Opinion of AVB in hindsight?

[HildoSpur]

I was an AVB supporter and was sorry to see him go although I was a bit disappointed with the style of football he got us playing. With hindsight I actually think I would rather have Poch and am happy enough.

 

[CowInAComa]

looks like the BBC are getting in on the discussion.

 

[Khilari]

I was gutted when we signed AVB, but he came across as someone who had a secret master plan and would prove his worth. To be fair to him, he was massively under supported in terms of transfers, but he inevitably seemed a computer sim manager. Where everything probably sounded good on paper, on mathematical models and iPads. He probably kicks ass on FM2015.

But we played such turgid, slow paced dull football it killed me.

With MP, whilst I agree with the OP that he has benefitted from lower expectations, we haven't played well this term and it's been disappointing to see our season peter out the way it has.

But here he is, he has to stay and be supported by Daniel Levy if we are to progress.

 

[eddiebailey]

It is pretty clear that the board had become disillusioned with his brand of football while his attitude and behaviour had made his position untenable. The repeated drubbings just brought matters to a head.

At no point did I call for his departure but when it came I shed no tears. Frankly I never got what it was about this arrogant petulant bully that people found so attractive. It could not be anything they saw on the pitch.

 

[robbiedee]

...absolutely nothing has changed...with AVB I had to turn my TV right up to hear his post match interviews on MOTD and now I have to do the same with Poch...in both cases, even with the TV volume on 50+ I can't understand a word they are/were saying...

...Tim Sherwood on the other hand...clear as a bell (end)...just a shame about the words that came out

 

[aliyid]

Only just stumbled upon this thread and made me think of AVB and his impact on Spurs. Thinking back now I actually think that he's responsible for a lot of what is wrong with us at the moment (which is strange because up until now I've always thought he was decent for us and had a good record even if the football was mind-numbingly boring).

The biggest change pre and post AVB I would say are slow build up play and inverted wingers. This has been a disaster for Spurs, overloading the central areas and making us easy to defend against.

I'm not sure if it's a unique characteristic of the premier league but with the trend of most teams now playing with 5 in the midfield it creates too much congestion and we don't stretch defences enough to force opportunities (the patient build-up play works in leagues like Portugal & Russia where opposition will make mistakes but in the Prem you need to force a mistake by applying pressure and knocking defences out of their comfort zone).

He brought the best out of Bale but in doing so we'd built a culture of not taking responsibility, keep it safe and leave it up to one player. When Bale left nobody was willing to step up and take on that responsibility apart from Townsend who tried to be 'Bale Mk2' but unfortunatly he isn't consistent enough to perform at that level (he'd be great in France or Holland).

I believe Poch is turning this around and the summer transfer window is crucial for him to clear out the guys playing well within themselves (Paulinho, Dembele, Kaboul, etc...) and sign players that can take us forward.

 

[DOX]

Quite clearly attempting to draw comparisons between AVB and Poch...

Well, yea... But it was merely meant light-heartedly. No doubt, Poch's a step up from AVB, but I do see some similarities in Poch's rigid way of playing (sometimes).

Next season, will be decisive, when* Levy gets the players pinpointed by Poch and his team.

*crap: a big "if"!

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Guuffffaaawwww as if any more proof were indeed needed.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32780855


"I don't think he is able to work with top clubs."

 

[mattstev2000]

Guuffffaaawwww as if any more proof were indeed needed.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32780855


"I don't think he is able to work with top clubs."

Yep. The opinion of ex Zenit footballer Boris Chukhlov is the be all and end all in this discussion. If Boris doesn't like his style of play then I'm totally convinced. Shut down the thread boys.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

And your underestimation of anything not "English" is a symptom of 1) Why Brits are viewed as wankers abroad, 2) Why England achieves the square root of fuck all.

While the Russian league isn't the strongest in Europe, its not the weakest, and to be so dismissive is pretty ugly and ignorant. If you don't like him, fine, but no need to be all rabid mouth frothingly UKIP about it

Go wind ya neck back in. There is fuck all "anything not English" in that post of mine.

You take life way too seriously, and need a reality check. AVB couldn't get a job anywhere in England, so does that make the FA or all the English clubs "ugly and ignorant"

Fucks sake.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Yep. The opinion of ex Zenit footballer Boris Chukhlov is the be all and end all in this discussion. If Boris doesn't like his style of play then I'm totally convinced. Shut down the thread boys.

So if Ardliles or Klinsmann for arguments sake were to say similar about any Spurs manager, you'd just ignore his remarks?

 

[Lilbaz]

Yep. The opinion of ex Zenit footballer Boris Chukhlov is the be all and end all in this discussion. If Boris doesn't like his style of play then I'm totally convinced. Shut down the thread boys.

Would come across as a sarcastic post if so many people didn't agree with Chukhlov.

 

[Shea]

Yep. The opinion of ex Zenit footballer Boris Chukhlov is the be all and end all in this discussion. If Boris doesn't like his style of play then I'm totally convinced. Shut down the thread boys.

There's no need to resort to childishness

No one said it was the end of the discussion - it is however supporting evidence that shouldn't be dismissed either

It's the opinion of someone who no doubt watches a lot more Zenit games than any of us and is therefore likely to be better informed

That doesn't mean it is conclusive and you and all the other AVB fan boys are free to disagree still - but it fair to quote the man's opinion in support of our own opinion because he is well placed to comment on the situation

 

[mattstev2000]

There's no need to resort to childishness

No one said it was the end of the discussion - it is however supporting evidence that shouldn't be dismissed either

It's the opinion of someone who no doubt watches a lot more Zenit games than any of us and is therefore likely to be better informed

That doesn't mean it is conclusive and you and all the other AVB fan boys are free to disagree still - but it fair to quote the man's opinion in support of our own opinion because he is well placed to comment on the situation

The implication of 'Guuffffaaawwww as if any more proof were indeed needed' is that in his mind that is the end of the discussion. No more proof is needed. Boris has spoken.

No one said Boris wasn't allowed an opinion. I was commenting on the dopey lead in to it.

Oh, and to suggest my post was childish but the lead in to the original wasn't just highlights your personal bias about the topic.

Having said that I am retreating to the position of reader/non poster - I've had these arguments about our recent managers before and I know neither side of the fence (myself included) are really ever going to change their opinions...

 

[Main Man]

I liked AVB, a lot.

He led us to our highest points total after losing our three best players in Modric, King and Van der Vaart.

He then helped develop Gareth Bale into the most expensive player in the world and - I have no doubt - would have led us 5-7th quite comfortably despite yet again losing his best player (again).

If the players we bought were down to AVB then I can see why he needed a Director of Football. However, his team selections would suggest they weren't and I very much appreciated the fact that he valued the team over individuals. It would be nice to hear who he wanted and whom he didn't etc but I don't suppose we will ever hear that because he had far too much class for that.

And that is ultimately why I liked him most. His appraisal of our fans was absolutely spot on, even if it did contribute to his demise in the end. He had visibly learnt from his experiences with Chelsea, and although always taking responsibility for results I thought he always made it clear that he wasn't given the control he wanted and needed.

In terms of philosophy, I found it a lot easier to identify with than Poch's. I saw a logic to what he was doing and I would watch us thinking 'are we going to be able to break them down' - which was still frustrating at times - but I certainly didn't worry about getting completely outplayed at home by the likes of West Brom, Stoke, Palace, Leicester, Newcastle, Hull and Villa etc like this season.

AVB was too good for this club, and it is no coincidence that has delivered a trophy in his first full season post Spurs.

He must look at us now with a bit of humour, because we are more boring, fragile and further away from the Champions League than we ever were under him - and they were the areas of critique aimed at him more than any other.

 

[DOX]

Won a trophy, but the criticism is the same...

"...Zenit on the other hand score a goal and then the defenders start hoofing the ball. It is boring and nauseating."

Sounds familiar?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32780855

 

[michaelden]

Won a trophy, but the criticism is the same...

"...Zenit on the other hand score a goal and then the defenders start hoofing the ball. It is boring and nauseating."

Sounds familiar?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32780855

I think that as soon as he was labelled anti-football, it was a tag that would follow him everywhere. A bit like Bale being a diver. He didn't dive often, but once labelled as such, it was open season on him as the refs just wouldn't blow.

 

[Shea]

The implication of 'Guuffffaaawwww as if any more proof were indeed needed' is that in his mind that is the end of the discussion. No more proof is needed. Boris has spoken.

No one said Boris wasn't allowed an opinion. I was commenting on the dopey lead in to it.

Oh, and to suggest my post was childish but the lead in to the original wasn't just highlights your personal bias about the topic.

Having said that I am retreating to the position of reader/non poster - I've had these arguments about our recent managers before and I know neither side of the fence (myself included) are really ever going to change their opinions...

I really don't have a personal bias, I have a personal opinion

The way you worded your reply came across like a little kid trying to avoid the actual debate with sarcasm and dismissive behaviour

I'm talking about the opinion of the ex Zenit player - you're acting like it means nothing when unless you watch a lot of Zenit for some reason I'd say his opinion is likely to be more informed than ours. Now as a fan he may have bias or over zealous opinions but he's clearly seen more of the team play than us and his opinion is to be taken in to account

It's in line with what I said earlier, so confirmation bias perhaps I am more incline to be receptive to what he says but I fully accept he is just one man with one opinion and it can't be taken as gospel evidence to end the discussion. It does however serve as reasonably strong evidence that there is merit to what I and others have said when suggesting AVB's league win should be put in to context (a suggestion that was dismissed by other posters - well now there is credible evidence from a first hand observer and that should at least make it a valid suggestion if not a conclusive one)

 

[punkisback]

It is pretty clear that the board had become disillusioned with his brand of football while his attitude and behaviour had made his position untenable. The repeated drubbings just brought matters to a head.

At no point did I call for his departure but when it came I shed no tears. Frankly I never got what it was about this arrogant petulant bully that people found so attractive. It could not be anything they saw on the pitch.

Is that second part about Sherwood? Because you're describing him to a tee.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

There's no need to resort to childishness

No one said it was the end of the discussion - it is however supporting evidence that shouldn't be dismissed either

It's the opinion of someone who no doubt watches a lot more Zenit games than any of us and is therefore likely to be better informed

That doesn't mean it is conclusive and you and all the other AVB fan boys are free to disagree still - but it fair to quote the man's opinion in support of our own opinion because he is well placed to comment on the situation

Yet Boris Chukhlov, who won the Soviet title with Zenit in 1984, also claims Villas-Boas is not good enough to manage a top European club.

A pretty good judge of the club one would think?