Summer 2023 squad discussion

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Ali Gold's thoughts on the 10 returning loan players:

Udogie, Ndombele and the future of Spurs' 10 returning players under Postecoglou

The Tottenham Hotspur head coach has been making his mind up on a large number of players who returned to the club this summer

www.football.london

Summary:

Staying: Udogie, Lo Celso

Leaving (sale or loan): Reguilon, Rodon, Spence, Scarlet, Parrott, White

Undecided: Ndombele, Bryan

 

[Yiddo100]

Ali Gold's thoughts on the 10 returning loan players:

Udogie, Ndombele and the future of Spurs' 10 returning players under Postecoglou

The Tottenham Hotspur head coach has been making his mind up on a large number of players who returned to the club this summer

www.football.london

Summary:

Staying: Udogie, Lo Celso

Leaving (sale or loan): Reguilon, Rodon, Spence, Scarlet, Parrott, White

Undecided: Ndombele, Bryan

Yeah I’m happy enough with that outcome.

 

[arunspurs]

If latest ITK to be believed, then Richarlison is our no9 this season (if Kane sold) and no Kane replacement...may be we buy a young striker...

If thats the case & Richarlison gets off to a bad start, Ange job will be under pressure in no time.

I do have some hope in Richarlison as a striker role but not getting a Kane replacement would not go down well at all.

 

[Yiddo100]

If latest ITK to be believed, then Richarlison is our no9 this season (if Kane sold) and no Kane replacement...may be we buy a young striker...

If thats the case & Richarlison gets off to a bad start, Ange job will be under pressure in no time.

I do have some hope in Richarlison as a striker role but not getting a Kane replacement would not go down well at all.

The latest itk does suggest we’ll be getting a younger striker in.

 

[arunspurs]

The latest itk does suggest we’ll be getting a younger striker in.

yes, young as in good enough to challenge or compete with Richarlison right away ?
or young as in raw player who may not even make the match day squad, even if Richarlison is having a bad season ?

At the moment, it can be anything

 

[Yiddo100]

yes, young as in good enough to challenge or compete with Richarlison right away ?
or young as in raw player who may not even make the match day squad, even if Richarlison is having a bad season ?

At the moment, it can be anything

I’d imagine (hope) a €30-35m young striker, someone like that wahi who we were linked with, someone who scored a fair few goals but wouldn’t demand a first team slot instantly. Gift Orban springs to mind.

 

[arunspurs]

If we want only youngish cheap strikers, then I want us to go get both
Lucas Beltran(River Plate) and Alejo Veliz (Rosario Central). May be loan one of them out.

Both are up & coming super stars in SouthAmerican circuit. Atleast this way, we would be building for future.

Having said above, I still want us to go splash the cash on Muani than buy young players. We need a good striker this season

 

[Snarfalicious]

I’m totally on board with that Ali Gold assessment. That being said, I doubt we are able to even get sales or loans for all those players.

The thing that bothers me so much about our transfer business is if we don’t want to pay premiums for players, you have to target younger ones and hope you can help develop them. But, we don’t really appear to have anything working in that department, which is just bizarre. It’s all confusing to me.

 

[Hoowl]

Ange has a tried and tested system. A 442 out of position which converts to a 235 with inverted full backs when attacking. A desire to be a protagonist in games, using possession as a means of defence and squeezing the play to win the ball back quickly. Honestly it's seems like a refreshing change.

However...

In order to make this system work, the players on the pitch need specific attributes and abilities that are very different to those required by our previous N mangers: Centre backs who are comfortable on the ball and can hold a high line. Wingers who like to go outside and have the dribbling and pace to beat a man. A central striker who offers a threat in behind. Full backs that can invert.

My worry in the short term is that we have too many square pegs for the system, some of whom have been our best players over the last few years (Kane, Son, Kulu) or are recent big money signings (Porro). In fact in our pre-season games it has seemed like our 'B' team is more suited to the system than our 'A' team.

I am fully bought in for the long run of Ange's style of football (I'm not sure I can bring myself to say I trust the process...) but I feel like it will need a revolution rather than an evolution in terms of our playing staff and I'm not expecting that before the season starts. It could take 18 months or more.

Hopefully we get a few signings in key areas that can alay some of my fears. Maybe unknowns like Udogie will step up. Surely Bissouma will be better this year and not having Europe means squad depth is not as much of an issue. But at the moment my initial excitement is wearing off and I'm mentally preparing myself for a frustrating start to the new season where the ideas look good but the implementation doesn't quite seem to click.

 

[Metalhead]

Ange has a tried and tested system. A 442 out of position which converts to a 235 with inverted full backs when attacking. A desire to be a protagonist in games, using possession as a means of defence and squeezing the play to win the ball back quickly. Honestly it's seems like a refreshing change.

However...

In order to make this system work, the players on the pitch need specific attributes and abilities that are very different to those required by our previous N mangers: Centre backs who are comfortable on the ball and can hold a high line. Wingers who like to go outside and have the dribbling and pace to beat a man. A central striker who offers a threat in behind. Full backs that can invert.

My worry in the short term is that we have too many square pegs for the system, some of whom have been our best players over the last few years (Kane, Son, Kulu) or are recent big money signings (Porro). In fact in our pre-season games it has seemed like our 'B' team is more suited to the system than our 'A' team.

I am fully bought in for the long run of Ange's style of football (I'm not sure I can bring myself to say I trust the process...) but I feel like it will need a revolution rather than an evolution in terms of our playing staff and I'm not expecting that before the season starts. It could take 18 months or more.

Hopefully we get a few signings in key areas that can alay some of my fears. Maybe unknowns like Udogie will step up. Surely Bissouma will be better this year and not having Europe means squad depth is not as much of an issue. But at the moment my initial excitement is wearing off and I'm mentally preparing myself for a frustrating start to the new season where the ideas look good but the implementation doesn't quite seem to click.

If it's a project, surely we need that patience? It never even occurred to expect anything to click too quickly. Maybe I'm getting old but anything good has to take a bit of time.

 

[spurmin]

Ange's style of football. Please no more ffs

 

[robotsonic]

I live in hope that if you're given the opportunity to work with players with absolutely elite skillsets, particularly in terms of Kane and Son, then you have to find a way to adapt your preconceived system to make use of what they can bring as they are better players than Ange's system has ever been tested with, and absolutely world class. I very much hope that we don't see what we've become accustomed to, just relentlessly forcing the square peg into the hole, and that Ange can instead make a couple of different shaped holes to suit what's actually available to him.

If Kulusevski can find a way to use his right foot at all then I think he can make the role work on the right as he certainly has the trickery and upper body strength to beat a man, but for real we are going a bit into the unknown in a couple of other positions. I'm excited still though to see how it all shakes out and how the squad learn to play a type of football that we can actually enjoy.

 

[Timberwolf]

Ange has a tried and tested system. A 442 out of position which converts to a 235 with inverted full backs when attacking. A desire to be a protagonist in games, using possession as a means of defence and squeezing the play to win the ball back quickly. Honestly it's seems like a refreshing change.

However...

In order to make this system work, the players on the pitch need specific attributes and abilities that are very different to those required by our previous N mangers: Centre backs who are comfortable on the ball and can hold a high line. Wingers who like to go outside and have the dribbling and pace to beat a man. A central striker who offers a threat in behind. Full backs that can invert.

My worry in the short term is that we have too many square pegs for the system, some of whom have been our best players over the last few years (Kane, Son, Kulu) or are recent big money signings (Porro). In fact in our pre-season games it has seemed like our 'B' team is more suited to the system than our 'A' team.

I am fully bought in for the long run of Ange's style of football (I'm not sure I can bring myself to say I trust the process...) but I feel like it will need a revolution rather than an evolution in terms of our playing staff and I'm not expecting that before the season starts. It could take 18 months or more.

Hopefully we get a few signings in key areas that can alay some of my fears. Maybe unknowns like Udogie will step up. Surely Bissouma will be better this year and not having Europe means squad depth is not as much of an issue. But at the moment my initial excitement is wearing off and I'm mentally preparing myself for a frustrating start to the new season where the ideas look good but the implementation doesn't quite seem to click.

I think one of the benefits of having a large, bloated squad is that we can integrate a few young players and outcasts that suit Ange's system quite well, in addition to adding new signings. It's not like the Jose days when the squad was in pieces and he had nothing to work with so we we were fully reliant on improving the squad through buys. In fact we could feasibly get rid of 10 players in Dier, Sanchez, PEH, Reguilon, Sessegnon, Gil, Rodon, Ndombele, Lloris and Tanganga and barely notice the difference. And many of these have been regular first teamers.

While there are question marks about how well certain players will work under Ange (I'm also a bit concerned about how our first choice front 3 suit an Ange system) I think the likes of Bissouma, Udogie, Sarr, Romero, Bentancur, Richarlison, Lo Celso, Perisic, Royal, Solomon Maddison and hopefully Vicario are all quite natural fits for his style. Plus it looks like we're going to sign VdV and at least one other ball playing centre back.

That's quite a lot of players...

There will undoubtedly be some teething problems while the players adjust and we mould the squad. I don't think we'll be great overnight, but I do think Ange has some decent raw materials to work with and it won't require a full rebuild.

And when your biggest issue is trying to work out how to get the best out of your 2 world class players, that's about as 'first world problem' as it gets.

 

[eViL]

If Kulusevski can find a way to use his right foot at all

It's a myth that he doesn't. I've seen Kulu use his right more than I saw Lamela use his in all the time he was here.

 

[kremlyn]

It's a myth that he doesn't. I've seen Kulu use his right more than I saw Lamela use his in all the time he was here.

Agreed but he's got work to do. Manor switched to the right and showed that quick burst to the goal line folowed by quick and decisive low crosses and cut back passes that the system demands.

Kulu is just as quick to shift inside but far more ponderous on the outside. Could he switch to the left wing? Or could he learn to speed up on the right?

Either way I think he needs to evolve a bit.

 

[GetSpurredOn]

I’d been looking at some of the suggestions banded about on here over the last week, hadn’t seen the Veliz suggestion initially.
Orban, obviously news ramped up this week in the media, looks very raw, but has looked prolific early on.
Wahi - also very raw, looks a little chaotic on the ball, almost clumsy, but does seem to know how to score.
Beltran - actually really like the look of him, looks less dynamic than the two above but more technical, very tidy finisher, looks to have a good appreciation of space, be that finding it to shoot, or finding others with a pass.
Gouiri, similar to Beltran, works space off defenders well, clinical finisher, but moves better with the ball in deeper/wider areas, perhaps that hybrid forward we could make most use of.
Beyond them, Gustav Isaksen and Ernest Nuamah look very lively wide forwards, left footers coming in off the right. Perhaps more of a punt.

I actually think we’re 3 players light of where we need the squad, plus another 2-3 fringe players young enough to not need registering but able to provide some depth options.

Given some of these forwards are under 21 (at the start of the year) and wouldn’t need registering in the league, I’d hope for two bought in. Veliz as a pure 9, then Orban or Gouiri (probably more expensive) as a hybrid option.
RWF - Kulusevski, Gil
LWF - Son, Solomon
CF - Richarlison, Orban/Gouiri, Veliz

At CB, Van De Ven is looking likely, then whilst Tabsoba is the favoured other option, I’m quite onboard with Sutalo if Tabsoba isn’t doable. Adarabioyo isn’t a bad option, would help HG too, but I think the others are a slight level above.
RCB - Romero, Dier/Tanganga
LCB - Tabsoba/Sutalo, VdV

I still feel if Hojbjerg goes, we would do with another CM too. Remains to be seen if it needs to be a first team ready player, or more of a project, based on how advanced Sarr is in Ange’s plans, does he replace PEH and we bring in an Alex Scott type player to replace Sarr as depth, or do we need an actual starter. This is on the assumption Lo Celso stays, but expecting Ndombele to not make the cut. The issue here is Bentancur’s injury, if he was fit now, I’d be less concerned about adding here. Maybe just placing faith in Devine is the answer.
6. Bissouma, Skipp
8. Bentancur, Sarr, +1?
10. Maddison, Lo Celso

That’s a fair bit of expense, but with the Kane money, plus potentially sales of Reguillon, Hojbjerg, Sanchez, Rodon?, Dier/Tanganga? It should mostly be covered, and would leave us with a less heralded, but younger more dynamic squad.

 

[spurs9]

I’d been looking at some of the suggestions banded about on here over the last week, hadn’t seen the Veliz suggestion initially.
Orban, obviously news ramped up this week in the media, looks very raw, but has looked prolific early on.
Wahi - also very raw, looks a little chaotic on the ball, almost clumsy, but does seem to know how to score.
Beltran - actually really like the look of him, looks less dynamic than the two above but more technical, very tidy finisher, looks to have a good appreciation of space, be that finding it to shoot, or finding others with a pass.
Gouiri, similar to Beltran, works space off defenders well, clinical finisher, but moves better with the ball in deeper/wider areas, perhaps that hybrid forward we could make most use of.
Beyond them, Gustav Isaksen and Ernest Nuamah look very lively wide forwards, left footers coming in off the right. Perhaps more of a punt.

I actually think we’re 3 players light of where we need the squad, plus another 2-3 fringe players young enough to not need registering but able to provide some depth options.

Given some of these forwards are under 21 (at the start of the year) and wouldn’t need registering in the league, I’d hope for two bought in. Veliz as a pure 9, then Orban or Gouiri (probably more expensive) as a hybrid option.
RWF - Kulusevski, Gil
LWF - Son, Solomon
CF - Richarlison, Orban/Gouiri, Veliz

At CB, Van De Ven is looking likely, then whilst Tabsoba is the favoured other option, I’m quite onboard with Sutalo if Tabsoba isn’t doable. Adarabioyo isn’t a bad option, would help HG too, but I think the others are a slight level above.
RCB - Romero, Dier/Tanganga
LCB - Tabsoba/Sutalo, VdV

I still feel if Hojbjerg goes, we would do with another CM too. Remains to be seen if it needs to be a first team ready player, or more of a project, based on how advanced Sarr is in Ange’s plans, does he replace PEH and we bring in an Alex Scott type player to replace Sarr as depth, or do we need an actual starter. This is on the assumption Lo Celso stays, but expecting Ndombele to not make the cut. The issue here is Bentancur’s injury, if he was fit now, I’d be less concerned about adding here. Maybe just placing faith in Devine is the answer.
6. Bissouma, Skipp
8. Bentancur, Sarr, +1?
10. Maddison, Lo Celso

That’s a fair bit of expense, but with the Kane money, plus potentially sales of Reguillon, Hojbjerg, Sanchez, Rodon?, Dier/Tanganga? It should mostly be covered, and would leave us with a less heralded, but younger more dynamic squad.

Gouiri is 23, so would need to be registered.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

I believe, though I seem to be in a minority, that we need a CM/CDM with real defensive know-how regarding positioning/covering gaps/tracking runners that can marshal the midfield and CBs.

To be an option at the base of the midfield 3.

I think we rally lack specialised quality in that area (I don't believe Bissouma is a natural fit for that position despite being a great footballer).

A Rodri / Casemiro / Caceido /Amrabat / Paulhina type.

Although i'm excited about the style of football we will try and play under Big Ange - I am worried about being sliced open on the counter attack or under sustained pressure.

 

[Trix]

I believe, though I seem to be in a minority, that we need a CM/CDM with real defensive know-how regarding positioning/covering gaps/tracking runners that can marshal the midfield and CBs.

To be an option at the base of the midfield 3.

I think we rally lack specialised quality in that area (I don't believe Bissouma is a natural fit for that position despite being a great footballer).

A Rodri / Casemiro / Caceido /Amrabat / Paulhina type.

Although i'm excited about the style of football we will try and play under Big Ange - I am worried about being sliced open on the counter attack or under sustained pressure.

I think it's Bentancur that will make that role his own in the long term to be honest.

 

[RuskyM]

I believe, though I seem to be in a minority, that we need a CM/CDM with real defensive know-how regarding positioning/covering gaps/tracking runners that can marshal the midfield and CBs.

To be an option at the base of the midfield 3.

I think we rally lack specialised quality in that area (I don't believe Bissouma is a natural fit for that position despite being a great footballer).

A Rodri / Casemiro / Caceido /Amrabat / Paulhina type.

Although i'm excited about the style of football we will try and play under Big Ange - I am worried about being sliced open on the counter attack or under sustained pressure.

Hear me out: Emerson.

(This might be because I really like him and want him and Porro in the same team, but I genuinely believe he could do it. He’s a smart enough player.)