Player Watch Player Watch - Lucas Moura

[duvfromabuv]

I know exactly why bolsonaro is popular as I've been told by the multitude of Brazilians I work with.

He's the "tough on crime" candidate - in a country that has an appalling record on criminal justice. For Brazilians today crime and public safety is an exponentially bigger problem than gay rights. Therefore, the guy who solved the bigger problem gets their support.

One of my colleagues who is gay and lives in Brazil told me he supported Bolsonaro because whilst he was anti gay he was making Brazil a safer place. "I can't be gay if I'm dead because someone has killed me for my mobile phone so it's an easy choice".

From our western perch, I think we sometimes fail to see the context of how these "strongman" figures get their support even when they have views that we consider regressive and backwards. Simply because there are other issues that their public generally considers to be of greater importance.

Especially as one of our other Brazilian players Emerson was almost killed very recently. I wonder if people would have the same view if he was?

 

[isaac94]

many Brazilian footballers support Bolsonaro, especially religious ones, Alisson, kaka, rivaldo, even ronaldinho works for him now.
i dont support him, but he offers security to Brazils financial elite, which Lucas is part of

 

[MichaelPawson]

His latest tweets are wildly misguided. It’s tough for me to share as I’m on my phone, but comparing any ideology to Naziism is incredibly dumb when you represent a fan base that’s received as much Anti-Semitic abuse as ours has historically. He needs to pump the breaks or he will lose lots of fans, myself included.

 

[Blaugrana]

Marseille fans the other night doing Nazi salutes, tearing down pride flags, chanting about gas chambers... what are they some sort of communists?

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

I agree with this - Bolsonaro is clearly very popular with many Brazilians - as much as we might not like that it is a fact. What a players personal political/religious views may be, this is totally irrelevant to playing football and is essentially none of our business.

He is way down in the polls for the upcoming election. The problem is he says he's tough on crime but like most corrupt leaders he is on the take from the very people he claims to want to imprison. Brazil is incredibly corrupt and he's no different to any other politician there. Wouldn't surprise me if after he loses the election he ends up in jail.

The reason some fans find it hard to stomach Moura's views is because they are so bigoted. He's here to play football, I'm amazed the club hasn't told him to keep his political views to himself, its a headache they just don't need.

 

[Locotoro]

Marseille fans the other night doing Nazi salutes, tearing down pride flags, chanting about gas chambers... what are they some sort of communists?

I think we have to bear in mind that the term communism is a highly loaded label that carries many connotations.

It's quite possible that in Brazil they identify Communism as authoritarian and anti-neoliberalism because the Brazilian Communist party and the movement started by Lula (that Lucas refers to) is exceptionally socialist in their economic policies and highly in favour of invasive government market intervention. Unfortunately, for a country and culture like Brazil that means huge government and bureaucratic corruption and loss of civil liberties.

When Brazilians refer to nazism and communism they are unlikely to be thinking about concentration camps and Hitler but other things shaped by their localized view of the world

 

[rossdapep]

Saw his comments and knew people would be on his back without having any idea of what goes on in Brazil.

Bolsonaro is an arsehole, for sure.


But let me tell a story before you go on at Lucas and why some people back him.

I was in the North East of Brazil a couple of months and our taxi driver to the hotel told us a story we simply didn't expect.

For years the people in the region of Natal were told by Lula (that's Bolsonaro's opposition) that they would fix their water issue as some people did not have access to running water. Lula made excuse after excuse but promised it was coming, it never did.

Bolsonaro came into power and within months he fixed it and now the people have running water.

Second story. I know a British guy who owns a poussada (beach bnb) and he hired some locals. Every once and a while one of these people would just be crap at their job or fail to show for their shifts. when the owner went to discipline or fire them he'd be threatened with lawsuits because Lula made it easy for employees so much so that employers had their hands tied.

These are just a couple of seasons why people back Bolsonaro over Lula.

Yes he's a shit. But when the opposition have proven in the past to make others' lives tough, you can see why some support him.

Brazil is a complex country, especially when politics comes into play.

And if anyone has listened to Lucas talk or seen him on the Spurs play thing, you'll see a genuinely good lad.

Getting sick of this world where people are judged on their political beliefs or silly mistakes, despite actually being good people at heart.

 

[C0YS]

Genuine question.

Why is it so important to people to have a footballer play for their team that shares their political, socio-economic or religious viewpoint even though these people have come from exceptionally different upbringings, difficult environments and cultures that are completely different from our own relative privilege in the western world?

If you go over to R/COYS they practically want to hang the guy for his view which is ironic seeing as they are mostly proclaiming themselves to be liberal progressives.

Isn't it obvious that harsh environments create harsh viewpoints. And the only way to change that viewpoint is to expose the person to all the good that is within that group that he/she so ignorantly is against. Under the guise of freedom of speech Lucas is surely entitled to his opinion and to share it when he is asked so long as he's not inciting hatred and violence. Otherwise, I'd question which approach was closer to being authoritarian.

Saying "get him out of my club" is only polarising the issue more. Whereas opening dialogue and educating people on multiple perspectives is much more beneficial and effective.

Not directed at anyone here. I'm just not a fan of cancel culture and the response on Reddit and Twitter

I mean the right for people to share their dislike someone for their viewpoints or preferring someone to not have particular viewpoints at the club is very much freedom of speech in action. To create actual policies to prevent players with particular view points from playing is a different thing, but not necessarily authoritarian at all. There are always limits in society, where you draw them depends on multiple factors.

I don't necessarily agree that harsh environments produce harsh viewpoints. I guess it depends. In some areas of Brazil many would find how women treat infants shocking but it makes sense in the context of the harsh realities of life. I don't, however, see how supporting bolsonaro has much to do with the harshness of your geospecific environment.

Bolsonaro is, fundamentally, a candidate supported by the wealthy and middle classes. However, he has strong working class support who are attracted to his antiestablishment rhetoric. But this isn't a phenomenon exclusive to non western countries, Trump and to a lesser extent Boris Johnson both benefited from this too. It's worth noting that Bolsonaro is actually polling higher in middle class voters than Lula, but is down more than 10% points primarily because of working class voters.

Christianity is the same, it plays a massive role in most countries, the UK is a remarkably secular country but in almost every other country religion plays a major part in politics. More specifically particular religious communities vote according to community lines.

What I'm trying to say is while we should respect that different upbringings do affect the way that you build viewpoints, we shouldn't be condescending and a create this vision of these uneducated backward people who don't have the ability to form rational view points.

Now, Lucas is actually a footballer with money. Like many footballers with money Bolsonaro is very attractive and makes rational sense from a material point of view. Furthermore, Lucas grew up in a super religious background, beyond any norm and is part of a conservative Christian community. It's worth noting he didn't grow up in extreme poverty (unlike Richarlison say) though certainly wasn't particularly rich either.

Now I guess the point I'm saying is I'm not surprised Lucas has terrible politics, and supports a President who, Franky, should be in prison based on how he's governed. But it obviously doesn't paint a positive picture of him and he doesn't get a free pass here.

Now, I'll always admire him as a footballer, and I'm not going to want him to leave or support him less. But of course people's political opinions do put a negative taint on them,and it is disappointing to hear.

 

[C0YS]

Saw his comments and knew people would be on his back without having any idea of what goes on in Brazil.

Bolsonaro is an arsehole, for sure.


But let me tell a story before you go on at Lucas and why some people back him.

I was in the North East of Brazil a couple of months and our taxi driver to the hotel told us a story we simply didn't expect.

For years the people in the region of Natal were told by Lula (that's Bolsonaro's opposition) that they would fix their water issue as some people did not have access to running water. Lula made excuse after excuse but promised it was coming, it never did.

Bolsonaro came into power and within months he fixed it and now the people have running water.

Second story. I know a British guy who owns a poussada (beach bnb) and he hired some locals. Every once and a while one of these people would just be crap at their job or fail to show for their shifts. when the owner went to discipline or fire them he'd be threatened with lawsuits because Lula made it easy for employees so much so that employers had their hands tied.

These are just a couple of seasons why people back Bolsonaro over Lula.

Yes he's a shit. But when the opposition have proven in the past to make others' lives tough, you can see why some support him.

Brazil is a complex country, especially when politics comes into play.

And if anyone has listened to Lucas talk or seen him on the Spurs play thing, you'll see a genuinely good lad.

Getting sick of this world where people are judged on their political beliefs or silly mistakes, despite actually being good people at heart.

I mean they've never run against each other, because Lula was put in prison in a sham trail, but also was last president in 2010. Of course political beliefs matter, because politics isn't separate from daily life and to separate that is really part of the problem with how politics is run.

But you can be nice and pleasent and a literal fascist who supports genocide. Being nice and pleasant as person is irrelevant to being good at heart. Not that I really believe anyone is good at heart anyway.

People and politics are complicated things. Brazilian politics is very complicated and people vote for candidates for all kinds of reasons. Lucas is a religious nut who doesn't want the government to steal his money because he equates it with fascism, a very common view point from rich Latin Americans. But, as you say, it doesn't mean that he would support Bolsonaros tacit support for what survival international calls a genocide of brazil's indignious population for example.

 

[HildoSpur]

I think we have to bear in mind that the term communism is a highly loaded label that carries many connotations.

It's quite possible that in Brazil they identify Communism as authoritarian and anti-neoliberalism because the Brazilian Communist party and the movement started by Lula (that Lucas refers to) is exceptionally socialist in their economic policies and highly in favour of invasive government market intervention. Unfortunately, for a country and culture like Brazil that means huge government and bureaucratic corruption and loss of civil liberties.

When Brazilians refer to nazism and communism they are unlikely to be thinking about concentration camps and Hitler but other things shaped by their localized view of the world

This is a great point. Look at the way Russia and Putin are using the term 'Nazism' to define what they are supposedly fighting against in Ukraine. What they actually mean is Western culture and they link it with the fight against the Nazi's in WW2 because it felt like an existential threat to them at that point and they are trying to make their population believe this new conflict is the same.

When Moura says Communism he may be thinking of something quite different to what we would define it as due to cultural differences.

 

[easley91]

Lucas has always come across as a good lad. He has always been pro Spurs (moreso than those who actually came through the academy). He has always been the welcome party for Brazilians at our club since his arrival. Think people jumped on him without doing the research of what is happening in his country.

 

[HodisGawd]

Lucas has always come across as a good lad. He has always been pro Spurs (moreso than those who actually came through the academy). He has always been the welcome party for Brazilians at our club since his arrival. Think people jumped on him without doing the research of what is happening in his country.

Don't patronise people. Bolsonaro is a stain on humanity, end of. You don't have to be Brazilian ro realise that. Just because someone smiles and likes the things you like, does not mean they are a good person.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Genuine question.

Why is it so important to people to have a footballer play for their team that shares their political, socio-economic or religious viewpoint even though these people have come from exceptionally different upbringings, difficult environments and cultures that are completely different from our own relative privilege in the western world?

If you go over to R/COYS they practically want to hang the guy for his view which is ironic seeing as they are mostly proclaiming themselves to be liberal progressives.

Isn't it obvious that harsh environments create harsh viewpoints. And the only way to change that viewpoint is to expose the person to all the good that is within that group that he/she so ignorantly is against. Under the guise of freedom of speech Lucas is surely entitled to his opinion and to share it when he is asked so long as he's not inciting hatred and violence. Otherwise, I'd question which approach was closer to being authoritarian.

Saying "get him out of my club" is only polarising the issue more. Whereas opening dialogue and educating people on multiple perspectives is much more beneficial and effective.

Not directed at anyone here. I'm just not a fan of cancel culture and the response on Reddit and Twitter

Great post

 

[Locotoro]

I mean the right for people to share their dislike someone for their viewpoints or preferring someone to not have particular viewpoints at the club is very much freedom of speech in action. To create actual policies to prevent players with particular view points from playing is a different thing, but not necessarily authoritarian at all. There are always limits in society, where you draw them depends on multiple factors.

I don't necessarily agree that harsh environments produce harsh viewpoints. I guess it depends. In some areas of Brazil many would find how women treat infants shocking but it makes sense in the context of the harsh realities of life. I don't, however, see how supporting bolsonaro has much to do with the harshness of your geospecific environment.

Bolsonaro is, fundamentally, a candidate supported by the wealthy and middle classes. However, he has strong working class support who are attracted to his antiestablishment rhetoric. But this isn't a phenomenon exclusive to non western countries, Trump and to a lesser extent Boris Johnson both benefited from this too. It's worth noting that Bolsonaro is actually polling higher in middle class voters than Lula, but is down more than 10% points primarily because of working class voters.

Christianity is the same, it plays a massive role in most countries, the UK is a remarkably secular country but in almost every other country religion plays a major part in politics. More specifically particular religious communities vote according to community lines.

What I'm trying to say is while we should respect that different upbringings do affect the way that you build viewpoints, we shouldn't be condescending and a create this vision of these uneducated backward people who don't have the ability to form rational view points.

Now, Lucas is actually a footballer with money. Like many footballers with money Bolsonaro is very attractive and makes rational sense from a material point of view. Furthermore, Lucas grew up in a super religious background, beyond any norm and is part of a conservative Christian community. It's worth noting he didn't grow up in extreme poverty (unlike Richarlison say) though certainly wasn't particularly rich either.

Now I guess the point I'm saying is I'm not surprised Lucas has terrible politics, and supports a President who, Franky, should be in prison based on how he's governed. But it obviously doesn't paint a positive picture of him and he doesn't get a free pass here.

Now, I'll always admire him as a footballer, and I'm not going to want him to leave or support him less. But of course people's political opinions do put a negative taint on them,and it is disappointing to hear.

I liked you post.

Even though I disagree in some parts. I liked it because this is exactly the type of conversation and debate that should be generated from such a topic - so kudos to you friend.

The reason why I disagree is because you're still using your own perspective on their viewpoints being backwards. I don't believe at all that the people who support Bolsonaro suffer from a lack of education or hold backwards views. They simply have a very different focus to what someone in our shoes would have.
When you come from a society where extreme poverty, extreme violence and crime and fantastic (not in a good way) disparity between rich and poor your daily grind will be about making sure your kids don't go hungry or that they have a roof over their head and that they are safe. LGBTQ rights would be considered a privilege in such circumstances. Any person who is going to give you a fighting chance is going to get your support. It's not backwards it's actually the best evolutionary choice.

We in the UK have been very lucky to live in a country where the level of relative poverty is low and where their are safeguards in place to stop people falling through the net at the same time people who do well are still able to live a lifestyle of their choosing to compliment their own success. We debate issues such as LGBTQ rights, animal rights, environment waste and other civic freedoms etc. With the cost of living crisis becoming worse and people (including middle income families) starting to struggle to make ends meet I can make a prediction that these rights issues that we have been discussing will very quickly disappear from public discourse and we'll be talking about poverty, helping families and the elderly survive the winter. We'll probably find a scapegoat like bankers or the energy companies and get angry at their profits and push the government to stop them from sucking us dry of every loose change we have. Our priorities will change and it won't be because we're backwards or uneducated, it will be because we're trying to survive.

 

[HildoSpur]

Don't patronise people. Bolsonaro is a stain on humanity, end of. You don't have to be Brazilian ro realise that. Just because someone smiles and likes the things you like, does not mean they are a good person.

What do you define as a 'good person'? Someone who agrees with your own personal view of the world? Perhaps you need to consider that human beings are complex and can have certain thoughts and views that you disagree with but can at the same time be very decent people. This black and white thinking is dangerous.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I fear this is cancel culture at its best, we can see from years of Lucas moura interviews and videos that he’s a good lad and well liked, but one not so good tweet or comment or risky view goes into the public and every man and their dog want to jump on him and ‘never see him play for spurs again’ etc.

Some on here and on the internet or generally will know more than others about the situation in Brazil for sure but no-one has lived Lucas Moura’s life in his shoes to truly understand why he believes what he does or why he supports the political party in Brazil he does.

He might not be perfect but I think it’s fairly clear from many examples he’s a likeable kind person, it’s not like he’s come out and said he actually supports Nazism or something blatantly terrible, as I said they weren’t the best comments and probably a bit inaccurate although his view/version of communism is likely different to our view of it, but I’m getting sick of this cancel culture where everyone thinks they know best and are extremely judging of others, it’s becoming too far towards a world where no-one is allowed to say anything or have any of their own views.

??

 

[HodisGawd]

What do you define as a 'good person'? Someone who agrees with your own personal view of the world? Perhaps you need to consider that human beings are complex and can have certain thoughts and views that you disagree with but can at the same time be very decent people. This black and white thinking is dangerous.

I don't define a good person. But someone who supports a man widely accused of genocide and crimes against humanity, is either ignorant or unlikely to be a good person. You don't have to dig deep with Bolsonaro to find torture, corruption and abuse of power. Being against genocide is not merely "my personal view of the world". You, however, sound ok with that.

 

[JCRD]

Don't patronise people. Bolsonaro is a stain on humanity, end of. You don't have to be Brazilian ro realise that. Just because someone smiles and likes the things you like, does not mean they are a good person.

I dont know much about the political situation in Brazil etc but does it even matter what a players political beliefs are... I dont think Lucas should be talking about it anyways but im also up for players having freedom of speech.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

Unless Lucas has come out with any specific views of his own that are beyond the pale, I won’t judge him too harshly for this. It’s obviously disappointing because Bolsonaro is a genuine villain, but I can’t put myself in Lucas’ shoes and I won’t pretend that I can. From what we’ve seen he is a decent guy on a personal level and loads of decent people support questionable political figures.

 

[Aleks]

He can say what he wants and have any beliefs he wants, but people can also react to what he says and form opinions on his statements and share them freely.

Freedom of speech means that he won't be arrested and imprisoned for the things he says. Not that people will dislike him for them.