Nicolò Zaniolo

[Trix]

Ok boomer…

Nah mate not quite. Fortunately though I was born long enough ago that we could appreciate what a player did without having to look up how good he is based on how fast he can run a computer game.

 

[Timberwolf]

Kulu's stats weren't that good for Juve but I thought he looked like a great signing.

Equally I don't think Zaniolo looks worth the money and all my concerns are the exact same concerns Roma fans have about him.

Are we not allowed to have opinions on players if we haven't seen them 20 times? Not claiming to be an expert and will happily be proved wrong - it's just an opinion based on the limited information I have.

 

[Harrier]

Luka Modric

Exactly who I was thinking of, or Dembele.

 

[DodgyLasagne]

1,000,000% spot on.

Stats/schmats.

I think Ginola once had a season for us where he only scored about 6 goals but was our player of the season absolutely incredible player but these days someone would never watch him play, look on transfer market to see his ‘stats’ and write him off.

Eye test always was and always will be the best way to judge a player.

What if Zaniolo is worse using the eye test because the stats don’t show how many promising positions he messes up due to over-dribbling

Watching Kulusevski today reminded me why I’m against this transfer. Close to £50m for a guy who just isn’t as good as Kulu. Can you think of a single match situation where you’d rather have him on the pitch than Deki? It just feels off.

 

[double0]

What if Zaniolo is worse using the eye test because the stats don’t show how many promising positions he messes up due to over-dribbling

Watching Kulusevski today reminded me why I’m against this transfer. Close to £50m for a guy who just isn’t as good as Kulu. Can you think of a single match situation where you’d rather have him on the pitch than Deki? It just feels off.

That's not how you should be looking at this. We could have Kulu Richarlison Zaniolo up top with Kane and Son resting .

Zaniolo would be a brilliant addition imo... competition would be white hot.

 

[double0]

But unlike Richarlison who is a Prem-proven goalscorer who can play both with and instead of Kane...

Zaniolo needs a lot of seasoning and a lot of development. He also ain't got the versatility to play in a withdrawn role, I guess maybe he could play wingback. I mean he just doesn't change much from Kulu, he's actually worse against a low block, and he desperately needs time for development like Boris Johnson needs a shower.

Just doesn't make sense with our goals, I'm not going to apologize for being harsh. We've got a real chance of success this season and he feels like an odd fit.

Is there any other player you'd like ahead of Zaniolo?

 

[Trix]

What if Zaniolo is worse using the eye test because the stats don’t show how many promising positions he messes up due to over-dribbling

Watching Kulusevski today reminded me why I’m against this transfer. Close to £50m for a guy who just isn’t as good as Kulu. Can you think of a single match situation where you’d rather have him on the pitch than Deki? It just feels off.

And if Kulu gets injured or needs a rest? It's clear a player with his attributes are important to how we play. Holding the ball up wide, and being able to drive at players and into the box is clearly part of our game plan under Conte.

I'll add to that Kulu was nothing more than a bit part player at Juve, not because he wasn't good but because his attributes didn't fit their style. Conte saw what he could be, rather than seeing a player who wasn't setting the world alight.

That's what it's about, seeing a player with the right attributes and qualities for his way of playing. Not identifying players with good numbers and trying to shoehorn them in when they aren't suited to playing his way.

 

[Scot-Spur]

But unlike Richarlison who is a Prem-proven goalscorer who can play both with and instead of Kane...

Zaniolo needs a lot of seasoning and a lot of development. He also ain't got the versatility to play in a withdrawn role, I guess maybe he could play wingback. I mean he just doesn't change much from Kulu, he's actually worse against a low block, and he desperately needs time for development like Boris Johnson needs a shower.

Just doesn't make sense with our goals, I'm not going to apologize for being harsh. We've got a real chance of success this season and he feels like an odd fit.

How do you know he wouldn’t take to the league like Kulu has?

 

[Impspur1]

And if Kulu gets injured or needs a rest? It's clear a player with his attributes are important to how we play. Holding the ball up wide, and being able to drive at players and into the box is clearly part of our game plan under Conte.

I'll add to that Kulu was nothing more than a bit part player at Juve, not because he wasn't good but because his attributes didn't fit their style. Conte saw what he could be, rather than seeing a player who wasn't setting the world alight.

That's what it's about, seeing a player with the right attributes and qualities for his way of playing. Not identifying players with good numbers and trying to shoehorn them in when they aren't suited to playing his way.

Absolutely all this! ?

 

[DodgyLasagne]

Is there any other player you'd like ahead of Zaniolo?

I personally think Zaniolo's profile is just not worth the fee. It's not that I dislike him as a player, it's a ton of money for a guy who has a lot of question marks and needs a LOT of development.

Why not spend a bit more for a premium player who can play the 8 like McKennie, Milinkovic-Savic, Maddison? Zaniolo's this direct runner who doesn't add that much. He's not going to help against a low block, and he's too wasteful against the big teams where we'd play on the counter. I just don't see it.

Additionally if we'd like to save money why not look at Olise from Palace?

 

[Cochise]

If we didn't already know, today once again emphasized how important Deki is. Personally I don't think Moura nor Richarlison come close to replicating what Deki gives us and we need someone similar in the forward pack. I don't particularly rate Zaniolo, but he's likely the best option out there for this role.

 

[soflapaul]

What if Zaniolo is worse using the eye test because the stats don’t show how many promising positions he messes up due to over-dribbling

Watching Kulusevski today reminded me why I’m against this transfer. Close to £50m for a guy who just isn’t as good as Kulu. Can you think of a single match situation where you’d rather have him on the pitch than Deki? It just feels off.

It's a fair point if players can't improve. But they can both in terms of physical, tactical and mental. Just look at Emerson's performance today. If that is the shape of things to come, then surely AC could do something magical with a player with as much talent and potential as NZ.

 

[DodgyLasagne]

How do you know he wouldn’t take to the league like Kulu has?

Kulusevski was better in Serie A than Zaniolo in every single season they've played together, he was better at Parma, better at Juve, and yes, he was better in 21-22 (even being shunted out of the team and rotated) at Juve than Zaniolo was.

By January last year Zaniolo had literally one goal contribution. I'm not making this up, I promise.

Kulusevski was, even in Serie A, much smarter, better final ball, better touch, better passer, decision maker...

 

[Timberwolf]

And if Kulu gets injured or needs a rest? It's clear a player with his attributes are important to how we play. Holding the ball up wide, and being able to drive at players and into the box is clearly part of our game plan under Conte.

I'll add to that Kulu was nothing more than a bit part player at Juve, not because he wasn't good but because his attributes didn't fit their style. Conte saw what he could be, rather than seeing a player who wasn't setting the world alight.

That's what it's about, seeing a player with the right attributes and qualities for his way of playing. Not identifying players with good numbers and trying to shoehorn them in when they aren't suited to playing his way.

If that's what we end up getting then great. I'm just personally a bit doubtful about his shortcomings compared with the strengths you mentioned, especially given the price.

As I said, happy to support Conte and hope I'm wrong, but equally don't think everyone on here should have to blindly agree with every choice of signing just because.

 

[Scot-Spur]

Kulusevski was better in Serie A than Zaniolo in every single season they've played together, he was better at Parma, better at Juve, and yes, he was better in 21-22 (even being shunted out of the team and rotated) at Juve than Zaniolo was.

By January last year Zaniolo had literally one goal contribution. I'm not making this up, I promise.

Kulusevski was, even in Serie A, much smarter, better final ball, better touch, better passer, decision maker...

You do realise Zaniolo done his ACL twice and last year was his first season back? Think I would have been better if he was on the treatment table.

 

[barry]

After what I've seen today, if Conte want's him, make it happen. If he's shit and we lose money, so be it. We're rich as fuck

 

[Trix]

If that's what we end up getting then great. I'm just personally a bit doubtful about his shortcomings compared with the strengths you mentioned, especially given the price.

As I said, happy to support Conte and hope I'm wrong, but equally don't think everyone on here should have to blindly agree with every choice of signing just because.

You don't have to blindly agree. At the same time I don't see how anyone can difinitively say he isn't good enough basing it on stats.

Heres the crux of it though, Conte doesn't want Madison, he does really want Zaniolo and he'll be more clued up on their stats than anyone on here.

 

[Timberwolf]

You don't have to blindly agree. At the same time I don't see how anyone can difinitively say he isn't good enough basing it on stats.

Heres the crux of it though, Conte doesn't want Madison, he does really want Zaniolo and he'll be more clued up on their stats than anyone on here.

Yeah fair enough. If Conte wants him then we go for it.

I certainly would never definitively write him off - haven't seen enough of him to do that. Plus he's got age and playing under Conte on his side so he'd surely improve regardless of how good he is now.

 

[DodgyLasagne]

You do realise Zaniolo done his ACL twice and last year was his first season back? Think I would have been better if he was on the treatment table.

You are basically making my point for me here. Yes I know about the ACLs, lol.

Look I will summarize my argument as this. He is a confident, good looking player with pace and physicality, adept at carrying the ball, got good goal-scoring instincts despite his poor returns. I am not saying he is a mug, he's got the look of a star at times.

BUT - what terrifies me to death about him is his concerningly slow decision making. Going to copy and paste this https://www.ultimouomo.com/nicolo-zaniolo-giocatore-piu-fumoso-ultimo-uomo-awards/

So to your point, what are his issues? He's coming off an ACL injury and is rusty, makes poor decisions, lacks the intelligence and vision to pick passes in time. A player like this NEEDS to play all the time to develop, needs to sharpen his passing, touch, final ball, attacking instincts, all of it. Is that really what we need? I could say the exact same about Gil.

What we need, in my view, is more passers, more geniuses, more technical ability, not more runners.

The issue he doesn't impact the game from other positions and is essentially JUST a like for like Kulu sub who doesn't offer anything new to our side. Add to that his obvious need to improve decision making and attacking 3rd contributions, and his massive fee, does he really seem like a guy who contributes to us winning football matches much this year?

So when Kulu needs a rest, he gets what, 10 starts? 20 sub appearances? How are we going to develop him exactly? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[$hoguN]

There are a lot of posts in here doubting this guy’s quality and it feels a lot like the Kulu thread before we signed him.