The Spurs Youth Thread – 2016/2017

[Krafty]

He looks to be getting a bit stronger and fitter, and I was pleased to see he can strike a ball well with his shot that was deflected for a corner.

But like others, just can't see he has the game for an AM role. Perhaps Poch wants him to be physically more imposing before playing him in the Dembele role, and if that is the case then fine, but something needs to change because playing as an AM or wide AM just isn't helping him progress.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I agree with u that at his lowest performance level he's no worse then sissoko, alli and son, and that's a credit as I previously mentioned to his technical ablity. But Wycombe's first goal was an prime example of how his lack of conviction hurts his play in both boxes. And that's the difference bt him and alli and son they move and play with belief and with a goal in mind, which causes them to seek out chances, which leads eventually to goals. Sissoko I don't understand his signing he'll never give us that ability in the final third, so he'll never be anything more than useful.
But that's what Josh needs to work on he won't be able to perform at his best until he becomes comfortable on the pitch and show real intent.

I also agree to an extent that playing in this heavily rotated side isn't ideal, but it's still no excuse for his poor, academic,anemic general play. Harry winks' example shows what can and needs to be done to earn those meaningful minutes in the league. Winks showed intelligent purposeful play in the same type of sides and once again today. It's a tough ask but it's something that Josh needs to do to rise to the challenge of playing in this sort of side.

I don't like digging out youth players, but not recognizing that he has a lot to improve upon is just naive. And comparing him to the poor standards of some of our senior players is no excuse to the basic fact that he needs to improve his approach to how he plays his game to reach his potential.

I just don't agree or accept some of your views or assessment. The first goal was exactly the opposite of him showing a lack of conviction, it was him straining to get something on a cross, showing conviction, just shit luck that it cleared straight to their guy who'll never hit a sweeter volley.

Alli and Son get away with playing some lazy, careless and atrocious football because they gild it with the odd goal, Onomah is far more about what happens before that stage than those two, thus showing conviction in the box is not what he will shine at and not what we should be judging him by.

Again Winks is a different animal, he's more the Herrera to Onamah's Pogba. Far easier for him to assimilate his skill set. He's busy, neat and tidy. He'll never let you down for industry but he'll never sell for 100m either.

It's the use of words like "poor concentration, poor anticipation, half arsed, lack of conviction" etc that are just plain wrong. I think a slightly languid demeanour is often misconstrued in his case, the first couple of times I watched him I made the same false assumption, but what I quickly realised was that his non flappable demeanour was actually Part of what makes him the player he is, a player who is capable of things that players like Winks aren't.

It's not about "not recognising" that he has to improve, it's about not mistaking a player being put in a position to fail for one not trying to succeed.

 

[Sweech]

I just don't agree or accept some of your views or assessment. The first goal was exactly the opposite of him showing a lack of conviction, it was him straining to get something on a cross, showing conviction, just shit luck that it cleared straight to their guy who'll never hit a sweeter volley.

Alli and Son get away with playing some lazy, careless and atrocious football because they gild it with the odd goal, Onomah is far more about what happens before that stage than those two, thus showing conviction in the box is not what he will shine at and not what we should be judging him by.

Again Winks is a different animal, he's more the Herrera to Onamah's Pogba. Far easier for him to assimilate his skill set. He's busy, neat and tidy. He'll never let you down for industry but he'll never sell for 100m either.

It's the use of words like "poor concentration, poor anticipation, half arsed, lack of conviction" etc that are just plain wrong. I think a slightly languid demeanour is often misconstrued in his case, the first couple of times I watched him I made the same false assumption, but what I quickly realised was that his non flappable demeanour was actually Part of what makes him the player he is, a player who is capable of things that players like Winks aren't.

It's not about "not recognising" that he has to improve, it's about not mistaking a player being put in a position to fail for one not trying to succeed.

Unfortunately he's showing less than those two in that area though and even far less of a goal threat. Son and Alli have been much more influential in the build up than Onomah has been in nearly every match and as you say that's not even their strong suit.

 

[IGSpur]

It's the use of words like "poor concentration, poor anticipation, half arsed, lack of conviction" etc that are just plain wrong. I think a slightly languid demeanour is often misconstrued in his case, the first couple of times I watched him I made the same false assumption, but what I quickly realised was that his non flappable demeanour was actually Part of what makes him the player he is, a player who is capable of things that players like Winks aren't.

I take no joy in saying I predicted that this would be the reason he would get very little time and criticism from the fans. That was probably 2 years ago. Always played the same and he is class, just that when things aren't going around players can buy time or rope length if they buzz around and look busy. Unfortunately that will never be the case with Onomah and so his weaknesses or poor performances are magnified. The Pogba/Herrera comparison is great btw

 

[coy-spurs1882]

puts him in the wings in which he cannot play comfortably, destroys his confidence completely and finally its his fault for not progressing? if onomah leaves the club in this way poch should take the blame

 

[allpaths]

I just don't agree or accept some of your views or assessment. The first goal was exactly the opposite of him showing a lack of conviction, it was him straining to get something on a cross, showing conviction, just shit luck that it cleared straight to their guy who'll never hit a sweeter volley.

Alli and Son get away with playing some lazy, careless and atrocious football because they gild it with the odd goal, Onomah is far more about what happens before that stage than those two, thus showing conviction in the box is not what he will shine at and not what we should be judging him by.

Again Winks is a different animal, he's more the Herrera to Onamah's Pogba. Far easier for him to assimilate his skill set. He's busy, neat and tidy. He'll never let you down for industry but he'll never sell for 100m either.

It's the use of words like "poor concentration, poor anticipation, half arsed, lack of conviction" etc that are just plain wrong. I think a slightly languid demeanour is often misconstrued in his case, the first couple of times I watched him I made the same false assumption, but what I quickly realised was that his non flappable demeanour was actually Part of what makes him the player he is, a player who is capable of things that players like Winks aren't.

It's not about "not recognising" that he has to improve, it's about not mistaking a player being put in a position to fail for one not trying to succeed.

Well this is where we really differ I know this is all opinion based so is all subjective, on the goal to me onomah has to do a lot better. He doesn't have to stretch or anything the ball comes right to him and it seems like vorm tries to give a call that he's going to claim the ball, which causes a slight indecision on Josh's part, then he panics and makes a mess of his clearances which keeps the ball alive for the wycombe player to take his chance very well. He's unlucky but those r the type of mistakes that get punished at the level spurs play.

With you're point about Alli and Son, you really missed my point. They play some bad general link up play just like any footballer, but it's there mental strength that then allows to keep trying and working to seek out chances which separate them with Onomah who makes a mistake and then hides and plays it safe instead of using the possession with purpose. Also to say that Alli and Son are lazy are very off the mark and just a complete bunch of shit. They are always moving off the ball probing and searching for space to exploit to get themselves into good goal scoring opportunities. As well they both do their job in the press and defensively.

I think we should be judging him on his conviction in the box, its a major part of anyone's game and I feel is one of the biggest reasons he is played in attacking midfield role. To cultivate the feeling and know how to score goals, the composure it takes, the movement needed and the vision to see the killer pass ect. We all know how commanding Josh is in the middle of the park, he will give a great platform to play from just like dembele does now and that alone will take him to the top. But to become an unbelievable world class player he needs to add the spark and bit of magic to his play in the final third. Some do it by being a goal threat like Alli, some by raking up assists like Eriksen or he could even play like modric and play the hockey assists, the pass to assist the assist. Ideally he could do all three, but right he cant do any and it is concerning.

Comparing him to winks is suppose to highlight that a) he can and should do a lot better in the sides he put in and b) that they are both different types of players with different needs to development properly. That youth with strong mentalities dont need to go out on loan because they dont need the experience to sharpen them up like players like Josh do.

Your second last point is complete opinion, but it's of mine that both winks and onomah are special players with the potential to go on and have stunning careers. And if you think I have a problem with his languid style you are completely wrong. I have a problem with his inability to either make a meaningful run or any kind of movement to find space to exploit, which is especially frustrating when there is space available but because he doesn't have the ability to anticipate and attack the space he is always a step behind, or when he has been in possession and all he manages to do is keep a hold of possession and play backwards. I know u cant be passing forward all the time, but every once in a while i'd like to see him mix it up and actually try to accomplish something on the ball. Know i also dont expect him to turn into this wonderful wide player, i know he hasnt been given any favours being played out of position, but i do expect him to learn from his mistakes and to apply it to better effect for the next game. But he hasnt got any better at anything and he needs to shoulder some of the blame for his own underwhelming performances.

 

[allpaths]

Well this is where we really differ I know this is all opinion based so is all subjective, on the goal to me onomah has to do a lot better. He doesn't have to stretch or anything the ball comes right to him and it seems like vorm tries to give a call that he's going to claim the ball, which causes a slight indecision on Josh's part, then he panics and makes a mess of his clearances which keeps the ball alive for the wycombe player to take his chance very well. He's unlucky but those r the type of mistakes that get punished at the level spurs play.

With you're point about Alli and Son, you really missed my point. They play some bad general link up play just like any footballer, but it's there mental strength that allows to keep trying and working to seek out chances which separate them with Onomah who makes a mistake and then hides and plays it safe instead of using the possession with purpose. Also to say that Alli and Son are lazy are very off the mark and just a complete bunch of shit. They are always moving off the ball probing and searching for space to exploit to get themselves into good goal scoring opportunities. As well they both do their job in the press and defensively.

I think we should be judging him on his conviction in the box, its a major part of anyone's game and I feel is one of the biggest reasons he is played in attacking midfield role. To cultivate the feeling and know how to score goals, the composure it takes, the movement needed and the vision to see the killer pass ect. We all know how commanding Josh is in the middle of the park, he will give a great platform to play from just like dembele does now and that alone will take him to the top. But to become an unbelievable world class player he needs to add the spark and bit of magic to his play in the final third. Some do it by being a goal threat like Alli, some by raking up assists like Eriksen or he could even play like modric and play the hockey assists, the pass to assist the assist. Ideally he could do all three, but right he cant do any and it is concerning.

Comparing him to winks is suppose to highlight that a) he can and should do a lot better in the sides he put in and b) that they are both different types of players with different needs to development properly. That youth with strong mentalities dont need to go out on loan because they dont need the experience to sharpen them up like players like Josh do.

Your second last point is complete opinion, but it's of mine that both winks and onomah are special players with the potential to go on and have stunning careers. And if you think I have a problem with his languid style you are completely wrong. I have a problem with his inability to either make a meaningful run or any kind of movement to find space to exploit, which is especially frustrating when there is space available but because he doesn't have the ability to anticipate and attack the space he is always a step behind, or when he has been in possession and all he manages to do is keep a hold of possession and play backwards. I know u cant be passing forward all the time, but every once in a while i'd like to see him mix it up and actually try to accomplish something on the ball. Know i also dont expect him to turn into this wonderful wide player, i know he hasnt been given any favours being played out of position, but i do expect him to learn from his mistakes and to apply it to better effect for the next game. But he hasnt got any better at anything and he needs to shoulder some of the blame for his own underwhelming performances.

reading back over this i dont even come close to putting in this much effort for my university work. I think i may have a serious problem. :dead::dead:

 

[CornerPinDreamer]

you guys are way more intelligent than me in analysis.. i just keep on seeing Onomah not showing for the ball enough, not moving towards positions and demanding it.. he seems to have a lot of nous in some of the passes and movement with the ball, but not that

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Unfortunately he's showing less than those two in that area though and even far less of a goal threat. Son and Alli have been much more influential in the build up than Onomah has been in nearly every match and as you say that's not even their strong suit.

Think about 85% of Alli's games where he's been played as an AM. He's absolutely stunk the place out. The first three months of this season he was awful. Wasting possession, putting us under pressure trying inappropriate tricks, giving the ball away more than other player, and not scoring goals either. The last month or so Alli's hit form, and been very good, and scoring, but lets not pretend his "team play" has been great for much of his time with us. Even last season there were so many games where for 60 minutes people were calling him to be subbed only for him to put up with a goal and kind of cancel out the memory of what had gone before in games.

Son is just as bad, I remember watching games where he couldn't even make a fucking three yard pass under no pressure without fucking it up. But like Alli, he's got a good knack of scoring. Both players, especially Alli have that knack, and it's bloody great, and not to be undervalued, and I don't, but lets not pretend that the pair of them don't go through spells where their team play is atrocious, because both of them have, and Son in particular is fucking pointless most of the time, unless he's scoring, as his lack of composure is woeful.

When judging Onomah's game play lets bare in mind the kids never had what Alli and Son have had, which is a consistent run of games and the tolerance during that time of their continual mistakes. He's had 141 minutes of ad hoc PL minutes scattered over two seasons, none of them as a CM. How can we judge him based on that ?

Even then, I don't see a kid making a fool of himself or looking horribly out of his depth. He just hasn't done anything stupendous.

 

[danielneeds]

Think about 85% of Alli's games where he's been played as an AM. He's absolutely stunk the place out. The first three months of this season he was awful. Wasting possession, putting us under pressure trying inappropriate tricks, giving the ball away more than other player, and not scoring goals either. The last month or so Alli's hit form, and been very good, and scoring, but lets not pretend his "team play" has been great for much of his time with us. Even last season there were so many games where for 60 minutes people were calling him to be subbed only for him to put up with a goal and kind of cancel out the memory of what had gone before in games.

Son is just as bad, I remember watching games where he couldn't even make a fucking three yard pass under no pressure without fucking it up. But like Alli, he's got a good knack of scoring. Both players, especially Alli have that knack, and it's bloody great, and not to be undervalued, and I don't, but lets not pretend that the pair of them don't go through spells where their team play is atrocious, because both of them have, and Son in particular is fucking pointless most of the time, unless he's scoring, as his lack of composure is woeful.

When judging Onomah's game play lets bare in mind the kids never had what Alli and Son have had, which is a consistent run of games and the tolerance during that time of their continual mistakes. He's had 141 minutes of ad hoc PL minutes scattered over two seasons, none of them as a CM. How can we judge him based on that ?

Even then, I don't see a kid making a fool of himself or looking horribly out of his depth. He just hasn't done anything stupendous.

Can you prove that?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Can you prove that?

Just check the stinkometre on whoscored.com.

 

[danielneeds]

Just check the stinkometre on whoscored.com.

I will only acknowledge Opta stink readings...

 

[AdamYoung]

I noticed on Twitter Kenny Jackett has been appointed to the Academy staff. Interesting appointment, anyone interested in a bit of background on him I would highly recommend reading Family: Life, death and Football by Michael Calvin. It follows a year with Millwall when Jackett is boss, certainly seems like an excellent man manager.

 

[Hercules]

I noticed on Twitter Kenny Jackett has been appointed to the Academy staff. Interesting appointment, anyone interested in a bit of background on him I would highly recommend reading Family: Life, death and Football by Michael Calvin. It follows a year with Millwall when Jackett is boss, certainly seems like an excellent man manager.

I know an ex pro who played for England, whom praised Kenny for him even making it as far as he did in football. He was then youth coach at Watford.

 

[Spurzinho]

It's an interesting appointment, re - Jackett. His reputation is for strong man management, player development and highly structured football. The first two make a lot of sense but the last one may cause a few problems. We play with a lot of fluidity and interchange. Everyone is expected to be able to contribute to every phase of play. Players drop in and out of zones and there's tons of off the ball movement. Jackett isn't the first name that comes to mind when I think of that but I'm very interested to see how he gets on. The lads will know who's boss that's for sure.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Gawd knows why Onomah is being singled out at mo. He's a kid in development struggling to come to terms with the pace of pro football, but that doesn't mean he won't with a bit of patience and hard work.

 

[WindyCOYS]

Re-watched the game today and Onomah was nowhere near as bad as the criticism on social media would have you believe. However, there were times when the game was passing him by and he needed to get more involved.

One thing that did impress me was the fact that he selflessly made runs to take defenders away a few times - I've not seen that from him before.

 

[allpaths]

Re-watched the game today and Onomah was nowhere near as bad as the criticism on social media would have you believe. However, there were times when the game was passing him by and he needed to get more involved.

One thing that did impress me was the fact that he selflessly made runs to take defenders away a few times - I've not seen that from him before.

Fantastic catch, that's encouraging if he's able to build on it and if it leads to some more intelligent movement.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Just caught my first glimpse at Ryan Sessegnon. It was only MOTD highlights, so I still have no idea about his all round game, or defending etc. but attacking wise, if today's highlights are representative of what he's producing regularly, he's already better offensively than many LB's playing PL now, and his technique and composure under pressure in forward areas was as good as any LB I've seen lately. Looks a real hot prospect. Can't see him being at Fulham much longer. How much were Manchester clubs going to give us for Rose ?

 

[THFCSPURS19]

How much were Manchester clubs going to give us for Rose ?

What the actual fuck?