The club has to accept Responsibility for their Failure this window

[Phate]

No, it's because Villa, Chelsea and Liverpool have paid mental money for strikers this window, which was the only way they were going to get them.

Yes, that won't help either!

 

[lifeof...]

:clap::clap::clap:

To have got the top top player we wanted we would have to have done a chelsea and lay out 50 million and that probably was sopmething the club were not prepared to do.

we have a great squad that is currently being tested with injuries but we have great cover for bale modric and hudd in Niko Pienaar and Wilson there are not many clubs in Euroipe that can boast that cover let alone the PL. And you add jenas and sandro

Come on guys its not that negative. im pleased we did not piss it all away on carroll at 35 million. Of the ones we went for Only Aguero IMHO is worth the large dolla.

and we have a 15 million plus defenderreturning
:grin::grin::grin::grin:

can you, hand on heart, say 100% even if we had gone all in early, week 1,for both Suarez and Carrroll, 23 mil former, and 27 mill the later, with a 2 day window to agree deal. We would 100% never signed them? i cant....An i add i use this as an example....We cannot know, if we did diffently we would have achieved a better result....What we can do is ask ourselves, are we really doing this the best way?

 

[SpurSince57]

Harry decided against Suarez, and apparently we did try for Carroll earlier in the window but were knocked back.

 

[lifeof...]

Harry decided against Suarez, and apparently we did try for Carroll earlier in the window but were knocked back.

i know i was using Suarez as an example, to reiterate my actual point, (OP) i have tried hard, not to make it about individual players, or our own opinion on the players "worth"

Just really our transfer methodology this window, may help to read op?:wink:

tbh my recollection on Carroll was 23mill? in about week3

 

[ThorntonSpur]

can you, hand on heart, say 100% even if we had gone all in early, week 1,for both Suarez and Carrroll, 23 mil former, and 27 mill the later, with a 2 day window to agree deal. We would 100% never signed them? i cant....An i add i use this as an example....We cannot know, if we did diffently we would have achieved a better result....What we can do is ask ourselves, are we really doing this the best way?

To be honest i dont really rate sureaz that much coming straight from dutch league. Carroll for 20 million or so would have been interesting, BUt we could have got Carroll for that plus Pav Im sure.
BUT what would people have thought if we had spent 50 million and got Auguero ?? Eek

 

[StockSpur]

we've won the league a few times (50 years ago), so have everton, leeds (present day) and they aint recognised top clubs either, we aint a top club i think realistically that if the goal is to be top 3 then its a 10 year plan that starts with the new stadium, (dunno how good our youth setup is) until then the only revenue building assets the club has are individual players.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

The structure definitely needs looking at, if Charlie Adam was a target then they should have went for him earlier. It really shouldn't come down to Levy ringing up Harry at 10:40pm asking him if he wants him when there's 20mins of the window left, it's amateur.

Since we qualified for the CL our main purchases have been VdV on deadline day, Gallas on a free and Steven Pienaar. Gallas and VdV have so far been great buys and Pienaar also looks like a good bit of business. Personally I'm happy we never spent £35m+ on a striker like Carroll/Rossi. I don rate both players but they are overpriced. We are desperate for a striker though and have been since the summer window. I find it hard to believe that we couldn't have improved on our strike force without paying £30m+ or paying £130k+ wages. This is where our scouting team need to earn there money, they should be covering the globe looking for exciting talent. While we don't have Chelski/Man City money we're not poor and are still a big club in comparison to most EPL teams. With a proper scouting network and strategy in place we could have gathered a list of potential lesser known targets and got in there early, if a deal couldn't have been done last summer then have some targets identified for the beginning of Jan.

I think that we need to get more creative with our player recruitment, Borussia Dortmund signed Shinji Kagawa for under £1m in the summer from a Japanese club and he's been one of the best players in the league and they're now top (he's out for the season now by injury unfortunately). West Brom signed Odemwingie, he was very good at Lille but then had a bad time in Russia, he's had a great season so far. Fulham signed Dembele for £5m, on Sunday he did something what none of our strikers seem capable of doing. Who had heard of Javier Hernandez before the World Cup and move to Man U? He can't be on £140k and i'm sure he didn't cost £30m.

We don't have to go out for ready made stars, of course then we're going to struggle to bring them in. It's much harder to secure the services of the flavour of the month. I don't have a problem at all with us having a wage cap etc but we just need to do more in terms of bringing in lesser known players.

 

[ThorntonSpur]

The structure definitely needs looking at, if Charlie Adam was a target then they should have went for him earlier. It really shouldn't come down to Levy ringing up Harry at 10:40pm asking him if he wants him when there's 20mins of the window left, it's amateur.

Since we qualified for the CL our main purchases have been VdV on deadline day, Gallas on a free and Steven Pienaar. Gallas and VdV have so far been great buys and Pienaar also looks like a good bit of business. Personally I'm happy we never spent £35m+ on a striker like Carroll/Rossi. I don rate both players but they are overpriced. We are desperate for a striker though and have been since the summer window. I find it hard to believe that we couldn't have improved on our strike force without paying £30m+ or paying £130k+ wages. This is where our scouting team need to earn there money, they should be covering the globe looking for exciting talent. While we don't have Chelski/Man City money we're not poor and are still a big club in comparison to most EPL teams. With a proper scouting network and strategy in place we could have gathered a list of potential lesser known targets and got in there early, if a deal couldn't have been done last summer then have some targets identified for the beginning of Jan.

I think that we need to get more creative with our player recruitment, Borussia Dortmund signed Shinji Kagawa for under £1m in the summer from a Japanese club and he's been one of the best players in the league and they're now top (he's out for the season now by injury unfortunately). West Brom signed Odemwingie, he was very good at Lille but then had a bad time in Russia, he's had a great season so far. Fulham signed Dembele for £5m, on Sunday he did something what none of our strikers seem capable of doing. Who had heard of Javier Hernandez before the World Cup and move to Man U? He can't be on £140k and i'm sure he didn't cost £30m.

We don't have to go out for ready made stars, of course then we're going to struggle to bring them in. It's much harder to secure the services of the flavour of the month. I don't have a problem at all with us having a wage cap etc but we just need to do more in terms of bringing in lesser known players.

What i find odd is telling everybody thats what happened - that is amateur. it makes us look planks to everyone else.

anyway if we've saved the 40 million then maybe we can sign aguero in the summer for 45 million and then carroll next jan for 15 when he
f@%$£s up

 

[striebs]

The issue is much deeper than the one you highlight. Call me cynical but I don't believe the club tried to sign a marquee striker this window. If they had really tried then the bids would have been made much earlier. They made a series of scatter gun bids on the last day so they could tell us that they tried safe in the knowledge none would be accepted by the selling clubs when they had no chance to replace. The proof of this will come on July 1, will we return with 35-40m bids for Aguero, Rossi or Llorente on the first day of the next window when they might be accepted ? Hell no.

Would have served Levy right if Rossi and his current club had said yes .

There is a fairly significant lack of ambition somewhere at the club, what we don't know is whether that is the chairman being unwilling to pay fees or wages or the manager unwilling to put his neck on the line.

I think they have concluded correctly that they don't have the finances to compete with the clubs which are going to finish in the top 4 so there is no point in spending any more than neccessary to finish in top 6 .

Unfortunately I think Levy will twist it into "justification" for moving the franchise to Stratford .

 

[jj87]

We have the finances - we can compete - as everyone forgotten we are still in the CL and finished above Man City last year??

We just havent made the right footballing decisions - Levy and Redknapp's fault - not the fault of having a 36,000 capacity!! Please let's not forget that.

 

[SpurSince57]

The structure definitely needs looking at, if Charlie Adam was a target then they should have went for him earlier. It really shouldn't come down to Levy ringing up Harry at 10:40pm asking him if he wants him when there's 20mins of the window left, it's amateur.

Since we qualified for the CL our main purchases have been VdV on deadline day, Gallas on a free and Steven Pienaar. Gallas and VdV have so far been great buys and Pienaar also looks like a good bit of business. Personally I'm happy we never spent £35m+ on a striker like Carroll/Rossi. I don rate both players but they are overpriced. We are desperate for a striker though and have been since the summer window. I find it hard to believe that we couldn't have improved on our strike force without paying £30m+ or paying £130k+ wages. This is where our scouting team need to earn there money, they should be covering the globe looking for exciting talent. While we don't have Chelski/Man City money we're not poor and are still a big club in comparison to most EPL teams. With a proper scouting network and strategy in place we could have gathered a list of potential lesser known targets and got in there early, if a deal couldn't have been done last summer then have some targets identified for the beginning of Jan.

I think that we need to get more creative with our player recruitment, Borussia Dortmund signed Shinji Kagawa for under £1m in the summer from a Japanese club and he's been one of the best players in the league and they're now top (he's out for the season now by injury unfortunately). West Brom signed Odemwingie, he was very good at Lille but then had a bad time in Russia, he's had a great season so far. Fulham signed Dembele for £5m, on Sunday he did something what none of our strikers seem capable of doing. Who had heard of Javier Hernandez before the World Cup and move to Man U? He can't be on £140k and i'm sure he didn't cost £30m.

We don't have to go out for ready made stars, of course then we're going to struggle to bring them in. It's much harder to secure the services of the flavour of the month. I don't have a problem at all with us having a wage cap etc but we just need to do more in terms of bringing in lesser known players.

And yet this time last season no-one was complaining about our strikers, for the very good reason that they'd scored about 25 between them (and Pavlyuchenko hadn't even got started); that seems to have been forgotten in the general stampede to rubbish them. If Defoe hadn't been injured, if even Crouch had knocked in as many as he did in the first half of last season, would people be quite so frantic?

You realise that if we'd signed Hernandez (and yes, it does look as if Ramos got us the wrong Mexican) or Odemwingie there would have been uproar? 'What does Harry think he's doing? We're a big club and we want big names! Where's the ambition?' Otherwise, I completely agree, except that Sunday's performance belied the fact that Dembélé has been pretty pants.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

And yet this time last season no-one was complaining about our strikers, for the very good reason that they'd scored about 25 between them (and Pavlyuchenko hadn't even got started); that seems to have been forgotten in the general stampede to rubbish them. If Defoe hadn't been injured, if even Crouch had knocked in as many as he did in the first half of last season, would people be quite so frantic?

You realise that if we'd signed Hernandez (and yes, it does look as if Ramos got us the wrong Mexican) or Odemwingie there would have been uproar? 'What does Harry think he's doing? We're a big club and we want big names! Where's the ambition?' Otherwise, I completely agree, except that Sunday's performance belied the fact that Dembélé has been pretty pants.

Plenty of people were complaining about all of our strikers this time last year.

And it's rubbish to suggest everyone insists on every signing being a huge marquee signing. Plenty of people were very pleased with the signing of Dos Santos for example despite his small fee and relative top flight inexperience.

There are plenty of people on here that judge a player by his ability, not his fee.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Daniel Levy fucked up transfer windows when Jol and Ramos were in charge

Anyone suprised by this window has the memory of a goldfish

 

[SpurSince57]

Plenty of people were complaining about all of our strikers this time last year.

And it's rubbish to suggest everyone insists on every signing being a huge marquee signing. Plenty of people were very pleased with the signing of Dos Santos for example despite his small fee and relative top flight inexperience.

There are plenty of people on here that judge a player by his ability, not his fee.

Goes to show, doesn't it?

I didn't suggest everyone insisted on a huge marquee signing. And yes, plenty of people were very pleased with dos Santos. Shame he was rather less use than Fraizer Campbell.

 

[Midostouch]

I thought I'd post this here just because some 'friend' of mine (Liverpool glory hunter) sent it to me on Facebook (No idea where he got it from). I don't agree with the whole sentiment because I have a lot of admiration for Levy. Having said that, I'm still feeling so disappointed about the window and our prospects for the rest of the season, that I share they way he feels, even if I don't feel the venom and sarcasm he does.


"Dear Mr Levy (and indeed Mr Redknapp), On behalf of the supporters of Tottenham Hotspur FC everywhere, thank you. Thank you for giving us back our Tottenham. Thank you for bringing back to us what it is to follow Spurs. Once more we can feel like we’re used to feeling, when thoughts of that cockerel-adorned crest come to mind, so again I say thank you. Thank you for re- introducing us to those familiar experiences of disappointment, wasted opportunities, expectations of mediocrity, and that gentle whiff of embarrassment. It’s clear that you realised we were starting to forget what success felt like, so the feelings had begun to be less raw. Less intense. We needed that glimpse of the promised land to remind us what we were missing. But now you have returned our club to us. This transfer window, you could have led us down a path that would leave us uncomfortable, nervous and twitchy. A path of hope; not a path we were familiar with, prior to the last couple of years. But you saw our confused little faces, and said ‘No - this cannot go on’. Despite our recent comparative success, certain flaws in our team have been evident to all but the most blinkered of observer. For example, the lack of specialist cover at left-back is one area which patently needs addressing, yet due to the flexibility of players like William Gallas and Younes Kaboul this is an area that could wait until the Summer. There is, however, one area that could not wait. Not if we were to stand any chance of retaining our position among the Champions League elite next season. Not if we were to stand any chance of winning any silverware in the short-to-medium term. Not if we were to avoid a decline from which it will be very difficult to return. That area; the one of greatest importance and urgency; is in the forward line. The strikers. Firstly, let me illustrate my point using some statistics about our strikers. The combined number of league goals that have been scored this season by the three senior strikers currently on our books totals six. That is less league goals between them than Gareth Bale has scored on his own. One third less league goals between them than Rafael Van der Vaart has scored on his own. Aaron Lennon, about whom it has often been said (incorrectly in my opinion) that he lacks a final ball, has managed half as many goals on his own as our entire strike-force. Even Alan Hutton, our full-back, has managed two league goals. All of these players have scored more league goals this season than either Peter Crouch or Jermain Defoe. At the moment, Crouchy couldn't introduce a banjo to a bovine posterior if they both had name-badges and a bloke at the door announcing them like one of those Cinderella ballroom scenes. I think this point needs even greater context. At Chelsea, the attacking line of Drogba, Anelka and Kalou have managed 20 league goals, and this is considered to be a poor return this season. They have just added to this strike-force to the tune of £50 million. At Manchester City, Tevez and Balotelli alone have 19 league goals. They too have gone to significant expense to secure a front-line striker in this window in the form of Edin Dzeko. In the red half of that city, the combination of Berbatov, Hernandez and Rooney (in a tricky season for the England striker) have managed 28 league goals. And our natural enemies from up the road have seen 21 league goals scored by Chamakh, Van Persie, Walcott and Bendtner. Even Liverpool, who have had a woeful first half of the season by their standards, have seen 15 league goals scored by Torres, Kuyt and Ngog. They may have subsequently lost Torres to Chelsea, but they have replaced him with Andy Carroll and Luis Suarez. Remind me, weren’t both of those players linked with us during this transfer window? And how have we enhanced our striking options during this oh-so-important period? By getting rid of Robbie Keane and Giovanni Dos Santos. Just for a one further reference point, in the 2007/2008 season, our four strikers managed 40 league goals. I’ll say that number again. 40. See the difference? I don’t think I can make the point any clearer than this: without a first-class strike-force, you will not achieve anything in football. Even if your defence is water-tight (and ours has been anything but this season), it takes goals to win games. It takes wins to achieve league success. It takes league success to maintain European football. And it takes European football to maximise turnover and attract top players. Success breeds success. And it all grows from scoring goals. And what is the core reason for our failure to secure a top class striker in January? Because we persist in playing this ridiculous game of chicken with other clubs at the transfer deadline. Quite frankly, it’s pathetic. Other fans laugh at us. The BBC Live Text used the following simple phrase to sum up our desperate last-minute scramble to secure Charlie Adam: So near. So far. So Tottenham. Does it give you some kind of buzz to see how near to the final second you can push it? Is it the gambler in you? Is it the chance that a last minute deal can open opportunities for a bargain? Because let me clarify this for you. Rafael Van der Vaart was a one-off. It was the exception, rather than the rule. It was a freak of modern football, and was rightly lauded as such. If you leave it too late for other clubs to find a replacement, or so late that administrative problems can scupper the deal, you are left with nothing. You are standing empty-handed; with a pile of cash burning a hole in your pocket; cash which you will be simply throwing away in May when we finish 5th in the League. Or even worse, 8th. And let’s be clear, missing out on European football next season altogether is far from out of the picture. Congratulations. You have gambled away tens of millions of pounds of Champions League revenue for the chance of saving one or two million. Sound business sense? I think not. It’s like me heading to the bookies and putting a grand on a bet that might return a hundred, but at ridiculously bad odds. Stop this. Stop it now. When you have an opportunity, do the deal. Secure the players we need to take us to the next level, or even maintain us at this level. Make sure of our future success, rather than throwing it away. And just out of curiosity, what were we going to do with Charlie Adam? He’s a great player don’t get me wrong. But is he simply cover for Huddlestone? Cover that is so much better than Jenas, Palacios, Sandro, O’Hara or any of the other multitude of centre-midfielders we have, that it is worth concentrating on that deal rather than making one last push to get a forward in? And what do we do when Thudd is fit again? Consign Adam to the bench? Drop Huddlestone? Or shift to an even-more centre-heavy formation of 4-6-0? Hell, why not? The strikers aren’t delivering anyway. According to the press, we have been linked with Dzeko, Suarez, Carroll, Aguero, Fabiano, Forlan, Llorente, Rossi, Lukaku and countless others in this transfer window. It’s clear that you thought about the problem. But this is one of those cases where it’s NOT the thought that counts. To dare is to do. We didn’t think you’d dare pass up this chance to save the season and cling onto Champions League football. But you did it.
So yeah, thanks a lot."

All I posted back to my so called friend was that I could help the writer with using paragraphs if he liked. :grin:

 

[DEFchenkOE]

And yet this time last season no-one was complaining about our strikers, for the very good reason that they'd scored about 25 between them (and Pavlyuchenko hadn't even got started); that seems to have been forgotten in the general stampede to rubbish them. If Defoe hadn't been injured, if even Crouch had knocked in as many as he did in the first half of last season, would people be quite so frantic?

You realise that if we'd signed Hernandez (and yes, it does look as if Ramos got us the wrong Mexican) or Odemwingie there would have been uproar? 'What does Harry think he's doing? We're a big club and we want big names! Where's the ambition?' Otherwise, I completely agree, except that Sunday's performance belied the fact that Dembélé has been pretty pants.

I think that most people expected Pav to go in the summer, he hardly played first half of last season, Keane was loaned out 2nd half of the season, I expected him to leave too. I think most fans are happy to have Crouch in the squad as an option but very few have ever wanted him to be first choice due to how he makes us play. Most people like JD but he's always scored in streaks, very rarely scores the decisive goal in games. I don't think last season was much different. I can't remember as fact but I'm sure I remember lots of threads last season complaining about them. Let's face it 25 goals between 4 strikers in a team that played 442 is a good record but hardly amazing.

And I think that most fans are pretty to receptive to most signing even if they haven't heard of them, didn't hear too many complaints about Sandro and Khumalo etc its the Neville's and Parkers I hear complaints about most

Really I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, how big or widespread our scouting network is, I can only judge on what I see coming into our club and what I see going on at other clubs here and in Europe. I would like to think we have a dedicated team obsessed with finding talent young or old in the UK or abroad. Not just in the obvious places either but all over, places like Serbia, Belgium, Croatia, Norway, Australia, s America etc we can't seem to acquire the ready made stars from Spain, Italy so need to think outside the box a bit. I guess we'll see what happens in the summer.

 

[Stoof]

I am, and sure several other, are not children or un-knowledgeably on business matter. and therefore, do not need Stoof "idiots guide" on the football business world, especially when there are 3 clear examples in the last 36hours? which factually ruin your point.

From some of the stuff that's spouted on here, I think it's worth me creating a fucking sub forum on it, actually.

On accepting Responsibility...having tabled a bid for approx 35 mil, your point is not really relevant, As we have to assume all of your points have being accepted as ok to spend.

I purposely pointed out, that it wasn't about blame, which you seem to ignore to make your point. The clubs action, quite convincing imo, point to the clubs desire to buy a 'top striker" to the tune of approx 35mill, , if necessary. They totally failed to achieve that, it is easy to blame the selling club, the players wage demand etc, well anything other than 'yourself" However it is smarter to accept the responsibility of failure, blame yourself if you like. And look at how you stop it happening again. and as i tried to point out, i mean the whole process. There is, in essence nothing wrong in failing, as long as you learn by it and improve from it, this can only happen when you actually accept responsibility for it.

You're not wanting to use the word "blame" - but it's exactly what you're doing mate!

I don't disagree with your comments regarding "what the fans think" but when has it ever being possible to please all of the people all of the time.

and what is wrong with the club, looking in at themselves, and saying, "you know we could have done better" and actually doing something about that?

If you feel, the club did, "everything they could" Did 'everything very well" and "could have done nothing better" from their dealing point of view(rather than selected targets as that is P.O) fair enough, i just happen to disagree, so put my thoughts on here

That's fine, and as such you realise that by posting some quite far-fetched blame-inducing comments you're likely to get a post from me like the one above.

Edit: just to add...What us fans think about "how much" if we had signed Carroll or even Rossi is not to the point. Whilst the re-action may be true. The club signified the willingness to spend 35mil, on a young player. What we feel (about price for player) is not relevant, what the club felt is, and what the club felt was that they were willing to "risk" 35 mil on a young striker who is not currently a proven marque striker. Having established that fact. We Failed to achieve

I know "how much" is not the point in relation to us fans. What we feel isn't relevant - but you'll be surprised at the number of posts that talk of monetary value in these forums. And it was one factor behind some players not being as popular as potentially they could be (Bentley and Bent, as examples).

"We failed to achieve" is so dramatic. It really is.

 

[leetotty]

For those that think the club can be run better than what it currently is...Put some money up and buy it. After all its easy, get a bit of money together put in a bid and the deal will be sealed....How hard can it be

 

[Azazello]

Putting together structured deals can be difficult and time-consuming and I would be amazed if all we did was put in a few bids half an hour before the deadline expired.

 

[Spurger King]

Having calmed down a bit since the end of the transfer window, I'd say that if people really want to blame anyone for their failure, it should be the strikers.

Defoe, Crouch and to a lesser extent Pav (who has a reasonable scoring record seeing as Harry has forgotten he plays for us) should be more than capable of knocking in the goals, and we can't blame Levy or the board for the poor performances of those players.

Of course it's been evident that we need a new striker since last season, so it's frustrating that in two windows we have not been able to bring anyone in, but if the strikers were performing to even half of their abilities the lack of a new striker wouldn't appear anywhere near as glaring as it is right now.