Something bugging me

[ItsBoris]

Hopefully this doesn't seem like a rant.

But something I've noticed that's really bothering me is that every game we've played the last few months, probably without exception, at least 2-3 of the players have played horrifically poorly. Like they look like they've never even seen a football. Also, a lot of times it's the usual suspects (We all know who). It doesn't seem to me like other teams on our level have this like we do, except maybe Torres at Chelsea, but for the most part their players can at least do something constructive on a regular basis. A few of our players look totally lost yet they continue to start games or come off the bench?

There are also a set of usual suspects who usually play pretty well at least - Bale, Lennon, Dembele, Vertonghen, Dawson usually, Lloris, and possibly one or two others. They have average games like all players do but I rarely see them looking totally lost like they've never played a football match.

And there are some in betweens, and some players who are young and still maturing, or getting used to the rest of the team (as I think is true is Sigurdsson and Holtby's cases).

I just don't see how this ends up happening, these are supposed to be professional football players and if they are literally failing every game why don't they put some more effort in and try to correct it themselves? Why is our coaching staff incapable of getting these players back on track. Is it coincidence that 3 of the players who often look like they've never seen a football (Dempsey, Adebayor, and Defoe) are probably under the guidance of the same coaches (striking coaches). Since these coaches (I won't mention names) seem to have proven useless, why haven't they been replaced especially as they were carried over from Redknapp's regime and they were useless with our strikers in that period of time as well.

I'm pretty sure Basel doesn't have our resources or spend the kind of money we do on transfers so how are they able to put out a team that can make us look like mugs at home? Similarly with Swansea, they don't spend the kind of money we do but they can still find decent and even excellent players for cheap and can teach them how to pass and play to their strengths. Why can't we do the same?

Imo huge changes are required in summer, a lot of players need to be sold and a lot need to be bought and if Levy has any sense of decency he should back his manager and get the players he wants, and if he can't do that then we need to be smart in going for decent alternatives who can fit into the system we play because a large portion of this current crop look fucking useless.

 

[spivmaster]

Frankly, I think there are more than a few players that AVB does not want playing for him. Adebayor, Defoe, BAE, and Dempsey are the most obvious, I think. I know that if I were AVB I would harbor ill-will towards Friedel for putting me in a position where I feel obligated to play him when I have a healthy Lloris sitting on the bench. He won't say it, ever, because he knows how damaging losing the locker room can be to a manager. Especially a young one who has been touted predominantly for his tactical nous. He has no historical weight that he can carry around and crush players' objections with. That's a clumsy way of putting it, but what I mean is: he can't use his force of personality or point to his prior successes (like someone like SAF or Wenger or Mourinho could) to silence dissenting voices in the locker room. I bet it's incredibly difficult to earn respect as a coach in any professional football league, especially so with some of the primadonnas that we hear about in the EPL.

So, he needs to have everyone (or most everyone) on his side. And if they can't be on his side, then they at least have to be placated--which is exactly what I think is happening with players like Friedel and Gallas. Gallas should not be starting in the QFs of the Europa League. AVB knows that. It is a political move. Because Levy is such a tight-wad, AVB realizes he has no choice but to keep some players happy by playing them. Even if they don't deserve to be happy.

AVB knows he might be stuck with some of these players. He still clearly has PTSD from the horror-show that was his time at Chelsea and probably drinks himself to sleep every night just to drown out Lampard's screams, so, yeah, perhaps he has been overzealous in trying to appease players who don't deserve it. But it's not without good reason.

AVB likes players that are highly self-motivated. He likes players like Parker, Vertonghen, Bale, Sandro, etc. because he knows that he doesn't have to treat them like children every time they hit a bad run of form or have a bad game. But he also likes those types because he knows that he would struggle to motivate those types of players anyway. Personally, I don't think it's in his skill set, yet. Basically, I think he's afraid of losing even a portion of the locker room. He's doing it at the expense of having a few poor games now and again, but he's playing the long-con by hoping it will be a net-positive over the course of an entire season.

I think you're right about a lot of things. We should be questioning the striker coaches. But aren't they same we had last season? We, well Mr. Daniel Levy, should consider buying players that fit AVB's system, instead of panic buys like Dempsey. Which was sanctioned to either placate the fans or hurt Liverpool or because 6m is a decent price for a player who scored as many goals as he did last season--or all of the above. But I think by now we all know how frustratingly meaningless statistics from last season are.

There isn't a single "cause" here and 'blame' could probably be apportioned by a shotgun. But I'll be honest, I'm prone to blame the players. It's frustrating to see these young guys living the dream--and I mean that as literally as possible, the dream--and not give 100% every single second. Is it because players are thrust into the limelight so young now that they feel entitled for the rest of their career? Could it be they simply don't know how lucky they are? What could AVB, or any coach for that matter, possibly have told Defoe and Adebayor that would have turned them into the players they are now?

On the other hand, playing football at that level is probably hard as shit. Maybe our expectations are too high and maybe we're the entitled ones. Either way, it's hard to justify paying some of these players even meager wages for what they're contributing, or rather not contributing.

Then again, I really don't know much of anything and this is only stuff I've gleaned from putzing around on the internet. That, and we're still a pretty damn good team.

 

[ItsBoris]

Much to think about in that reply Spiv. Just to point something out though re "On the other hand, playing football at that level is probably hard as shit." The thing is these players are capable of playing football at the level we expect. We have seen both Adebayor and Defoe do it. Dempsey scored 17 goals last season. Why their good form seems impossible to reproduce, all at the same time, is a mystery to me. Well perhaps not - I expect it has something to do with Les Ferdinand and the striking coaches being totally useless but I'm not sure and that's only speculation.

To reiterate - how can Basel come and outplay us at home with a bunch of players most of us probably haven't heard of? It's hard to understand. Something, to me, feels not right and it has done all season, even when we were winning. We've performed very well in the league but in many ways it has been our best players dragging our horrifically bad players along. We aren't a one man team, but Bale, Dembele, Vertonghen, Lennon, Lloris, and Dawson have been papering over the cracks of Adebayor, Defoe, Dempsey, BAE, and at times Naughton and Walker. Occasionally players from the first group even look as bad as those from the second group.

Sorry I'm just spilling my brain out right now because I don't really understand it and it's hard to wrap your head around. This season has been very confusing to me.

 

[Jimmy Greaves]

I dont think we have played a game where we have dominated at all this year? Where as liverpool have gotten better and better , we have been stuck at the same level all season. I not sure how we are still up the top end of the table as we play like my teams on football manager, Like shit.

Whom ever i think bale injury will get our strikers back to scoring, for some reason im optimistic about this.
I think we will improve for the next couple of weeks.

 

[hellava_tough]

Some good points made above

As a footnote I'd also add that we're desperately missing Modric this season; a player who keeps things ticking over by ensuring we have a high % of possession at crucial times of the game

The likes of Dembele and Parker, or even Dembele and Sandro, are solid enough in the middle of the park but they don't dictate the tempo of a game like Modric did

 

[ItsBoris]

I dont think we have played a game where we have dominated at all this year? Where as liverpool have gotten better and better , we have been stuck at the same level all season. I not sure how we are still up the top end of the table as we play like my teams on football manager, Like shit.

Whom ever i think bale injury will get our strikers back to scoring, for some reason im optimistic about this.
I think we will improve for the next couple of weeks.

I think we have, but that's what's weird partly. I thought we dominated Inter at home, for most of the game we dominated Liverpool away, and we were definitely the better team against United at home, and I thought there were a number of other games that we played very well but we've definitely been less dominant since Sandro was injured.

Liverpool are definitely a better attacking team than us since their new signings in January. Since Jan 1 they only have 1 point less than we do and are in 4th in the table in that period. But they've also scored the most goals in the league (28) compared to 17 for us. They average 1 goal scored per game more than us since Jan. 1st. Not hard to understand why - they have Suarez and Sturridge we have Defoe and Adebayor.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

I think what it comes down to is the epl being a bit overrated.

Unless you're Swiss you're unlikely to know any of the Basle players but they finished above Man U last season so they must have had some talent to do that.

I watched a futbol mundial program a few years back that had a feature on Swiss football and they are really making steps as a nation to improve their football and now have very good youth systems. Think they all have to play the same formation or something like that anyway and I'm sure they won one of "u" world or euro titles within the past few years.

If there are any Swiss posters on here maybe they can confirm this as I'm just going on memory.

So to sum up for yesterday's game the team /fans probably thought we beat Inter and Lyon, so Basle shouldn't be as tough.

As for the other games where we look disjointed I'd say the team is still a work in progress. At the start of the season I didn't think we were good enough to finish top 4 after our ins and outs. Our performances haven't really changed my opinion of that but if we play rubbish till the end of the season and still pick up the wins we need I won't complain. We can work on pretty football in pre season but for now it's just about fighting to hold our position by any means necessary.

 

[Spurs1960]

Frankly, I think there are more than a few players that AVB does not want playing for him. Adebayor, Defoe, BAE, and Dempsey are the most obvious, I think. I know that if I were AVB I would harbor ill-will towards Friedel for putting me in a position where I feel obligated to play him when I have a healthy Lloris sitting on the bench. He won't say it, ever, because he knows how damaging losing the locker room can be to a manager. Especially a young one who has been touted predominantly for his tactical nous. He has no historical weight that he can carry around and crush players' objections with. That's a clumsy way of putting it, but what I mean is: he can't use his force of personality or point to his prior successes (like someone like SAF or Wenger or Mourinho could) to silence dissenting voices in the locker room. I bet it's incredibly difficult to earn respect as a coach in any professional football league, especially so with some of the primadonnas that we hear about in the EPL.

Fortunately you are not AVB and he doesn't think that way, if he did he would have to resign immediately as you can't have that level of incompetence running the playing side of a football club.

 

[marion52]

We are not as good as our position in the league intimates. We've scored stunning goals that have papered over some lucklustre performances. Our squad does not have good depth and the worry is that won't change much as Levy is not one to splash the cash.
When we lose a player like Sandro there just isn't a similar replacement and we all know a team can't rely on a few players to make the season as injuries happen.
Our best hope for the future is that AVB can bring on some of our youngsters to plug the gaps and move on certain players.

 

[ItsBoris]

We are not as good as our position in the league intimates. We've scored stunning goals that have papered over some lucklustre performances. Our squad does not have good depth and the worry is that won't change much as Levy is not one to splash the cash.
When we lose a player like Sandro there just isn't a similar replacement and we all know a team can't rely on a few players to make the season as injuries happen.
Our best hope for the future is that AVB can bring on some of our youngsters to plug the gaps and move on certain players.

The annoying thing though is that a lot of times the replacements look like they've never seen a football before (at least in Sandro's case Parker is a competent replacement). They often look totally incompetent and they shouldn't be THAT bad.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Frankly, I think there are more than a few players that AVB does not want playing for him. Adebayor, Defoe, BAE, and Dempsey are the most obvious, I think. I know that if I were AVB I would harbor ill-will towards Friedel for putting me in a position where I feel obligated to play him when I have a healthy Lloris sitting on the bench. He won't say it, ever, because he knows how damaging losing the locker room can be to a manager. Especially a young one who has been touted predominantly for his tactical nous. He has no historical weight that he can carry around and crush players' objections with. That's a clumsy way of putting it, but what I mean is: he can't use his force of personality or point to his prior successes (like someone like SAF or Wenger or Mourinho could) to silence dissenting voices in the locker room. I bet it's incredibly difficult to earn respect as a coach in any professional football league, especially so with some of the primadonnas that we hear about in the EPL.

I'd say almost all of that is nonsense. Boas loves Defoe and was comparing him to Falcao after the first 2 months.

And AVB harboring ill will towards Friedal cause he has to pick him?! What on earth? Thank goodness you aren't AVB otherwise we'd have an unprofessional manager who'd ruin the team with his small minded-ness.

 

[punky]

I dont think we have played a game where we have dominated at all this year? Where as liverpool have gotten better and better , we have been stuck at the same level all season. I not sure how we are still up the top end of the table as we play like my teams on football manager, Like shit.

Whom ever i think bale injury will get our strikers back to scoring, for some reason im optimistic about this.
I think we will improve for the next couple of weeks.

I think the only games we have were both the Aston Villa games.

I've posted before that despite our league position, we've generally played pretty dire compared to under Harry, even when we win.

 

[Jimmy Greaves]

I think the only games we have were both the Aston Villa games.

I've posted before that despite our league position, we've generally played pretty dire compared to under Harry, even when we win.

Yes, And im not sure why? is AVB really not that good? how the fuck does liverpool play like they are under " Their average Manager" Maybe AVB really isn't all that? Or will AVB burst into the magician next season?

 

[ItsBoris]

Yes, And im not sure why? is AVB really not that good? how the fuck does liverpool play like they are under " Their average Manager" Maybe AVB really isn't all that? Or will AVB burst into the magician next season?

People have short memories imo but we were a lot worse under Harry actually, just look at match threads from the 2nd half of last season. We were only good in the first half of the season. We were absolutely woeful in the 2nd half of the season and we always looked like a shambles especially defensively. And that was with Modric and VDV both in the team.

Idk about AVB yet, I'm guessing he's prioritizing results over style (Rodgers did the opposite but look at where we are in the table compared to Liverpool). To be honest he doesn't have much to work with, for instance, can you name one top class passer of the ball in our squad? Someone whose strength is creativity? If not how then are we supposed to play that kind of football if we don't have the players for it?

 

[punky]

Yes, And im not sure why? is AVB really not that good? how the fuck does liverpool play like they are under " Their average Manager" Maybe AVB really isn't all that? Or will AVB burst into the magician next season?

I think the biggest problem seems to be motivation.

Tactics, subs and lineups aren't blowing me away. Yet we are doing well but mostly due to Bale.

 

[Spurvert]

Something that has been bugging me lately is those who say we are 2/3 signings away from challenging for the title. This couldn't be further from the truth. We are 2/3 signing from genuinely challenging for 3rd as, in my opinion, we'll be lucky to get 4th. I may have been guilty for getting over excited in the past but, as much as I love AVB and think he is the right man for the job, our squad has mostly been saved from the microscope by Bale (especially of late)

I fear a few of our players have been found out (Walker, BAE - who has been shocking), some are not good enough for what we want to achieve (Parker, Dempsey, Gallas) and some look like they couldn't give a flying fck (Adebayor)

We are so far from challenging for the title. This isn't knee jerk but a fact. We are once again paying for a lack of activity in the January window. I feel a little for AVB because, with a little backing and faith, we could have all but wrapped up 4th by now.

We have been terribly unlucky with injuries this season and there have been some real positives (Bale, Lloris, Vertonghen and Dawson - all outstanding) but if we really want to be considered a threat to the top 3 places in the EPL then it's going to be a long term job.

I have us finishing 5th this season regardless of injuries because a) we look tired and b) some of our squad look like the can barely put their shirt on the right way round, let alone play a game of football

All credit to Basel last night. They deserved a few more goals and will go through. Arrogance had us winning that game because it's a team from Switzerland. A team from Switzerland who looked a damn sight better than us.

We've got a long way to go

 

[Cavehillspur]

9 wins and 2 draws in 16 away league games this season, 2nd best record in the league this season after United, we must be doing something right.

We mightn't be dominating games but by and large we are grinding out results, if you look at the vast majority of Uniteds results this season they have won by the odd goal in them.

Agree though we need a bit of an overhaul in certain areas this summer, squad depth needs to be increased, whether that means a mix of youth promoted from our U21s and from outside so be it, its clear we need wing cover badly.

 

[parklane_B39-R16-S25]

Bale was dogshit last night...probably had about 5 touches all game. You have to give credit to Basle...top side who did their job by keeping Bale quiet and their attacking players always attacked in packs. Defo the best team we have played this season. It's not always the players fault

 

[Sum Monsterism]

the thing bugging me is the bloody moaners. I expect to see full page apologies to avb when things go right - and that doesn't have to be this year or even next... get a freaking grip.

 

[Jimmy Greaves]

People have short memories imo but we were a lot worse under Harry actually, just look at match threads from the 2nd half of last season. We were only good in the first half of the season. We were absolutely woeful in the 2nd half of the season and we always looked like a shambles especially defensively. And that was with Modric and VDV both in the team.

Idk about AVB yet, I'm guessing he's prioritizing results over style (Rodgers did the opposite but look at where we are in the table compared to Liverpool). To be honest he doesn't have much to work with, for instance, can you name one top class passer of the ball in our squad? Someone whose strength is creativity? If not how then are we supposed to play that kind of football if we don't have the players for it?

True but liverpool could still catch us, im still waiting for another game like that beating of new castle we gave em, Excellent football we played.