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The UEFA Nations League

rossdapep

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
22,154
79,695
Timberwolf said:
Can't believe Germany didn't sack Low after their shocking World Cup. It was clearly the end of the road for him but they just couldn't bring themselves to sack a World Cup winning coach. IIRC they've been underperforming ever since then too, especially given the talent in their squad.

Now they have no choice but to go into a tournament with a dud for a coach, or sack him now and give his replacement no time to develop a team.
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I recall they had issues in the squad with certain players and had poor preparation in that WC too? Also Loew refused to adapt strategy and personnel despite their poor form leading up to the tournament and in the tournament. A lot of sideways passing and not a lot else. Mexico and South Korea both suckerpunched them and Sweden almost did the same.

I don't think Loew is a particularly great coach anyway. I am leaving myself open to ridicule here but I saw them live vs Ghana in WC2014 and I thought they were very average. I also didn't think they were particularly great throughout that tournament other than the destruction of Brazil, which they laid a very clever trap for, and they had the luck in the final (Higuains miss, Neuers almost decapitation).

Good to see them taking a big beating tonight.
 
J

JCRD

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2018
19,153
30,013
I bloody hate international breaks with a passion and even moreso in a pandemic.. three internationals in six days is nonsensical.
 
C0YS

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
rossdapep said:
I recall they had issues in the squad with certain players and had poor preparation in that WC too? Also Loew refused to adapt strategy and personnel despite their poor form leading up to the tournament and in the tournament. A lot of sideways passing and not a lot else. Mexico and South Korea both suckerpunched them and Sweden almost did the same.

I don't think Loew is a particularly great coach anyway. I am leaving myself open to ridicule here but I saw them live vs Ghana in WC2014 and I thought they were very average. I also didn't think they were particularly great throughout that tournament other than the destruction of Brazil, which they laid a very clever trap for, and they had the luck in the final (Higuains miss, Neuers almost decapitation).

Good to see them taking a big beating tonight.
Click to expand...
Even ignoring brazil, they won the world cup, and they fully deserved it. They drew against Ghana, and that was a good match, but Ghana are a competitive team that had made the knockouts the two previous tournaments. It wasn't just Brazil, 4-0 against Portugal. and beat France and brazil on the way to the final. The final itself was closely fought, and Argentina (who were genuinely pretty stodgy throughout the tournament) probably edged it. But take any world cup winners and you will not see any team great throughout and without luck. It's a world cup.

Loew has done a fantastic job, They outperformed expectations in 2008 and 2010, each time narrowly beaten by a once in a generation Spain team and won the world cup. Largely playing very good football. His problem is that being a manager for a team for 14 years now takes a toll on you. The freshness goes and it can become too comfortable and not innovative. It doesn't matter how good you are, teams get stagnant and managerial changes can refresh that.

One bad tournament is just one bad tournament, being knocked out in the group stage the year after winning a world cup is a tradition. Four of the last five world cup winners have failed to get out of the group stage the next tournament. The world cup is hard guys! I don't think he had poor preparation, they won every game in the group stage and won the confederations cup. World cup warm ups are more for experimentation than results and tend to be an unreliable indicator of how teams do in the actual tournament.

I think though, he should have left after the world cup, as that's the peak really, it's hard to keep motivation in the team and you up after winning a world cup. The next problem is he decided to freeze out key players from the team, including Muller, who is probably the best German player right now. I mean, he's trying to refresh the team, but it was an extreme action, with players with still a lot of years to give.

In any case, one result, against a Spain team capable of these sort of things, isn't the end of the world. They've generally done alright in the nations league, that was their first defeat. With big defeats like this, there always tends to be an overreaction. We saw it with Liverpool the other week. But when England beat Germany 5-1 in 2001 for Voller it might have appeared the end of days, but they come into the 2002 world cup and end up finalists against most peoples expectations. So even though I think it's time for loew to call it a day, having nothing left to prove at that level and needing to freshen things up, I think he's done a fantastic job, and even now, it's not awful.
 
Last edited:
Timberwolf

Timberwolf

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2008
10,328
50,217
C0YS said:
Even ignoring brazil, they won the world cup, and they fully deserved it. They drew against Ghana, and that was a good match, but Ghana are a competitive team that had made the knockouts the two previous tournaments. It wasn't just Brazil, 4-0 against Portugal. and beat France and brazil on the way to the final. The final itself was closely fought, and Argentina (who were genuinely pretty stodgy throughout the tournament) probably edged it. But take any world cup winners and you will not see any team great throughout and without luck. It's a world cup.

Loew has done a fantastic job, They outperformed expectations in 2008 and 2010, each time narrowly beaten by a once in a generation Spain team and won the world cup. Largely playing very good football. His problem is that being a manager for a team for 14 years now takes a toll on you. The freshness goes and it can become too comfortable and not innovative. It doesn't matter how good you are, teams get stagnant and managerial changes can refresh that.

One bad tournament is just one bad tournament, being knocked out in the group stage the year after winning a world cup is a tradition. Four of the last five world cup winners have failed to get out of the group stage the next tournament. The world cup is hard guys! I don't think he had poor preparation, they won every game in the group stage and won the confederations cup. World cup warm ups are more for experimentation than results and tend to be an unreliable indicator of how teams do in the actual tournament.

I think though, he should have left after the world cup, as that's the peak really, it's hard to keep motivation in the team and you up after winning a world cup. The next problem is he decided to freeze out key players from the team, including Muller, who is probably the best German player right now. I mean, he's trying to refresh the team, but it was an extreme action, with players with still a lot of years to give.

In any case, one result, against a Spain team capable of these sort of things, isn't the end of the world. They've generally done alright in the nations league, that was their first defeat. With big defeats like this, there always tends to be an overreaction. We saw it with Liverpool the other week. But when England beat Germany 5-1 in 2001 for Voller it might have appeared the end of days, but they come into the 2002 world cup and end up finalists against most peoples expectations. So even though I think it's time for loew to call it a day, having nothing left to prove at that level and needing to freshen things up, I think he's done a fantastic job, and even now, it's not awful.
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I agree with almost everything you say here although I do think they've been underperforming for a while. In the last 2 years they've lost 3-0 to Holland, 2-1 to France, 4-2 to Holland and 6-0 to Spain, along with drawing with Switzerland twice, Turkey, Argentina and Spain. They've only actually beaten one top team in that entire period (Holland 3-2). Not terrible, as you say, but way way below the standards you'd expect of Germany in any era.
 
spursfan77

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,684
104,964
Arsenal lose Kolasinac after he comes down with covid. Yet another one and wont be the last before the weekend.
 
C0YS

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
Timberwolf said:
I agree with almost everything you say here although I do think they've been underperforming for a while. In the last 2 years they've lost 3-0 to Holland, 2-1 to France, 4-2 to Holland and 6-0 to Spain, along with drawing with Switzerland twice, Turkey, Argentina and Spain. They've only actually beaten one top team in that entire period (Holland 3-2). Not terrible, as you say, but way way below the standards you'd expect of Germany in any era.
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They have been underperforming. But it's hardly been catastrophic. there is a big difference between 'not awful' and good! If this was a new manager who'd been signed for the 4 year cycle post world cup, I think, before yesterday, people would be like meehh, it's ok. Thing is Loew probably benefits from having such success, as people know that results like these do not reflect the length of his work.

They are underperforming, they are stagnant and they need fresh ideas. Germany are also much weaker than in 2012 - 2016ish time. Which was their peak, and a lot of the hyped young players never really developed into what was expected of them. The current side is about the same as England, Good but not top teir. Mind, only France are top teir in Europe these days, possibly the world, and even they have weaknesses.

I think the European top teams look somewhat like this these days.
Teir 1: France
Teir 2: Spain, Belgium
Teir 3: Germany, Portugal, England
Teir 4: Netherlands, Italy, Croatia.

You could argue that Portugal are a level above (maybe even swap with belgium), and maybe the same with the Netherlands. Croatia are not the team they were in 2018 and arguably shouldn't even be in this list. But a strong world cup helps.
 
J

JCRD

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2018
19,153
30,013
Fucking **** playing Kane

Kane best play first half only... get a hattrick and move on
 
Marty

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
40,175
63,901
Anyone heard of any of these guys? Norway's Mighty Ducks of 2020 to take on Austria. Even having lived here 12 years there are names I struggle with!

 
RickyVilla

RickyVilla

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2004
18,489
19,954
Denmark equalised against the Belgians. Would be hairy lairy arse if we win this group. Like 92 all over again. :unsure: :LOL:
 
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