gets to play centre back because we don't have anyone else and he's a whingy lil bitch.

He's a better centre back though and he's no better than Rose is at left back.

 

[philip]

All we need is to play a DM in front of the ball four. We're currently playing very attacking full backs, ball playing CBs and high up the pitch, but with no one detailed to win the ball back in midfield and protect that attacking back line. That is suicide and the main reason we're conceding in practically every single game.

 

[shelfboy68]

All we need is to play a DM in front of the ball four. We're currently playing very attacking full backs, ball playing CBs and high up the pitch, but with no one detailed to win the ball back in midfield and protect that attacking back line. That is suicide and the main reason we're conceding in practically every single game.

Poch favours a pressing game yet i see very little evidence to show for it yet, to be effective we have to press from the front yet very few if any do.
All i see is people chasing around missing their man and leaving fucking great gaps behind or passing straight to the opposition, add into the mix a defence built from crêpe paper and everyones a winner.

 

[Greenspur]

The problem isn't that we don't play the right DM, it's that we don't play a system that even has a slot for a DM...

We should be looking at something more like this:

---------- DM ----------

Mason ------- Bentaleb

Or inverted:

Bentaleb ----- DM (Capoue/Stambouli)

-------- Eriksen/Mason --------

Two sitting there expected to do all the work, with no support from LM or RM is not enough. I can't stand 4-2-3-1.

I agree with your first scenario, and I think that Verts could possibly be the DM in that formation. This is why I started the thread - to see if anyone else agreed. He is quite comfortable on the ball, and has a defenders instinct. He's just not strong enough to play central defence (in my opinion), but would be ideal as DM in a 'three'.

 

[225]

Didn't he sign for us over arsenal because Wenger saw him as a DM not a CB?

 

[eddiev14]

No I think he's the best we've got by a long distance. He's prone to the odd mistake but so are all defenders, I think he'd look much better though if he had a real leader next to him in the mould of Puyol (I don't want to mention the racist Chelsea captain) who can organise things better.

Agreed.

 

[double0]

All we need is to play a DM in front of the ball four. We're currently playing very attacking full backs, ball playing CBs and high up the pitch, but with no one detailed to win the ball back in midfield and protect that attacking back line. That is suicide and the main reason we're conceding in practically every single game.

Ball playing CB that can't defend is the problem not the midfield not the full backs. Dier is still learning the game so we can't be that hard also I feel he will improve, It's Fazio first season he does have many defensive qualities but lacks pace on the turn, Vertonghen for me just isn't a natual defender, it's like playing Capoue at CB.

 

[fatpiranha]

One possible solution (though a bit left field) would be to play Chiriches as a DM (or whatever our system allows). He has many poor qualities as a defender (not least his abject positioning and mediocre aerial ability) but these are less of a problem in midfield. His good qualities (excellent pace, decent tackling and ability to run with the ball) fit in nicely with our high line if he isn't the last line of defence.

He's a better fit than Vertonghen and Stambouli at DM because he has the pace to get back when the opposition are counterattacking or playing balls over the top. Apart from the occasional brainfart he's also not a bad passer of the ball and said brainfarts would be less calamitous higher up the pitch.

I doubt this will be a popular suggestion but given the lack of alternatives I think it's worth a shot.

 

[double0]

One possible solution (though a bit left field) would be to play Chiriches as a DM (or whatever our system allows). He has many poor qualities as a defender (not least his abject positioning and mediocre aerial ability) but these are less of a problem in midfield. His good qualities (excellent pace, decent tackling and ability to run with the ball) fit in nicely with our high line if he isn't the last line of defence.

He's a better fit than Vertonghen and Stambouli at DM because he has the pace to get back when the opposition are counterattacking or playing balls over the top. Apart from the occasional brainfart he's also not a bad passer of the ball and said brainfarts would be less calamitous higher up the pitch.

I doubt this will be a popular suggestion but given the lack of alternatives I think it's worth a shot.

I actually feel Chiriches is a good defender, but at times over plays, his defensive qualities ie tackling positioning is fairly good, he's one on one are much better than Vertonghen, but tbh we need better all round. Kaboul has all the attributes but lacks concentration so I agree it very difficult to get good defenders that like to defend.