The All New Spurs U21, U18 & Other Youth News Thread

[newbie]

I read an article written by a coach a year or two ago that basically said that when Wenger first came to England is coaching techniques were revolutionary but they have barely evolved since then, where as coaching techniques are evolving constantly. This is believed to be a big reason (among with others) why they have gone from the invincibles to scrapping 4th each season.

I wonder if the same thing has happened with their academy?

2 theory's

One arsenal cut back when they built there stadium

Two after meeting the person who organises everything from arsenal the other week who was so far stuck up her own arse. I wonder if arrogance and delusions of grandure they think they are better than they are and have got complacent. Accademies are a long term strategy and what happened 5-10 years ago I am sure is crucial.

 

[spurs9]

2 theory's

One arsenal cut back when they built there stadium

Two after meeting the person who organises everything from arsenal the other week who was so far stuck up her own arse. I wonder if arrogance and delusions of grandure they think they are better than they are and have got complacent. Accademies are a long term strategy and what happened 5-10 years ago I am sure is crucial.

I don't but the "cut back due to the stadium" reason, as they still have more money than the likes of Fulham and I doubt we pay our academy players more than them. They also already had the infrastructure and were doing much better than us, so no real drastic changes needed to be made.

Having a culture of arrogance is very plausible and could well be why both the first team coaching techniques have barely evolved and the academy has declined in quality compared to the opposition.

 

[newbie]

I don't but the "cut back due to the stadium" reason, as they still have more money than the likes of Fulham and I doubt we pay our academy players more than them. They also already had the infrastructure and were doing much better than us, so no real drastic changes needed to be made.

Having a culture of arrogance is very plausible and could well be why both the first team coaching techniques have barely evolved and the academy has declined in quality compared to the opposition.

I don't buy the cut backs either but when I asked my mate a scum fan why his beloved arsenals accademy is not what he was that was his reason I said that's crap you pay 100k plus s week to some players.

 

[Spursidol]

I don't but the "cut back due to the stadium" reason, as they still have more money than the likes of Fulham and I doubt we pay our academy players more than them. They also already had the infrastructure and were doing much better than us, so no real drastic changes needed to be made.

Having a culture of arrogance is very plausible and could well be why both the first team coaching techniques have barely evolved and the academy has declined in quality compared to the opposition.

Think the problem could be twofold - Wenger has been on place for many years and his 'reolutionary' ideas when he arrived are now old and outdated plus Brady was IMO appointed for his explayer credentials and not as a forward thinking youth coach, and so did not take it really forward. Good news for us is that they will need to re-invigorate the academy and that will take a few years to get results from thre time thayt make the changes - it will still mean they bring the odd player through (eg Akrom may make it), but they will not briong through the same numbers as Spurs are looking like doing in the next few years.

Yeah =- agree 'arrogance' if you mean redusal to spt the problem and make the necessary changes

 

[lennon4england]

Does anybody think we should be doing more to give these players some minutes in the first team?

Southampton are ahead of us in the league, and it sounds like our U21s outperformed theirs despite our relative lack of experience (most of their U21s have had 1st minutes this season).

That says to me that despite our stronger U21 team, Southampton are doing a far better job of integrating their youth players into the first team (these experiences are probably massively helping their development). I think we should be concerned that our clearly incredibly talented players are not getting the experience they need to progress.

We all praise Poch but I he should be doing more. Bentaleb and Kane had already established themselves in the first team last season, so the only player Poch has successfully integrated was Mason who is already 23 so not really youth when brought into the team.

 

[Romulus]

Does anybody think we should be doing more to give these players some minutes in the first team?

Southampton are ahead of us in the league, and it sounds like our U21s outperformed theirs despite our relative lack of experience (most of their U21s have had 1st minutes this season).

That says to me that despite our stronger U21 team, Southampton are doing a far better job of integrating their youth players into the first team (these experiences are probably massively helping their development). I think we should be concerned that our clearly incredibly talented players are not getting the experience they need to progress.

We all praise Poch but I he should be doing more. Bentaleb and Kane had already established themselves in the first team last season, so the only player Poch has successfully integrated was Mason who is already 23 so not really youth when brought into the team.

i defintely think Winks and Onomah could have played more minutes this season but the problem is our squad is too big with too many average players like Capoue, Paulinho and Chiriches. hopefully these guys can be moved on in the summer and people like Pritchard and the 2 mentioned can come through.

 

[spursfan77]

I read an article written by a coach a year or two ago that basically said that when Wenger first came to England is coaching techniques were revolutionary but they have barely evolved since then, where as coaching techniques are evolving constantly. This is believed to be a big reason (among with others) why they have gone from the invincibles to scrapping 4th each season.

I wonder if the same thing has happened with their academy?

Yeah I read the same about your first paragraph.

I think their academy has suffered because us and other teams are getting the best kids ahead of them (Brady previously stated this) and so they are struggling to get the best ones in. Plus wenger seems to have stopped going to France and picking up all the best youngsters for peanuts. This age could be because other teams have just copied them or done a better job at it.

 

[bceej]

2 theory's

One arsenal cut back when they built there stadium

Two after meeting the person who organises everything from arsenal the other week who was so far stuck up her own arse. I wonder if arrogance and delusions of grandure they think they are better than they are and have got complacent. Accademies are a long term strategy and what happened 5-10 years ago I am sure is crucial.

I think the Champions League could have something to do with it. From the homegrown players at Arsenal who have appeared for the first team (Gibbs, Coquelin, Ramsey, Wilshere, Szczesny and Akpom this season in the league), only Gibbs, Akpom and Wilshere were remotely produced by the club rather than being taken at professional playing age from another club. Of homegrown players, 3 have come from Southampton, 1 from Cardiff, 1 from United...you get the picture. Even Gibbs and Wilshere came from other league clubs. In Harry Kane, Ryan Mason and Andros Townsend we have proof that our academy is working and we are challenging for European spots with them.

 

[Spursidol]

I think the Champions League could have something to do with it. From the homegrown players at Arsenal who have appeared for the first team (Gibbs, Coquelin, Ramsey, Wilshere, Szczesny and Akpom this season in the league), only Gibbs, Akpom and Wilshere were remotely produced by the club rather than being taken at professional playing age from another club. Of homegrown players, 3 have come from Southampton, 1 from Cardiff, 1 from United...you get the picture. Even Gibbs and Wilshere came from other league clubs. In Harry Kane, Ryan Mason and Andros Townsend we have proof that our academy is working and we are challenging for European spots with them.

Arsenal have been in CL for all/most of the time Wenger has been there. So when their academy was working well they wre able to give minutes to their youngsters in domestic cups and group stages of CL.

However in the last about 5 or 6 years their academy produced youngsters have not been of the right quality - and you are correct they have had to supplement/replace by bringing in youngsters at an older age from other clubs - nothing unusual about that ManU have done it for years on a big scale, Arsenal on a medium scale.

However most of Spurs kids coming through were brought through the Academy completely. So its still a question as to why Arsenal's Academy has declined so much in the last 5 or 6 years. No concern of mine - just interest so we avoid anysimilar fate !

 

[mill]

Does anybody think we should be doing more to give these players some minutes in the first team?

Southampton are ahead of us in the league, and it sounds like our U21s outperformed theirs despite our relative lack of experience (most of their U21s have had 1st minutes this season).

That says to me that despite our stronger U21 team, Southampton are doing a far better job of integrating their youth players into the first team (these experiences are probably massively helping their development). I think we should be concerned that our clearly incredibly talented players are not getting the experience they need to progress.

We all praise Poch but I he should be doing more. Bentaleb and Kane had already established themselves in the first team last season, so the only player Poch has successfully integrated was Mason who is already 23 so not really youth when brought into the team.

I've felt for a while that we should, where possible, blood the kids earlier. I think it would enable us to secure better loans for them, which would futher their development. after all if we're prepared to give them some game time scouts may take more of an interest in them. I'm sure scouts views of our players would be higher if they got to see them play genuine competitive football rather than just the youth leagues, even if it just is europa and early cup rounds.

As has been mentioned though this bloated squad of ours is very bad timing considering some of the talent we've got coming through and further highlights why AVB really was the wrong manager for us, cheque book manager just as the youth start to come to fruition

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Pretty sure Arsenal have rarely bought through their own talent (bar Wilshere and Cole I guess in recent years).

They've long concentrated on poaching young players part way through their development from other teams (see the Barca/Southampton/French lads, Gibbs etc). At least, that's my understanding from one of my Gooner mates.

A bit like Liverpool with Ibe and Sterling or us with Bentaleb and Rose, I guess.

 

[nidge]

Pretty sure Arsenal have rarely bought through their own talent (bar Wilshere and Cole I guess in recent years).

They've long concentrated on poaching young players part way through their development from other teams (see the Barca/Southampton/French lads, Gibbs etc). At least, that's my understanding from one of my Gooner mates.

A bit like Liverpool with Ibe and Sterling or us with Bentaleb and Rose, I guess.

Bentaleb wasn't wanted by anyone and had, had a trail at Birmingham before getting a trail with us if I remember correctly.

 

[jambreck]

Highlights of the U18's 4-1 win v Arsenal:

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/u18-arsenal-home-highlights-260215/?

 

[IGSpur]

Bentaleb wasn't wanted by anyone and had, had a trail at Birmingham before getting a trail with us if I remember correctly.

Agree I consider him a completely different case. Obviously he had raw ingredients but for no one to want him clearly we are the ones that turned him from a player unwanted by even Birmingham I bekive to a potentially world class player.

Additionally I consider Rose slightly different Ibe was already playing league football and had massive hype and was subsequently bought. Everyone was after Sterling and I beloved he was bought for a 500k rising to 5mil.

I don't think Rose was bought but was it more a compensation. Additionally he never had that hype.

 

[prawnsandwich]

OK-all you guys who watch the youth-hand on heart-one guy and one guy only who will make it.

 

[jambreck]

OK-all you guys who watch the youth-hand on heart-one guy and one guy only who will make it.

Cameron Carter Vickers.

 

[Romulus]

OK-all you guys who watch the youth-hand on heart-one guy and one guy only who will make it.

Onomah.

 

[mpickard2087]

I think the reason we can fairly confidently say we have leapfrogged Arsenal when it comes to the academies is that the club have worked harder and committed the time/people/resources to identify the young players who show signs of potential. I wouldn't say its down to Arsenal cutting back due to financial pressures building the stadium.

I remember reading years and years ago an interview with McDermott when he was still new at Spurs. He made a point of saying that for a long time Spurs had been a club that took a half hearted approach to finding these kids. They scouted in the Home counties and picked players up from the 'nice' clubs/schools who had good facilities they could go and visit, and where parents could also afford to send their children to a soccer school/camp and maybe get noticed that way, but hadn't done enough in spotting inner city kids in London and this was something that he wanted to change. Fast forward 5-10 years and you have noise coming out of Arsenal (was it Liam Brady?) conceding that it was often the case that they noticed a player, but then found out that we had simply had the scouts on the ground far more comprehensively and been faster at identifying them. That's without even going into factors such as the new facilities and also other educational/community work that is done that goes into it as well.

Arsenal have maybe got a bit complacent, but I think the sheer effort we have put in has been rewarded.

 

[Saoirse]

CCV, so calm and composed for his age. But I'd be sorely disappointed at this stage if he was the only one from the current crop.

 

[chrisd2k]

Veljkovic