The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 9th June 2019

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Johnny J

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A little heads up. The market is ridiculous and crazy, with near zero morals and ethics. We get a very clear idea on a price of a player from agents, mandates, selling club etc. We actually bid what ‘they’ have suggested. We already agree all with player’s agents.

Say for example 50m (just example). It gets out there, and they put it about (selling club), and say they want more, we go back in at 60m. We think we have a deal. One of the agents we work through gets word to us that they are inviting bids 20m more than ours. They make known out bid. Nobody bites. We begin to talk to other payers through their agents, as we think we are getting played. The player now starts wanting answers, and we get blamed. It is now DL’s fault.

Poch is fully aware of this and supports his chairman, who really wants to get deals done early. Conclusion to this, we are very confident on acquiring our main targets. And we will not be spending silly money on AWB.
Thanks for the info. Good to hear we're positive about our main targets.

Speaking only for myself, I'm going to be very disappointed if the "ridiculous and crazy" market is yet again the reason we don't get our targets, or at least some of them. It's a tough market every year.
 

McArchibald

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One thing is very clear for me, we're in real need of a quality CM.

In light of the latest ITK, if we end up paying 70million for Ndombele, for example, he'd end up being worth every penny in all likelihood.

Yes, we should always try and get the best deal, but it's about understanding the Value, not just price, in terms of the impact and need for certain individual signings.

There should be no excuses in acquiring a real quality CM this summer, none.
This.

Ask not just what a player costs, but what he can do for you. Today's excess can easily turn out to be be tomorrow's bargain.
 

WiganSpur

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One thing is very clear for me, we're in real need of a quality CM.

In light of the latest ITK, if we end up paying 70million for Ndombele, for example, he'd end up being worth every penny in all likelihood.

Yes, we should always try and get the best deal, but it's about understanding the Value, not just price, in terms of the impact and need for certain individual signings.

There should be no excuses in acquiring a real quality CM this summer, none.
Nobody is saying we should play crazy money that's way over market value. We have to have a limit. If we offer our best then we have to force a decision on that offer or else we are just wasting valuable time.
 

BENNO

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Then you complain when the AWBs of the world go on and do well else where and then subsequently complain and ask why we did not go for him. Even with just one season, AWB has more than shown that he is quality and have nothing to prove. I would have him in a heart beat as he is one of those players we have been crying out for, he would more than enhance our squad.
I'm not a massive fan of Trippier, and i've liked what i've seen of AWB, but i'd be staggered if he's actually done any more this past season than Trippier did the previous season (and at a World Cup). Whatever you think of AWB, he's only done it in one season, and in a team that predominantly plays on the counter attack. Different ball game at Spurs when there is no space to run into - the same problem with paying top whack for Zaha. Fine if the asking price builds in the 'can he progress,do it next season at a bigger club playing a different way' but if the asking price for AWB is £50m then that's basically what you pay for the finished article i.e Walker to Man City when he was a proven, top 4, International class full back (although quite probably not the best example). As i said, i like AWB and in an ideal world i'd rather have him as our RB next season than anyone else currently at the club, but i'd be pretty certain £50m is better spent elsewhere first. And as an aside, no one seems to even consider the fact that Trippier might actually regain his previous seasons form (when we all reckoned he was better than Walker) although i wouldn't hold my breath on that one, but it's not totally mad to think he might.
 

Mr Pink

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Nobody is saying we should play crazy money that's way over market value. We have to have a limit. If we offer our best then we have to force a decision on that offer or else we are just wasting valuable time.
Sighing a quality CM should be at the very top of our list of properties.

Poch's targets will be well known to levy. If we're making real bids, we must be confident that deals can be done.

Otherwise we're wasting time and the frustration will build for everyone.
 

PT

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I'm not a massive fan of Trippier, and i've liked what i've seen of AWB, but i'd be staggered if he's actually done any more this past season than Trippier did the previous season (and at a World Cup). Whatever you think of AWB, he's only done it in one season, and in a team that predominantly plays on the counter attack. Different ball game at Spurs when there is no space to run into - the same problem with paying top whack for Zaha. Fine if the asking price builds in the 'can he progress,do it next season at a bigger club playing a different way' but if the asking price for AWB is £50m then that's basically what you pay for the finished article i.e Walker to Man City when he was a proven, top 4, International class full back (although quite probably not the best example). As i said, i like AWB and in an ideal world i'd rather have him as our RB next season than anyone else currently at the club, but i'd be pretty certain £50m is better spent elsewhere first. And as an aside, no one seems to even consider the fact that Trippier might actually regain his previous seasons form (when we all reckoned he was better than Walker) although i wouldn't hold my breath on that one, but it's not totally mad to think he might.
Maybe, the value, which is what Pochettino and Levy trade by, is identifying and acquiring a player like Tierney for half the price.
 

hakano

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Cannot believe some of the posters since Hercs info :
It is what it is
Just pay up
The market has moved etc

That is not how business works, you cannot just keep saying “yes ok” to upping your original offer, word would soon get out and you would end up overpaying for every Aquisition you needed

Thanks for the info Herc, very informative
Or word would get out and nobody would ever take your opening offer seriously.
 

Fidget

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Unless I'm wrong and taking Hercs ITK too literally it appears we have met a selling clubs price twice but they keep asking for more money? If that is the case, what do you think the club should be doing differently to get the deal done? Pay the extra £20m? Whos to say they won't ask for more again?

I get the negativity as it does feel like a road we've all been down before but I don't really see what the club have done wrong in this instance.
If you can’t afford the best tool for the job in hand, then you look at what’s on offer and decide on the next best tool that you can afford.
otherwise the job just doesn’t get done. again. and then, next time, nobody calls you out.
 

ExpatFan

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I agree. The way I see from @Hercules post, is the Agents are more interested in the size of their commission than any interest of their clients' choice of where to go, but I could be wrong
"... Agents are more interested in the size of their commission than any interest of their clients' choice of where to go..."
Oh well, first time for everything, I suppose.
 

rawhide

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We always seem to be the ones letting other clubs dictate the proceedings. If the clubs, agents and players weren't somewhat interested in a deal then they wouldn't be talking to us.

There are loads of players that would improve us so just make both parties a fair offer, set a deadline and then move on if they are not willing to bite by that point. I reckon at least some of them will bite, and if not then we go to the next one down the list. We need players in for pre-season, it's as simple as that. We need major surgery unlike a lot of other clubs, so playing a waiting game is incredibly risky.
That’s how we’ve ended up with N’Koudu and several other “plan Bs”
 

Fidget

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Nobody is saying we should play crazy money that's way over market value. We have to have a limit. If we offer our best then we have to force a decision on that offer or else we are just wasting valuable time.
so why are we wasting valuable time?
 

WiganSpur

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That’s how we’ve ended up with N’Koudu and several other “plan Bs”
That's the job of the scouting team. Nkoudou and Njie etc should have never been on the list. There are plenty of players out there in the market who will or at least have the potential to improve us in positions where we are weak. To disagree with that is just crazy.

You're telling me we can't sign better than Trippier, Dier, Wanyama, Llorente etc?

If we wait around, yes there's a chance we might be able to pull off a big name transfer. But then we may not, and we will have no time to react. At the end of the day, we should only be having players who really want to be here.

I appreciate the point of view, but what should dictate being able to bring quality in is not waiting around, it's having more money to throw at them to grease the wheels along with a deadline. Threaten to take away the opportunity to the player or a decent agent payday and they will have to make a decision at least.
 

dondo

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I'm not a massive fan of Trippier, and i've liked what i've seen of AWB, but i'd be staggered if he's actually done any more this past season than Trippier did the previous season (and at a World Cup). Whatever you think of AWB, he's only done it in one season, and in a team that predominantly plays on the counter attack. Different ball game at Spurs when there is no space to run into - the same problem with paying top whack for Zaha. Fine if the asking price builds in the 'can he progress,do it next season at a bigger club playing a different way' but if the asking price for AWB is £50m then that's basically what you pay for the finished article i.e Walker to Man City when he was a proven, top 4, International class full back (although quite probably not the best example). As i said, i like AWB and in an ideal world i'd rather have him as our RB next season than anyone else currently at the club, but i'd be pretty certain £50m is better spent elsewhere first. And as an aside, no one seems to even consider the fact that Trippier might actually regain his previous seasons form (when we all reckoned he was better than Walker) although i wouldn't hold my breath on that one, but it's not totally mad to think he might.
Itk suggested trippier has played with a injury he pick up at the World Cup all season so could explain his poor form this season.
I wouldn’t right him off just yet
 

Col_M

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Cannot believe some of the posters since Hercs info :
It is what it is
Just pay up
The market has moved etc

That is not how business works, you cannot just keep saying “yes ok” to upping your original offer, word would soon get out and you would end up overpaying for every Aquisition you needed

Thanks for the info Herc, very informative
That’s the Woodward way of doing things. and whilst there is a Woodward there will be chancers.
 

Lighty64

PC huh what a joke, avatar changed
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We always seem to be the ones letting other clubs dictate the proceedings. If the clubs, agents and players weren't somewhat interested in a deal then they wouldn't be talking to us.

There are loads of players that would improve us so just make both parties a fair offer, set a deadline and then move on if they are not willing to bite by that point. I reckon at least some of them will bite, and if not then we go to the next one down the list. We need players in for pre-season, it's as simple as that. We need major surgery unlike a lot of other clubs, so playing a waiting game is incredibly risky.
We need major surgery?

We finished top 4 after everything that’s happened this season, played 6 games short of playing the maximum, reached a domestic cup semifinals and the Final of the biggest comp in Europe. What we need is to fill 2 positions in midfield before anything, and hope for a season with less injuries
 

McFlash

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So Levy and the club have only just realised the market is brutal with no morals?! 😂 excuses excuses.

This seems familiar. Last season we started of all positive, then apparently our main targets were proving elusive for all various reasons, and eventually it was either back up targets or nothing.

Liverpool didn’t seem to find it difficult to do deals in 2018. Chelsea managed to sign Pulisic in January. But for Spurs it seems signing top players is beyond us. I wonder why...

It’s really quite black and white. Levy either delivers the players that the fans and Poch want and expect, or he doesn’t. I think we don’t want to hear excuses anymore. If he doesn’t, yet again, you’d have to say Levy has taken us as far as he can. Time to shit or get off the pot and let someone else take us on to become credible title challengers with the investment in the squad to back it up.

Let’s all hope this time it’s different, for once.
Levy hasn't just realised anything, @Hercules was just explaining some things for the thicker fucks amongst us.
 

oobaties

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Cannot believe some of the posters since Hercs info :
It is what it is
Just pay up
The market has moved etc

That is not how business works, you cannot just keep saying “yes ok” to upping your original offer, word would soon get out and you would end up overpaying for every Aquisition you needed

Thanks for the info Herc, very informative
TBH, I’ve always seen transfers like buying a house. House goes on the market at a particular price, you make an offer (sometimes lower) of the asking price, however if multiple parties are interested, then a bidding war starts. It’s not uncommon to come back with a number of higher bids. It all comes down to who wants the house the most and ultimately who can make the biggest offer. If I’m selling my house, you can be damn sure I’ll be encouraging a bidding war!
 

Scott Spur

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Cannot believe some of the posters since Hercs info :
It is what it is
Just pay up
The market has moved etc

That is not how business works, you cannot just keep saying “yes ok” to upping your original offer, word would soon get out and you would end up overpaying for every Aquisition you needed

Thanks for the info Herc, very informative
Your comment applies totally in a stable market, but the Premier League is only a couple of seasons in to benefitting from a major windfall of TV money (mainly international). This changes things, prices inflate, even clubs like Palace are capable of bidding amounts that only the elite clubs could match a few years back.

A player will only be worth the amount someone is prepared to pay - the trouble is, Levy seems to be set on paying 2015 prices. Don’t get me wrong, he’s done an amazing job building the club up, especially with the stadium etc and there is a limit to the funds available. However, the time to step and start acting like a big club is right now, a repeat of last summer will critically injure this club and likely lose our most valuable asset - Poch.

Nobody said it was going to be easy, maybe you have to pay over the odds once or twice (think VVD) but that’s why he’s paid the big bucks - get the job done this time, no damn excuses. We have to start acting differently.

(PS - I run a very successful business)
 

brasil_spur

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All big businesses have a bid management team. I assume we have something similar? All the blame seems to fall at Levy’s feet, but I would be surprised if he is a one man band leading all the negotiations.
Knowing what I know about some of the off the field aspects of the club I highly doubt it and this is likely a part of the problem. We might have matured in many areas but contract negotiation doesn't seem to be one of them.
 
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