The Rugby Thread

[talkshowhost86]

So turns out I wasn't as wrong as it initially seemed about Leigh Halfpenny....

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wasps-rule-out-signing-leigh-13372517

I thought I'd read somewhere that Toulon weren't that keen on keeping him and it appears to have come to pass...and now nobody seems to want him.

Having said that, seems like it's more to do with his wages than anything else. He was on a rumoured £600k at Toulon, and regardless of your views on how good he is, I don't think anyone would argue he's worth that at the moment so if he keeps asking for that he'll be clubless come the start of the season.

To be honest I'm not really sure why Wasps were even considering him. They play exciting attacking rugby which really isn't Halfpenny's strength, although I suppose the argument is that if he's defensively solid then he lets everyone else do their thing.

Anyway...I suspect he'll end up back in Wales on a significantly reduced contract. Maybe at the newly WRU-run Dragons?

 

[E17yid]

So turns out I wasn't as wrong as it initially seemed about Leigh Halfpenny....

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wasps-rule-out-signing-leigh-13372517

I thought I'd read somewhere that Toulon weren't that keen on keeping him and it appears to have come to pass...and now nobody seems to want him.

Having said that, seems like it's more to do with his wages than anything else. He was on a rumoured £600k at Toulon, and regardless of your views on how good he is, I don't think anyone would argue he's worth that at the moment so if he keeps asking for that he'll be clubless come the start of the season.

To be honest I'm not really sure why Wasps were even considering him. They play exciting attacking rugby which really isn't Halfpenny's strength, although I suppose the argument is that if he's defensively solid then he lets everyone else do their thing.

Anyway...I suspect he'll end up back in Wales on a significantly reduced contract. Maybe at the newly WRU-run Dragons?

I think you were wrong about Halfpenny. You didn't even know who he played for.

It's obviously all to do with wages. No one wants to take some massive pay cut and that's why he won't go back to Wales though I'd love to see him at Ospreys as he's a Neath boy, pretty much.

He can be more attacking, this is such a myth. Scored 5 tries last season and I'm sure, considering what a great all round player he is, that he can adapt to whatever system and will do whatever any coach asks of him.

He'll end up in the Avila in a big money move but I'd love the Ospreys to take that extra £500k pa and give it to Leigh.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I think you were wrong about Halfpenny. You didn't even know who he played for.

It's obviously all to do with wages. No one wants to take some massive pay cut and that's why he won't go back to Wales though I'd love to see him at Ospreys as he's a Neath boy, pretty much.

He can be more attacking, this is such a myth. Scored 5 tries last season and I'm sure, considering what a great all round player he is, that he can adapt to whatever system and will do whatever any coach asks of him.

He'll end up in the Avila in a big money move but I'd love the Ospreys to take that extra £500k pa and give it to Leigh.

To be fair I just jumped the gun. I thought he'd already left Toulon when in fact he was just in the process of being dumped

Anyway...he's nowhere near a £600k a year player, and I'm not actually sure how many Premiership clubs really need to spend anywhere near that on a full back at the moment. The problem is that regardless of his qualities (or lack thereof depending on your opinion) you likely lose him for the six nations, and he's had injury issues (although he seems to largely be okay now), so it'll be a brave (or rich) club that takes him on. I actually think another move to a French moneybags club is more likely.

I'm not sure though if, due to 'Gatland's law', he'll continue to get into the Wales team. Quite a few Welsh players now playing outside of Wales (Williams going to Saracens, Biggar going to Northampton next season apparently) so if that law sticks, some decent players are going to have to forego their test spots.

 

[E17yid]

To be fair I just jumped the gun. I thought he'd already left Toulon when in fact he was just in the process of being dumped

Anyway...he's nowhere near a £600k a year player, and I'm not actually sure how many Premiership clubs really need to spend anywhere near that on a full back at the moment. The problem is that regardless of his qualities (or lack thereof depending on your opinion) you likely lose him for the six nations, and he's had injury issues (although he seems to largely be okay now), so it'll be a brave (or rich) club that takes him on. I actually think another move to a French moneybags club is more likely.

I'm not sure though if, due to 'Gatland's law', he'll continue to get into the Wales team. Quite a few Welsh players now playing outside of Wales (Williams going to Saracens, Biggar going to Northampton next season apparently) so if that law sticks, some decent players are going to have to forego their test spots.

Bath seems to be an option, obviously Watson and Rokadungi (shit spelling I know) on the wings with LH at FB wouldn't be too shabby at all. Faletau is there as well, obviously.

Fuck knows what we'll do re Gatlands law. I'd imagine he'll put it to one side until the WC knowing that he'll be gone after that and let whoever comes in to make the call. Biggar is just paper talk at the moment but like I've said a few times you can't really begrudge them moves that triple/quadruple their wages from the evil English money bags

If Biggar were to leave (which i don't think he will but I certainly wouldn't be surprised seeing as he's 28, in his prime and only has a few years at the top level left) I can't see Gats just picking 3 out of Biggar, North, Faletau, LH, Williams, Moriarty. We'll see I suppose.

Whilst I agree that with the injuries he's had and the fact the Lions tour didn't go great for him that his market value has slightly dropped but he's an elite level player and he, and his agent I'm sure, know he'll still be very much sought after. (Wasps we're obviously very keen as I'm sure others will be)

 

[talkshowhost86]

Bath seems to be an option, obviously Watson and Rokadungi (shit spelling I know) on the wings with LH at FB wouldn't be too shabby at all. Faletau is there as well, obviously.

Fuck knows what we'll do re Gatlands law. I'd imagine he'll put it to one side until the WC knowing that he'll be gone after that and let whoever comes in to make the call. Biggar is just paper talk at the moment but like I've said a few times you can't really begrudge them moves that triple/quadruple their wages from the evil English money bags

If Biggar were to leave (which i don't think he will but I certainly wouldn't be surprised seeing as he's 28, in his prime and only has a few years at the top level left) I can't see Gats just picking 3 out of Biggar, North, Faletau, LH, Williams, Moriarty. We'll see I suppose.

Whilst I agree that with the injuries he's had and the fact the Lions tour didn't go great for him that his market value has slightly dropped but he's an elite level player and he, and his agent I'm sure, know he'll still be very much sought after. (Wasps we're obviously very keen as I'm sure others will be)

Yeah Bath was the name I've seen bandied about as well, but I still think it's a huge amount to pay for a player who you don't even see for half of the season (and I say this as a fan of a team who allegedly signed Jamie Roberts last summer, but basically didn't see him turn up until about March).

But I think if he's holding out for the same money he was getting at Toulon he'll be disappointed. His defensive, kick everything style isn't the way most teams play (he would have suited Saracens a few years back) and whilst it's never a bad thing to have that option...£600k is a lot to pay for just an option.

Generally there isn't much going on in player movement between clubs at the moment. A lot of the big moves (Williams, Ford, Burns etc) were done pre-Lions and it's been very quiet since then.

Not sure if we'll see much more movement, but we haven't seen many coming over from the Southern Hemisphere this time...maybe they'll just be announced later?

 

[E17yid]

TSH, that Biggar things has legs, apparently. £600k pa is what I hear he's been offered though Northampton are happy to wait a year and not buy him out of his contract so he might give us another year.

Rhys Webb's contract is running out as well. He'll be next and they'll be queuing up for him.

I'm to scared to look into how long Tipuric has for left.

 

[talkshowhost86]

TSH, that Biggar things has legs, apparently. £600k pa is what I hear he's been offered though Northampton are happy to wait a year and not buy him out of his contract so he might give us another year.

Rhys Webb's contract is running out as well. He'll be next and they'll be queuing up for him.

I'm to scared to look into how long Tipuric has for left.

I'd heard that Biggar has effectively signed a pre-contract with Northampton so you'll definitely get another year out of him. Will be good to see him in the Premiership (not for you, granted).

I'd love Webb at Quins. Proper mouthy little twerp, but that's seemingly the norm for scrum-halves and I think Danny Care is severely on the decline. Not good when your scrum half buggars off for half the season though.

I don't think Gatland's law is going to hold out for much longer to be honest. The WRU are going to have to be sensible about it or risk ruining the national side.

What I don't understand is how the Irish provinces, bar Connaught, seem to be able to finance keeping their players, but the Welsh sides are seemingly broke. Is it simply because they are all paying Sam Warburton's wages?

 

[E17yid]

I'd heard that Biggar has effectively signed a pre-contract with Northampton so you'll definitely get another year out of him. Will be good to see him in the Premiership (not for you, granted).

I'd love Webb at Quins. Proper mouthy little twerp, but that's seemingly the norm for scrum-halves and I think Danny Care is severely on the decline. Not good when your scrum half buggars off for half the season though.

I don't think Gatland's law is going to hold out for much longer to be honest. The WRU are going to have to be sensible about it or risk ruining the national side.

What I don't understand is how the Irish provinces, bar Connaught, seem to be able to finance keeping their players, but the Welsh sides are seemingly broke. Is it simply because they are all paying Sam Warburton's wages?

I dunno. We're just a poor country at the end of the day.

Biggar is more mouthy than Webb but I see where you're coming from.

Gatland has always had 1 set of rules for players he likes and another for players he's not so keen on so I imagine he'll bin off the 3 player thing. He'll have to as like you say we risk ruining the national side. In the next 3 years we'll have 70-80% of out national side playing in England.

 

[E17yid]

Anyone watch the Super Rugby QTR finals? Some good games. The Sharks almost caused an upset against the Lions but not quite. Looking forward to the Semis this Weekend.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

FYI

Leigh Halfpenny: Wales full-back poised to join Scarlets on dual contract

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40773723

 

[E17yid]

FYI

Leigh Halfpenny: Wales full-back poised to join Scarlets on dual contract

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40773723

He's dead to me

 

[talkshowhost86]

Bit of a kick in the balls for Cardiff that

On this subject I was listening to a podcast today that was questioning whether any Welsh players had actually improved/done well once they've left Wales.

They were unable to come up with any examples, whereas there are lots of examples of players declining for various reasons once they've moved (Halfpenny, North, Faletau, Roberts, Phillips, Davies, Jenkins etc etc). The best one they could think of was Charteris, but he did seem to lose his place in the Welsh team whilst he was away.

Now obviously there are mitigating circumstances for some of those players, but it is interesting that there hasn't really been a success story, certainly in recent times, when the players have left the green grass of home.

The one I was thinking was Moriarty, but I don't actually know where he was before Gloucester (just looked it up...only ever played professionally in England so doesn't really count).

 

[E17yid]

Bit of a kick in the balls for Cardiff that

On this subject I was listening to a podcast today that was questioning whether any Welsh players had actually improved/done well once they've left Wales.

They were unable to come up with any examples, whereas there are lots of examples of players declining for various reasons once they've moved (Halfpenny, North, Faletau, Roberts, Phillips, Davies, Jenkins etc etc). The best one they could think of was Charteris, but he did seem to lose his place in the Welsh team whilst he was away.

Now obviously there are mitigating circumstances for some of those players, but it is interesting that there hasn't really been a success story, certainly in recent times, when the players have left the green grass of home.

The one I was thinking was Moriarty, but I don't actually know where he was before Gloucester (just looked it up...only ever played professionally in England so doesn't really count).

Moriarty has always been at Gloucester, I think. He's only 22/23

I wouldn't say Davies got worse and Faletau has only had 1 injury prone season and had some good games towards the end of the season.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Moriarty has always been at Gloucester, I think. He's only 22/23

I wouldn't say Davies got worse and Faletau has only had 1 injury prone season and had some good games towards the end of the season.

I'm not necessarily saying that any of them have 'got worse' just that they haven't really been able to shine, and often end up coming back to Wales valued less in the game than when they left.

Davies was one they mentioned on the podcast, so I'm going on their knowledge rather than my having watched him for Clermont, but I certainly think his stock has been higher in both of his stints at Scarlets.

And I agree about Faletau, and the same can be said for North with his head injuries, and I'm not saying it's the players' fault that things don't work out. Faletau may be the one that can change that if he gets a run of games, although personally I still think he looks well off his best (certainly in terms of ball carrying) based on the Lions tour and what we know he can do.

It's just interesting that quite a few players have left, and the number seems to be on the up, but it doesn't appear to be doing them much good. I'd be worried if I was Liam Williams!

Actually I'd be doubly worried if I was Liam Williams because he certainly won't be picked at Full Back for Wales for the forseeable future.

 

[E17yid]

I'm not necessarily saying that any of them have 'got worse' just that they haven't really been able to shine, and often end up coming back to Wales valued less in the game than when they left.

Davies was one they mentioned on the podcast, so I'm going on their knowledge rather than my having watched him for Clermont, but I certainly think his stock has been higher in both of his stints at Scarlets.

And I agree about Faletau, and the same can be said for North with his head injuries, and I'm not saying it's the players' fault that things don't work out. Faletau may be the one that can change that if he gets a run of games, although personally I still think he looks well off his best (certainly in terms of ball carrying) based on the Lions tour and what we know he can do.

It's just interesting that quite a few players have left, and the number seems to be on the up, but it doesn't appear to be doing them much good. I'd be worried if I was Liam Williams!

Actually I'd be doubly worried if I was Liam Williams because he certainly won't be picked at Full Back for Wales for the forseeable future.

Yeah, not sure what his record was like for Clermont. All I would say is that you can move, not play your best rugby over 2 years and still improve as a player but I see what you're saying re did they have successful stints abroad.

I think, just like with anything else, it's always hard to adapt to a new culture, language etc etc. Even when it's players who have gone to England. It's still a big adjustment. With this point in mind perhaps it's no coincidence that Moriarty is the exception as he's very settled at Gloucester.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Yeah, not sure what his record was like for Clermont. All I would say is that you can move, not play your best rugby over 2 years and still improve as a player but I see what you're saying re did they have successful stints abroad.

I think, just like with anything else, it's always hard to adapt to a new culture, language etc etc. Even when it's players who have gone to England. It's still a big adjustment. With this point in mind perhaps it's no coincidence that Moriarty is the exception as he's very settled at Gloucester.

Well that and Gloucester is practically Wales anyway.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

He's dead to me

No, he's just played that way for a while!

 

[E17yid]

No, he's just played that way for a while!

You don't fool me, Arnold. I know you have a LH bedspread at home.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

You don't fool me, Arnold. I know you have a LH bedspread at home.

And it's frequently in the wash!

 

[E17yid]

Anyone watch that Lions v Canes game? Crazy. The Chiefs were outclassed by the Crusaders in the other semi but they were right up there with a chance around the hour but the Crusaders were just to good, should be a good 10-15 point win for them against the lions in the final.

Damian McKenzie is an immense player, he's got Ben Smith ahead of him for the AB jersey but DM is only 20 I think and I can't see him not being NZ first choice 15 in the next 4 or 5 years.