The real reason behind our dip in form

[WhiteStripe]

Rather than singling out any one player, or looking at referreeing decisions going against us, I think we need to look at the real reason behind our recent dip in form.

The reason for our dip in form is that there is no actual dip in form. we are playing with the consistency we have played with all season. Yesterday was a prime example of how we play at the moment. We dominate teams, get in many good positions, have many attacking chances but often fail to capitalise on them.

I think some people think just because we haven't won in four EPL games that we have changed, or are playing at half pace, or not doing what wewere doing at the beginning of the season. Thats simply not the case. We've been like this all season tbh. On the whole, playing a better breed of football, more pleasing on the eye, more fluent and at points breathtaking to watch. We are just not scoring the goals, and getting punished with clinical efficiency for our mistakes.

Amongst the winless 4 game streak of EPL games, we beat the European Champs 3-1. Its not a dip in form, its just a consistent inconsitency in finding the back of the net.

We have 3 real outcomes to this problem.

1. We buy a new striker to play in the current 4-5-1 formation.
2. We start playing 4-4-2 again.
3. One of our strikers comes good.

 

[dimiSpur]

Excellent post, rep rep rep

 

[nicdic]

Well said.

We desperately need one of our strikers to step up to the plate. Can't wait for Defoe to be back, and we really need to sign a striker in the window.

 

[matjcole]

A good thought out and well written post.

Repped.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Yeah, good post

We're fine in the middle of the park - just not very good in the final third or in defense

 

[AngerManagement]

Yes signing Van Der Vaart has forced us to change our system and style of play to accomadate him.

It's not a negative, it just means we have to reinvent ourselves a little.

It will prove to be a positive move long term though, once the team does grow into this new formation and we put together the final pieces of this new puzzle i.e. a striker who can both support VDV and offer his own goal threat.

What we can see is this, we have the basis of an excellent first team and squad capable of playing some wonderful football. Once we get things right we will be a real force (providing we can keep these players together and add the 1/2 players we need to complete the set)

Signing VDV and changing our system has set us back from the continuity we had developed last season, but it will be worth it and in the long run we will be better for it and we now have greater potential. (the injuires to key players have also cost us big time so far)

It is by no means as doom and gloom as some fans are making out, but I can understand the frustration as expecations were raised to a level where many people took fourth for granted this year and expected us to be more involved in a title race than a race for fourth (for my money these people were duleuded but this is the nature of the emotional football fan)

A striker is so key for us, without Defoe we have nothing up front. Crouch works hard but offers little, Keane looks to be finished and Pav show flashes of class but has never really looked up to top level EPL standard since joining us.

I have no doubt the board and Harry no full well this is our problem and will look to make moves in Jan to rectify the issue. Easier said than done though and we may have to wait until the summer.

What it is important for us fans to remember is the bigger picture, even if we take one step back this year I am confident it will have been done to make 2/3 steps forward once we getting playing to our full potential with VDV in our already very talented first team.

 

[andyw362]

Rather than singling out any one player, or looking at referreeing decisions going against us, I think we need to look at the real reason behind our recent dip in form.

The reason for our dip in form is that there is no actual dip in form. we are playing with the consistency we have played with all season. Yesterday was a prime example of how we play at the moment. We dominate teams, get in many good positions, have many attacking chances but often fail to capitalise on them.

I think some people think just because we haven't won in four EPL games that we have changed, or are playing at half pace, or not doing what wewere doing at the beginning of the season. Thats simply not the case. We've been like this all season tbh. On the whole, playing a better breed of football, more pleasing on the eye, more fluent and at points breathtaking to watch. We are just not scoring the goals, and getting punished with clinical efficiency for our mistakes.

Amongst the winless 4 game streak of EPL games, we beat the European Champs 3-1. Its not a dip in form, its just a consistent inconsitency in finding the back of the net.

We have 3 real outcomes to this problem.

1. We buy a new striker to play in the current 4-5-1 formation.
2. We start playing 4-4-2 again.
3. One of our strikers comes good.

and an inability to keep a clean sheet. We are 2 players away from an outstanding team. But, without those 2 players, we cant score goals, and we cant keep clean sheets.

 

[guiltyparty]

Very good post, I can't rep you as I need to spread it, but well said

 

[Mr Pink]

Yes signing Van Der Vaart has forced us to change our system and style of play to accomadate him.

It's not a negative, it just means we have to reinvent ourselves a little.

It will prove to be a positive move long term though, once the team does grow into this new formation and we put together the final pieces of this new puzzle i.e. a striker who can both support VDV and offer his own goal threat.

What we can see is this, we have the basis of an excellent first team and squad capable of playing some wonderful football. Once we get things right we will be a real force (providing we can keep these players together and add the 1/2 players we need to complete the set)

Signing VDV and changing our system has set us back from the continuity we had developed last season, but it will be worth it and in the long run we will be better for it and we now have greater potential. (the injuires to key players have also cost us big time so far)

It is by no means as doom and gloom as some fans are making out, but I can understand the frustration as expecations were raised to a level where many people took fourth for granted this year and expected us to be more involved in a title race than a race for fourth (for my money these people were duleuded but this is the nature of the emotional football fan)

A striker is so key for us, without Defoe we have nothing up front. Crouch works hard but offers little, Keane looks to be finished and Pav show flashes of class but has never really looked up to top level EPL standard since joining us.

I have no doubt the board and Harry no full well this is our problem and will look to make moves in Jan to rectify the issue. Easier said than done though and we may have to wait until the summer.

What it is important for us fans to remember is the bigger picture, even if we take one step back this year I am confident it will have been done to make 2/3 steps forward once we getting playing to our full potential with VDV in our already very talented first team.

Ok you just made me laugh, which takes some doing to lift my mood after last night.

Yes the bigger picture is important, lets just hope we can keep the squad together if we dont make top 4 this season. I never thought we would compete for the title this season, but i did expect us to be in the hunt for fourth again.

If we are being objective and realistic it is going to be very difficult to finish in there this season. In a way last night has probably brought expectations down again somewhat, which might not be a bad thing.

By the way when I refer to last night, its not so much the result or performance I mean - its the significance of not winning after dropping so many points thus far.

 

[BorisTM]

Rather than singling out any one player, or looking at referreeing decisions going against us, I think we need to look at the real reason behind our recent dip in form.

The reason for our dip in form is that there is no actual dip in form. we are playing with the consistency we have played with all season. Yesterday was a prime example of how we play at the moment. We dominate teams, get in many good positions, have many attacking chances but often fail to capitalise on them.

I think some people think just because we haven't won in four EPL games that we have changed, or are playing at half pace, or not doing what wewere doing at the beginning of the season. Thats simply not the case. We've been like this all season tbh. On the whole, playing a better breed of football, more pleasing on the eye, more fluent and at points breathtaking to watch. We are just not scoring the goals, and getting punished with clinical efficiency for our mistakes.

Amongst the winless 4 game streak of EPL games, we beat the European Champs 3-1. Its not a dip in form, its just a consistent inconsitency in finding the back of the net.

We have 3 real outcomes to this problem.

1. We buy a new striker to play in the current 4-5-1 formation.
2. We start playing 4-4-2 again.
3. One of our strikers comes good.

Wow wow was not the same case with Ramos, when we were losing or couldn't win games albeit having 60% ball possession and plenty of shots, playing attractive football etc? But I remember people wanted ugly wins than beautiful loses.

 

[WhiteStripe]

Wow wow was not the same case with Ramos, when we were losing or couldn't win games albeit having 60% ball possession and plenty of shots, playing attractive football etc? But I remember people wanted ugly wins than beautiful loses.

Not me. I want attractive wins. We are building a squad/team/legacy that will achieve this.

 

[AngerManagement]

Ok you just made me laugh, which takes some doing to lift my mood after last night.

Yes the bigger picture is important, lets just hope we can keep the squad together if we dont make top 4 this season. I never thought we would compete for the title this season, but i did expect us to be in the hunt for fourth again.

If we are being objective and realistic it is going to be very difficult to finish in there this season. In a way last night has probably brought expectations down again somewhat, which might not be a bad thing.

By the way when I refer to last night, its not so much the result or performance I mean - its the significance of not winning after dropping so many points thus far.

Everyone is dropping points this season, last nights result doesn't knock us out of a race for fourth by any means.

We have had injuries, we are having to juggle massive CL matches with our league campagin for the first time and we are playing with no strikers upfront pretty much as we try to get used to our new formation.

Many people thought after we came fourth last year we were suddenly an established top four team and we should instantly move on to bigger and better things, this was a naive view in my opinion. I always expected coming fourth this year to be an even harder task than last what with having CL football to contend with and MAn City's money.

We have had a dip in form, well results yes. Does this really mean we are already out of the race for fourth? of course it does not.

If Liverpool can go from a relegation battle to a CL places battle in the space of 3 games you can understand how tight the league is this season and appreciate that there will be many twists and turns before the pattern for the season becomes clear.

If we go and win our next 4 games we will be back in the top four and the same people saying we are already comdemned to a mid table finish this season will instantly be making threads about outside title chances and sneaky bids for Messi again.

We are still very much in the race for fourth, it was always going to be a difficult task and the injuires to key players have compounded this, but let's not all over react. We have still improved as a unit, Van Der Vaart brings extra quality to our team, Bale-modric-lennnon-etc will all find their top form on a more consistant basis and we will continue to grow and move forward.

What I am saying is this, even if at the end of the season we find ourselves 5th and no longer in the CL that doesn't mean we are going backwards per say (there are many factors that effect league form over the course of the season) The bigger picture I am talking about is how we as a team and squad continue to grow and improve, not selling our best players and adding the quality we need to make ourselves a top force.

 

[Mr Pink]

Not me. I want attractive wins. We are building a squad/team/legacy that will achieve this.

We are WhiteStripe, but we will have a hard job keeping this squad together come the summer if we dont finish in the top 4, thats the reality particularly that they have tasted it now. Even with good compensation rebuilding always sets you back. A cynical view perhaps, but I still feel its vitally important that we finish top 4 this season.

But I agree with your original post in principle.

 

[Mr Pink]

Everyone is dropping points this season, last nights result doesn't knock us out of a race for fourth by any means.

We have had injuries, we are having to juggle massive CL matches with our league campagin for the first time and we are playing with no strikers upfront pretty much as we try to get used to our new formation.

Many people thought after we came fourth last year we were suddenly an established top four team and we should instantly move on to bigger and better things, this was a naive view in my opinion. I always expected coming fourth this year to be an even harder task than last what with having CL football to contend with and MAn City's money.

We have had a dip in form, well results yes. Does this really mean we are already out of the race for fourth? of course it does not.

If Liverpool can go from a relegation battle to a CL places battle in the space of 3 games you can understand how tight the league is this season and appreciate that there will be many twists and turns before the pattern for the season becomes clear.

If we go and win our next 4 games we will be back in the top four and the same people saying we are already comdemned to a mid table finish this season will instantly be making threads about outside title chances and sneaky bids for Messi again.

We are still very much in the race for fourth, it was always going to be a difficult task and the injuires to key players have compounded this, but let's not all over react. We have still improved as a unit, Van Der Vaart brings extra quality to our team, Bale-modric-lennnon-etc will all find their top form on a more consistant basis and we will continue to grow and move forward.

What I am saying is this, even if at the end of the season we find ourselves 5th and no longer in the CL that doesn't mean we are going backwards per say (there are many factors that effect league form over the course of the season) The bigger picture I am talking about is how we as a team and squad continue to grow and improve, not selling our best players and adding the quality we need to make ourselves a top force.

I agree with all of this completely but at the moment we dont look like going on a winning streak - thats the concerning thing for me, heck I wouldn't even bet on us beating Blackburn at home this coming weekend, nevermind a four game winning streak. The simple fact is we are leaking goals and not scoring them, by my book that is real cause for concern.

Like you I was always aware that the race for fourth would be even harder for the reasons you mention, and your right - of course its not over but if Man City win tonight they will be 7 points ahead already and our start to the season (regarding fixtures) hasn't been the hardest despite it being a very competitive league, no easy games etc..

What is worrying is that the pattern is starting to become clear - we cant score many, and we certainly cant keep a clean sheet. Those are the telling aspects in our League form to date - no subjective interpretation required when looking at that.

 

[beals]

Personally I think its the sum of the parts rather than one or two individual players. We just have to many players either out or under performing at the moment. The thing about last season, was that we always seemed to have someone who could put the ball in the net. We had a multitude of different scorers. However, with Spurs a high always seems to be followed by a v long and drawn out low. Last year we hammered Wigan and didn't win for how long after? Now this year we beat the reigning Champions of Europe, get hammered by bolton, roll over against ManU with the help of the ref as usual, and are held to a draw by Sunderland, it all seems so familiar.

 

[AngerManagement]

I agree with all of this completely but at the moment we dont look like going on a winning streak - thats the concerning thing for me, heck I wouldn't even bet on us beating Blackburn at home this coming weekend, nevermind a four game winning streak. The simple fact is we are leaking goals and not scoring them, by my book that is real cause for concern.

Like you I was always aware that the race for fourth would be even harder for the reasons you mention, and your right - of course its not over but if Man City win tonight they will be 7 points ahead already and our start to the season (regarding fixtures) hasn't been the hardest despite it being a very competitive league, no easy games etc..

What is worrying is that the pattern is starting to become clear - we cant score many, and we certainly cant keep a clean sheet. Those are the telling aspects in our League form to date - no subjective interpretation required when looking at that.

It's our lack of firepower without Defoe. We just don't look like we have goals in us at the moment in the league against Premier League defences.

Maybe certain players just need to catch a lucky break and gain confidence off the back off this. If Crouch got a lucky goal for example it might give him the confidence and composure he has been lacking when presented with a chance infront of goal in the league thus far.

 

[norflondon]

Rep for the OP.

We are playing nice football but lack the ability to put teams away. Our defence has also been guilty of making some poor mistakes which are punished in the Premier League. Last night summed us up really at the moment. Lots of ability, good at keeping the ball but with limited cutting edge. 17 corners and we made Gordon work maybe once from them? Having scored the goal that should have won the game, a cock-up by Gallas/Kaboul (does Kaboul has such limited faith in Gallas he felt he needed to get involved in the challenge?) gifted them a goal.

The loss of Dawson, Defoe, Lennon hurts, and we should have found replacements for King & Woodgate in the summer. Being short of 3 centre-halves and a finisher (whether or not that is Defoe is a debate is for another topic) is hurting us.

 

[Mr Pink]

It's our lack of firepower without Defoe. We just don't look like we have goals in us at the moment in the league against Premier League defences.

Maybe certain players just need to catch a lucky break and gain confidence off the back off this. If Crouch got a lucky goal for example it might give him the confidence and composure he has been lacking when presented with a chance infront of goal in the league thus far.

We dont and when you consider that our goals where coming from all over the pitch last season it kind of tells you something. I mean the opening game of last season against Pool, Bassong and Benny were the goal scorers that day.

I think Lennon's lack of form has hurt us as well. He was on fire this time last year....a massive part in our really good start to the League, at Hull, West ham...home to Birmingham etc.

 

[spurdownunder]

Great post & thread.
Finally some sense and sanity amidst the gloom and doom.

COYS onwards and upwards from here....consistantly!

 

[Krafty]

With the 4-4-1-1 formation we are finding it hard to break down teams that are defensively organised. It was too rigid last night. Delivery into the box was too slow. Our striker was massively outnumbered, and its no surprise we had a number of long shots because Sunderland sat very, very deep.

Having Defoe back would help, because we could then have a proper two upfront, with VdV in behind.

But my biggest gripe is clean sheets. I'd have taken a 0-0 last night just to get a clean sheet. We are conceding far too many goals often from individual mistakes.

We need to press higher up the pitch (which would be helped by two strikers playing up there) and we need to be a lot tighter and dick around a lot less at the back.

The English style, high tempo, pace and power will work in Europe against teams that are not used to it. In the Prem we need more.

Its the first time I've said it, but I think Harry's tactics are holding us back a little. Why there were no subs last night (save Crouch, and even then that was forced on Harry) I dont know.

We have the team to do really really well, its frustrating to see us lose our way a little in the Prem.