The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

[danielneeds]

But whilst that may be the case, they still incentivise loan deals. I think it's something we have to look at.

I've no idea how our loans deals are structured, and it does sound a good idea to incentivise the loans to play, although I could imagine that in lower league clubs in England if it came out in the dressing room that a youngster was being played because it was cheaper for the club, the senior pros would give him a load of stick.

 

[mpickard2087]

I've no idea how our loans deals are structured, and it does sound a good idea to incentivise the loans to play, although I could imagine that in lower league clubs in England if it came out in the dressing room that a youngster was being played because it was cheaper for the club, the senior pros would give him a load of stick.

They might get stick anyway from miffed lower league players, as clubs should be taking our loan players because they have intentions of them being key players for them who play pretty much every week. Otherwise I don't see the point. Incentivising loans mean you can then hammer clubs who don't play our players - fine by me.

 

[danielneeds]

They might get stick anyway from miffed lower league players, as clubs should be taking our loan players because they have intentions of them being key players for them who play pretty much every week. Otherwise I don't see the point. Incentivising loans mean you can then hammer clubs who don't play our players - fine by me.

It;'s all very well if the clubs can afford those penalties. But if you're dealing with skint clubs who need loan players, they'll just say it's too much risk.

 

[mpickard2087]

It;'s all very well if the clubs can afford those penalties. But if you're dealing with skint clubs who need loan players, they'll just say it's too much risk.

Fine, then don't loan them, they obviously don't rate our players that highly nor want to make them a central part of the team. If they played them, there wouldn't be a problem in this scenario.

 

[danielneeds]

Fine, then don't loan them, they obviously don't rate our players that highly nor want to make them a central part of the team. If they played them, there wouldn't be a problem in this scenario.

It's not as simple as that though, is it? You can scout a youngster, and see how well he can pass, or run, but you can tell how he will adapt to lower league professional football, or a men's dressing room, the pressure of scrapping for points. Will a manger play him when his job's on the line. It's really a complex thing.

 

[mpickard2087]

It's not as simple as that though, is it? You can scout a youngster, and see how well he can pass, or run, but you can tell how he will adapt to lower league professional football, or a men's dressing room, the pressure of scrapping for points. Will a manger play him when his job's on the line. It's really a complex thing.

Put break clauses in then. Three months/Winter transfer window etc. Sorted. They should want these players to play, and back/use their ability (providing they have any.....) as coaches to improve them.

 

[C0YS]

They might get stick anyway from miffed lower league players, as clubs should be taking our loan players because they have intentions of them being key players for them who play pretty much every week. Otherwise I don't see the point. Incentivising loans mean you can then hammer clubs who don't play our players - fine by me.

The thing is sometimes needing to fight to play can be a positive thing for development. Loans can help (or destroy) players in more than just game time, its about being in a competitive setting and all that comes with it. Namely competition for places, having to adapt to the managers demands rather than having choices made for you on the basis of your development and all of that. A bit of struggle can be good as long as its fair.

Onamah did perfectly fine at Villa, people act as if it was a disaster, but he actually got a lot of game time and was trusted to contribute in big matches. But mainly, I have issues with peoples expectation of loans. There are plenty of players who had massively successful loan but have been going backwards ever since (like Caulker, Dervite, Bamford) and plenty who did 'badly' and made it to the top.

Development is not the same thing as playing well for a team. It's a longer process that is not normally linear. The the best youth team prospects do not always make the best professional players, the same applies to players. What most people call a 'successful' loan is really only clearly a success for the loaning club. We are likely to know the players qualities and abilities already. Sure, it does suggest the player is able to function well with the pressures of competitive football, but what matters more is how they deal and grow from the situations they found themselves out on loan. Thats not always visible.

 

[mpickard2087]

The thing is sometimes needing to fight to play can be a positive thing for development. Loans can help (or destroy) players in more than just game time, its about being in a competitive setting and all that comes with it. Namely competition for places, having to adapt to the managers demands rather than having choices made for you on the basis of your development and all of that. A bit of struggle can be good as long as its fair.

Onamah did perfectly fine at Villa, people act as if it was a disaster, but he actually got a lot of game time and was trusted to contribute in big matches. But mainly, I have issues with peoples expectation of loans. There are plenty of players who had massively successful loan but have been going backwards ever since (like Caulker, Dervite, Bamford) and plenty who did 'badly' and made it to the top.

Development is not the same thing as playing well for a team. It's a longer process that is not normally linear. The the best youth team prospects do not always make the best professional players, the same applies to players. What most people call a 'successful' loan is really only clearly a success for the loaning club. We are likely to know the players qualities and abilities already. Sure, it does suggest the player is able to function well with the pressures of competitive football, but what matters more is how they deal and grow from the situations they found themselves out on loan. Thats not always visible.

If they need an experience of fighting to play (or even make the squad....) what bigger one than keeping them in house around the first team trying to get a look in?

For me its simple, you loan players out to play and get as many minutes as possible. If a club wants to take them they should have the intention of them being important members of the squad, not sat on the bench or in the stands or making up the numbers. Now I didn't mention them doing well or not, they might have good games, they might have shit games from time to time and struggle, they might find themselves at teams whose football doesn't really suit their style of play, but they learn out on the pitch as to what they can/cant get away with in adult football and how to deal with setbacks and things not going there own way and growing as footballers. I'm as fond of over-analysing subjects as much as anyone, but some of the wider 'building character' arguments are a load of guff in my opinion and wishful thinking to explain away bad loans.

 

[edson]

For Fans of Sterling.

https://www.safc.com/news/team-news/2019/february/sterling-first-interview

 

[Anuth]

Sterling on the bench!!

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Poch likes Workhorses over Skill for his CM positions

Simple as that

I think it's more accurate to say he wants work and skill. Skill without the work won't wash.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Eriksen drops into midfield because otherwise the defense and attack are often disjointed, imo.

This season in particular where eriksen is playing deeper is due to the diamond system that poch is often using. Its more or less been a midfield 3 of eriksen left winks middle and sissokko right, which also brought out the best in Sissoko as he is really a 3 man midfield player and maybe struggles a bit in a 2 though probably more used to 433 the diamond has similar traits. Eriksen isn't dropping deeper, he is playing deeper.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Winks whilst smaller, is a more physically strong player

Poch prefers workrate and physical players in CM, its clear imo. Veljkovic was a very good DM and didnt even get a look

Also Dembele whilst a ballet dancer is a fucking beast of a DM, Im not saying Poch likes pure workhorse with no skill. Im saying he prefers workrate and physically strong/quick players over skilful players. Dembele happens to be both

Veljokic was a very static midfielder and one faceted. We never confirmed he was a very good DM as he never really played in first team. I believe poch wants multi facet player, work and skill and be able to adopt differing positions. For example in pochs diamond eriksen has found himself in a left back role at times and Sissoko at right back. Even when we had wanyama dembele duet, wanyama surprised us all with his forward passing and runs. He wasn't our DM although he was. But he was more.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Update on Nathan Oduwa.

His contract at Olimpija Ljubljana was terminated by mutual consent last summer, and he went to Vejle Boldklub who play in the top Danish division (were promoted last season) last September. He barely played for them, and seems to have been more in the reserve team. His contract at Vejle Boldklub was mutually terminated a few months later in December, and a few days ago he signed for Hapoel Hadera who are sixth in the Israeli top division.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Sterling on the bench!!

Sterling on the pitch
On after an hour

 

[danielneeds]

Update on Nathan Oduwa.

His contract at Olimpija Ljubljana was terminated by mutual consent last summer, and he went to Vejle Boldklub who play in the top Danish division (were promoted last season) last September. He barely played for them, and seems to have been more in the reserve team. His contract at Vejle Boldklub was mutually terminated a few months later in December, and a few days ago he signed for Hapoel Hadera who are sixth in the Israeli top division.

Blimey he’s aiming for Rohan Ricketts levels of globetrotting.

 

[RichieS]

Ruben Lameiras with Plymouth's winner at Peterborough today. Seventh goal in his last seven appearances apparently.

 

[Locotoro]

Ogilvie played again for Gillingham.
nkoudou got off the bench for 20min a Monaco win,
CCV started for Swansea.
Onomah came on for 30 mins for the win.

 

[Anuth]

Some Sunderland fans' opinion on Sterlin debut

https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/kazaiah-sterling.1460823/

 

[dickieven]

Some Sunderland fans' opinion on Sterlin debut

https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/kazaiah-sterling.1460823/

Bloody hell that thread goes off topic as much as some of ours do!

I think it is a great opportunity for him there. They are pushing for promotion and maybe the League 1 title. If he gets some game time then he will get to play under pressure in front of decent sized crowds. Will be great for him, I hope.