Tottenham Vs Swansea: Match Thread

[Yid-ol]

Soldado's two penalties have earned us 6 points, the same as Defoe's 11 goals got us last season

Bit harsh to say this, as both goals are from penalties.

Also you are wrong. Defoe scored the winner against - Reading (Away), QPR (Home) and Villa (Away). And they are just the ones I had a quick look at

 

[Berglad]

Bit harsh to say this, as both goals are from penalties.

Also you are wrong. Defoe scored the winner against - Reading (Away), QPR (Home) and Villa (Away). And they are just the ones I had a quick look at

Defoe has about a 50% conversion rate on penalties, I think he's missed 4 of his last 6 or so for Spurs

obviously it's arguable if the other goals would have happened if Defoe's goals hadn't happened, but if you remove all his goals, we'd have drawn rather than won 3 games, his other goals weren't decisive.

we won against Reading 1-3, his 2 goals earned us 2 points
we won against QPR 1-2, his 1 goal earned us 2 points
we won against West Ham 3-1, his 2 goals earned us 2 points

we beat Villa away 0-4

 

[Kalim]

He started fouling more as he tired in the second half (didn't have a full pre-season and looked like he was blowing a little)

Same with Capoue, they will take a while to get used to the all game long pace of the PL.

 

[Gbspurs]

Arsenal can be as "creative" as they want next week, it won't get them far. What I saw today is a destructive, combative midfield which stiffles the opposition to such an extent that they struggle to play their usual game. Swansea aren't exactly stoke but could barely string a pass together in the midfield.

 

[Kalim]

AVBs tactics for Capoue for the NLD should simply be "destroy wilshere".

And dont get sent off

 

[Yid-ol]

Defoe has about a 50% conversion rate on penalties, I think he's missed 4 of his last 6 or so for Spurs

obviously it's arguable if the other goals would have happened if Defoe's goals hadn't happened, but if you remove all his goals, we'd have drawn rather than won 3 games, his other goals weren't decisive.

we won against Reading 1-3, his 2 goals earned us 2 points
we won against QPR 1-2, his 1 goal earned us 2 points
we won against West Ham 3-1, his 2 goals earned us 2 points

we beat Villa away 0-4

Ok, so going by your logic then you are still wrong. Defoe wins a game, 2 points, Soldado wins a game, 3 points!

how does that work??!?!

Soldado's two penalties have earned us 6 points, the same as Defoe's 11 goals got us last season

Soldado

We won agasint Crystal Palace 1-0 Soldados goal earned us 2 points
We won against Swansea 1-0 Soldados goal earned us 2 points

Defoe

scored the winners against -

Reading (Away), 2 points
QPR (Home) 2 points
Villa (Away) 2 points
Man City (Home) 2 points.

so that is 4-8

Now I am not having a go at Soldado, he has done great, but don't have a pop at other players with made up stats, lets try and get behind the players we have.... we aren't arsenal got god sake.

 

[Berglad]

Ok, so going by your logic then you are still wrong. Defoe wins a game, 2 points, Soldado wins a game, 3 points!

how does that work??!?!



Soldado

We won agasint Crystal Palace 1-0 Soldados goal earned us 2 points
We won against Swansea 1-0 Soldados goal earned us 2 points

Defoe

scored the winners against -

Reading (Away), 2 points
QPR (Home) 2 points
Villa (Away) 2 points
Man City (Home) 2 points.

so that is 4-8

Now I am not having a go at Soldado, he has done great, but don't have a pop at other players with made up stats, lets try and get behind the players we have.... we aren't arsenal got god sake.

good point, I was thinking of us having 6 points now but right, we'd have 2 without the goals!

but we beat Man City 3-1, without Defoe's goal it'd have been 2-1 (excepting the counterattack advantage of course)

 

[ohtottenham!]

Arsenal can be as "creative" as they want next week, it won't get them far. What I saw today is a destructive, combative midfield which stiffles the opposition to such an extent that they struggle to play their usual game. Swansea aren't exactly stoke but could barely string a pass together in the midfield.

Absolutely agree! Plus the fact that our midfield are virtual strangers to each other and we will just get better at shutting any opposition spark down as the season continues. Given our midfield's lack of familiarity and game time together, I thought it was amazing! Mourinho's kaibosh of Willian just shows how far we've come - he wouldn't have given us time of day a while back, now he's spending 30M on a position he's covered six times over. The creativity will arrive soon, I have faith in that. Plus, there's no way I see that we're going to leak goals this season.

 

[StartingPrice]

Disagree.

I am inviting intelligent opposition, not disparaging insults.

Is it really that difficult?

Perhaps you could help folk out by stating exactly how you believe GG's teams were set-out and performed, and how that relates to what we saw today.

For myself, I have to admit that I was not as compus in those days, thanks to an over-fondness of the pop, as I am now, but I can't remember him being particularly adventurous with his formations - I certainly can't ever remember him sending out a 4-3-3 (though maybe someone can correct me on that). His mantra seemed primarily to be focussed on discipline and organisation - and so in that regard, maybe, there are similarities with AVB. But his disciplined back line never pushed so far up the pitch afaicr. He send two wide men out, but that didn't really correspond with the front three, with overlapping full-backs and the wide-forwards cutting in onto their preferred foot, of a 4-3-3. He may have favoured an early reclamation of the ball (I suppose, though I can't remember anything specific on that - think he would have focussed more on getting everyone behind the ball rather than chasing it down), but I can't remember him being so proactive in this regard. I think if he did crowd the midfield out it was more with the intention of stifling the middle of the park and not with the intention of winning the ball in order to put the opposition onto the back foot again as soon as possible. AVB has a very clear philosophy on this, and I think you could see it in effect by the number of times Swansea gave the ball away as soon as they had won it, how much that pressure of not being allowed an outlet can begin to tell on a team. I believe he would have resorted more readily to the high ball than AVB, in fact I did see much evidence of that at all today.

I don't believe GG was quite as negative as some would make out (which isn't to say he wasn't negative at all), but, there again, I don't think we were particularly negative today, either - quite a few nice flicks, etc., and could quite easily have trotted out comfortable winners by 3 or 4 (as with Palace). We clearly do need someone more creative, which I believe is in the pipeline, and, yes, that inhibits our creativity and isolates Soldado a touch, but AVB can only work with what he has, and what he has produced, today, a victory that never really looked in doubt, and could have been far more comfortable but for the woodwork and some good work from Vorm (so credit there). Swansea did come back into the game, a touch (though, again, I would say we still looked pretty comfortable, all told), after we made our substitutions, but I think that was more a case of the substitutions giving them a slight window , while we still looked for a winner but just couldn't find one, rather than from any desire on our part to shut the game down and win one-nil.

So, all told, I can't quite see why you would say that. GG putting an extra man in midfield was not as pro-active as AVB doing it. His back-line was nothing like AVB's, which is being tutored to play high up the pitch, with the intention of aiding an early winning of the ball to keep the pressure on the oppos. And any similarity in forward play (which I believe to be grossly exaggerated) would be one of outcome, and not kind, as with AVB it is strictly a matter of abscence of personnel, whether via purchase or sulk-hood, whereas GG was setting his team out specifically how he wanted within the limits of quality available to him.

Like I said, though, maybe I saw things rather blearily back in them thar days. so maybe you could clarify your meaning

 

[StartingPrice]

Arsenal can be as "creative" as they want next week, it won't get them far. What I saw today is a destructive, combative midfield which stiffles the opposition to such an extent that they struggle to play their usual game. Swansea aren't exactly stoke but could barely string a pass together in the midfield.

That is exactly what I was thinking.
There is no way they will rampage through us like they did when our bunch capitulated from 2 up under Redknapp, and as for last season, we were down to ten men (thanks to Ade and his impetuosity) and still put up a spirited rear-guard, as I remember it.

Now, they are going to have to play out of their skin to get any time to settle into a rhythm.

 

[Brosama]

I didn't catch the game earlier. So there are no highlights on BBC OR Sky? That's a bit unusual..

Nevermind just realised it's on Sky now

 

[ohtottenham!]

Perhaps you could help folk out by stating exactly how you believe GG's teams were set-out and performed, and how that relates to what we saw today.

For myself, I have to admit that I was not as compus in those days, thanks to an over-fondness of the pop, as I am now, but I can't remember him being particularly adventurous with his formations - I certainly can't ever remember him sending out a 4-3-3 (though maybe someone can correct me on that). His mantra seemed primarily to be focussed on discipline and organisation - and so in that regard, maybe, there are similarities with AVB. But his disciplined back line never pushed so far up the pitch afaicr. He send two wide men out, but that didn't really correspond with the front three, with overlapping full-backs and the wide-forwards cutting in onto their preferred foot, of a 4-3-3. He may have favoured an early reclamation of the ball (I suppose, though I can't remember anything specific on that - think he would have focussed more on getting everyone behind the ball rather than chasing it down), but I can't remember him being so proactive in this regard. I think if he did crowd the midfield out it was more with the intention of stifling the middle of the park and not with the intention of winning the ball in order to put the opposition onto the back foot again as soon as possible. AVB has a very clear philosophy on this, and I think you could see it in effect by the number of times Swansea gave the ball away as soon as they had won it, how much that pressure of not being allowed an outlet can begin to tell on a team. I believe he would have resorted more readily to the high ball than AVB, in fact I did see much evidence of that at all today.

I don't believe GG was quite as negative as some would make out (which isn't to say he wasn't negative at all), but, there again, I don't think we were particularly negative today, either - quite a few nice flicks, etc., and could quite easily have trotted out comfortable winners by 3 or 4 (as with Palace). We clearly do need someone more creative, which I believe is in the pipeline, and, yes, that inhibits our creativity and isolates Soldado a touch, but AVB can only work with what he has, and what he has produced, today, a victory that never really looked in doubt, and could have been far more comfortable but for the woodwork and some good work from Vorm (so credit there). Swansea did come back into the game, a touch (though, again, I would say we still looked pretty comfortable, all told), after we made our substitutions, but I think that was more a case of the substitutions giving them a slight window , while we still looked for a winner but just couldn't find one, rather than from any desire on our part to shut the game down and win one-nil.

So, all told, I can't quite see why you would say that. GG putting an extra man in midfield was not as pro-active as AVB doing it. His back-line was nothing like AVB's, which is being tutored to play high up the pitch, with the intention of aiding an early winning of the ball to keep the pressure on the oppos. And any similarity in forward play (which I believe to be grossly exaggerated) would be one of outcome, and not kind, as with AVB it is strictly a matter of abscence of personnel, whether via purchase or sulk-hood, whereas GG was setting his team out specifically how he wanted within the limits of quality available to him.

Like I said, though, maybe I saw things rather blearily back in them thar days. so maybe you could clarify your meaning

How on earth are we actually comparing our team set-up and performance today, 2 games into a season with players that barely know each other in the craziest transfer window in history...which is only gonna get progressively more insane until it mercifully ends...WITH George Graham's Arsenal team?? Why are we doing this? Because of Geronimo's post. He's probably pissing himself...he knows what we're like. He's Tottenham after all. I think he's on a wind-up which is actually working pretty well as I'm typing this last full stop.

 

[Yid-ol]

good point, I was thinking of us having 6 points now but right, we'd have 2 without the goals!

but we beat Man City 3-1, without Defoe's goal it'd have been 2-1 (excepting the counterattack advantage of course)

But without defoe's goal we may not have scored another, so defoe's goal won us the game, 2 points gained from defoe's goal there.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

From what i heard on the wireless Capoue was almost omnipresent in the first half, and really getting stuck in too. I'm intrigued now as i'd not heard of the lad before he joined us but is he as promising as he sounds?

 

[StartingPrice]

How on earth are we actually comparing our team set-up and performance today, 2 games into a season with players that barely know each other in the craziest transfer window in history...which is only gonna get progressively more insane until it mercifully ends...WITH George Graham's Arsenal team?? Why are we doing this? Because of Geronimo's post. He's probably pissing himself...he knows what we're like. He's Tottenham after all. I think he's on a wind-up which is actually working pretty well as I'm typing this last full stop.

I didn't think I was making a comparison. I thought I was saying that a comparison seems extraordinarily inapt, which, I presume, is why the general reaction was to scorn his post.
At the same time, I have never come across this Geronimo fella (well, only in his previous guise as a NAM scoundreless type), so I can't really say if his is WUMMING. Just that he seemed somewhat put out that his opinion, or feeling, was being scorned. So, I thought I would try to clarify why he would say something that so many serious SCers seemingly found so outlandish...otherwise he might burn half of Texas and scalp some poor bugger

 

[StartingPrice]

From what i heard on the wireless Capoue was almost omnipresent in the first half, and really getting stuck in too. I'm intrigued now as i'd not heard of the lad before he joined us but is he as promising as he sounds?

He was. I was very impressed with his cameo against Palace. Just so against Tiblisi. I think that what makes it msot exciting is not that he was outright better than any of our other new signings, but that he was more out-of-the-blue, and relatively cheap. Looks to be buy of the Summer, so far...and not just for us.

 

[eViL]

People keep asking why we're buying so many midfielders..

If they all run and tackle as hard as they have the last 2 matches, rotation will be essential.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Erm, where did I mention "argument"?

You quoted yourself [ahem] and said no one had a 'valid counter-argument'. You can't have a counter-argument unless you put forward an argument to start with. You didn't make one.

I posted an opinion, which, I humbly believe I am entitled to.

I have posted on numerous occasions that people who state 'I have a right to my opinion' are basically confirming that they don't understand what an 'opinion' is and how it differs from discourse. Opinions are not created equal and having a right to an opinion does not suggest that your opinion is worth the time it took to post it. In this case, your opinion was very badly thought out, inferior and lacking in content.

Merely stating an opinion, intelligent or otherwise, is not an achievement, it's a form of public masturbation. You have to support your opinion with an argument. Especially if you're then going to have the bloody cheek to accuse others of not having a 'valid counter-argument' to the argument you haven't bothered to make.

This place is constantly littered with thousands of people's opinions, usually one line long. I never share my opinion unless I can include an argument to back it up. Much of the time, I don't actually post an opinion at all, I just post facts or stats or correct people's bad memories.

Opinions are overrated. When it comes to opinions, I STFU until I actually have something novel to say and then I say it, at whatever length it takes to establish the argument that backs up my opinion.

 

[micpin]

Very impressed with the midfield today. Sat next to a friend and he said 'they are hunting like a pack' He was spot on. Capoue could be the signing of the season.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

As with many others, I've been astonished and impressed with Capoue's and Paulinho's ability to grind up (and thus grind down) opposing midfields. They just keep nicking the ball, over and over again, and the other side can't get anything started.

Our difficulty today, for much of the first half, was that we kept giving the ball back as soon as we'd won it. We couldn't keep it for long enough to exert any sustained pressure. At the start of the second half, there was evidence that AVB had said something to that effect, because that's exactly what we did and, after about 15 minutes of that kind of pressure against a pretty decent team, we finally got a reward in the form of a penalty.

What was disappointing was that, immediately after we scored, Capoue and Paulinho, for whatever reason, be it tiredness, satisfaction or inattention, stopped doing it and suddenly Swansea had some room to breathe for the first time in the whole match. Then they put on Pozuelo for Routledge, which increased their penetration, and took off the somewhat klutz-like Shelvey in favour of a second striker. Now, one would think that removing a midfielder would have made Capoue's and Paulinho'sjob easier, but it didn't happen that way. We stood off and left them space where previously there had been suffocation.

I'm trying to work out why we did that immediately after we secured a one goal lead. I hope we don't do it again.

For all of our domination of midfield, if we play like that at the Emirates, we won't keep a clean sheet and we won't win the match.