Marcus Edwards leaving rumour?

[Spursidol]

I understand that and agree but if the club don't think he's ready but he puts up a play me or I'll leave ultimatum, what would you do?

Talk to him. At the moment he's only made a few u18 appearances so needs to get comfortable at that level, but maybe have him make a few appearances off the bench for Spurs u21's. if he flies, then he makes full appearances for Spurs u21's and if he flies, then on bench for EL.

ATM I think he will struggle with the u21's due to his size/physique. and he will realise that if he's exposed to it, and that tempers his desire. But maybe he doesn't in which case prepare to see him on EL bench, but I don't think so this season.

But overall as I said, it needs to be a gradual evolution up the teams, tempered with discussions with the coaches.

 

[IGSpur]

Say you rated them but didn't think they were ready? It's real tough mate.

But then I wouldn't have them on the bench. If they are on the bench and you're midfield is made up of a squad player and a RB he would think that he is not really rated and not going to get a chance there, especially if they then have to call a player out of retirement. What would you do as a player, if you think you are good enough to play?

 

[DaSpurs]

I understand that and agree but if the club don't think he's ready but he puts up a play me or I'll leave ultimatum, what would you do?

It's a fair question you ask, but you have to take into account what he's actually asking for. Those in the know can correct me, but it's my impression that he's mostly just frustrated with not even being selected with the U-18's, while many of his friends in his age group who he knows he's more talented than are now even playing U-21's. So I don't think he's asking for first team minutes, I think he's just aware of his talent and potential, and feels that he's reached a point such that he wants assurances that he's going to receive his fair chance within our academy but he knows he can go to other strong academies to receive more playing time and possibly even get paid more.

So when he's even being tipped by Barca as one of the top talents in the world at his age, I don't blame him for using a bit of leverage to ask the club for more assurances. I love Spurs, but I would absolutely be doing in the same in his situation.

Anyway, point is he's not making the same demands as Pogba would have been making at that age, I think he's just asking for more than he's currently receiving from the academy. Ergo, there's certainly more room to cater to him, and we really should be. Onomah should be playing entirely U-21's next season, and Edwards should take his place primarily playing the No 10 with the U'18's. We're rather thin on the wings with the U-21's for next season as well, so I do think Edwards should also receive assured playing time with them.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Onomah should be playing entirely U-21's next season, and Edwards should take his place primarily playing the No 10 with the U'18's.

onomah played u21s entirely last season, i don't really see what another year of the same is going to do for him.

 

[DaSpurs]

onomah played u21s entirely last season, i don't really see what another year of the same is going to do for him.

In the regular season, yes, but he took the spot Edwards would have played in the FA Youth Cup.

What do you propose for Onomah? A loan? I despair when I see ITK that we have no plans to unload Paulinho and Dembele, as those two lumps are directly blocking the path of Onomah and Winks. If we don't unload them, I don't see Onomah receiving much time at all, unfortunately. Ergo, it's difficult to argue against a loan given those circumstances.

 

[IGSpur]

It's a fair question you ask, but you have to take into account what he's actually asking for. Those in the know can correct me, but it's my impression that he's mostly just frustrated with not even being selected with the U-18's, while many of his friends in his age group who he knows he's more talented than are now even playing U-21's. So I don't think he's asking for first team minutes, I think he's just aware of his talent and potential, and feels that he's reached a point such that he wants assurances that he's going to receive his fair chance within our academy but he knows he can go to other strong academies to receive more playing time and possibly even get paid more.

So when he's even being tipped by Barca as one of the top talents in the world at his age, I don't blame him for using a bit of leverage to ask the club for more assurances. I love Spurs, but I would absolutely be doing in the same in his situation.

Anyway, point is he's not making the same demands as Pogba would have been making at that age, I think he's just asking for more than he's currently receiving from the academy. Ergo, there's certainly more room to cater to him, and we really should be. Onomah should be playing entirely U-21's next season, and Edwards should take his place primarily playing the No 10 with the U'18's. We're rather thin on the wings with the U-21's for next season as well, so I do think Edwards should also receive assured playing time with them.

Ye he may be able to get some wing time with the u21s, also IF Onomah does get used in the first team, some u21 time at 10. The u18s will have 4 players that can all play no.10/W in the academy next year excluding Edwards so for them to get any game time he may find himself in the u21s anyway. Edwards can play 10 in FAYC.

In the regular season, yes, but he took the spot Edwards would have played in the FA Youth Cup.

What do you propose for Onomah? A loan? I despair when I see ITK that we have no plans to unload Paulinho and Dembele, as those two lumps are directly blocking the path of Onomah and Winks. If we don't unload them, I don't see Onomah receiving much time at all, unfortunately. Ergo, it's difficult to argue against a loan given those circumstances.

If we can't shift them particularly Paulinho I'd do what we should have done this year and play Onomah ahead of him anyway. Paulinho if he is going to stay can work himself into the Prem team. Just give Onomah minutes in EL and Cups. We may lose money or whatever on Paulinho but if Onomah plays well we make that money back and maybe more. If he really isn't getting game time then he has to go on loan sadly, as another season in u21s is stalling

 

[DaSpurs]

If we can't shift them particularly Paulinho I'd do what we should have done this year and play Onomah ahead of him anyway. Paulinho if he is going to stay can work himself into the Prem team. Just give Onomah minutes in EL and Cups. We may lose money or whatever on Paulinho but if Onomah plays well we make that money back and maybe more. If he really isn't getting game time then he has to go on loan sadly, as another season in u21s is stalling

I dig the logic, and I agree that the investment in Onomah would likely more than balance out losses on Paulinho at this point.

Ideally, Paulinho and Dembele both leave this summer. I think they serve us utterly no purpose in remaining at the club, and they are soaking up serious wages between them. Combined, I'm sure they net at least 100k in wages. Incredibly expensive bench warmers who have proven inconsistent even when they were starters, and they now do nothing but choke off youth integration, and furthermore at a time when we're so rich at their positions. I find the ITK about them each staying extremely aggravating and disappointing in truth. That sincerely harms Poch's reputation as an "advocate for the youth" IMO. I can understand the need to bring in a RB reinforcement given the situation at the position, but I cannot see the logic in keeping those two players with Pritchard and Carroll returning, and some very promising midfielders on the fringes.

As is though, with that information and the likely outcome, it disappointingly seems as if a loan is the best move for Onomah.

 

[IGSpur]

I dig the logic, and I agree that the investment in Onomah would likely more than balance out losses on Paulinho at this point.

Ideally, Paulinho and Dembele both leave this summer. I think they serve us utterly no purpose in remaining at the club, and they are soaking up serious wages between them. Combined, I'm sure they net at least 100k in wages. Incredibly expensive bench warmers who have proven inconsistent even when they were starters, and they now do nothing but choke off youth integration, and furthermore at a time when we're so rich at their positions. I find the ITK about them each staying extremely aggravating and disappointing in truth. That sincerely harms Poch's reputation as an "advocate for the youth" IMO. I can understand the need to bring in a RB reinforcement given the situation at the position, but I cannot see the logic in keeping those two players with Pritchard and Carroll returning, and some very promising midfielders on the fringes.

As is though, with that information and the likely outcome, it disappointingly seems as if a loan is the best move for Onomah.

What ITK do you refer to? I can possibly stand Dembele staying not Paulinho. If we can't sell them fine but I don't like the idea of wanting to actually keep him. And it's a poor decision considering our youth is bearing more fruit than ever. I just hope he gets his chance, a few minutes is all I ask. Worse case scenario he doesn't perform well and gets a loan. If he does, Poch can't ignore it. If he earns his place over Paulinho so be it, no harm done.

 

[DaSpurs]

What ITK do you refer to? I can possibly stand Dembele staying not Paulinho. If we can't sell them fine but I don't like the idea of wanting to actually keep him. And it's a poor decision considering our youth is bearing more fruit than ever. I just hope he gets his chance, a few minutes is all I ask. Worse case scenario he doesn't perform well and gets a loan. If he does, Poch can't ignore it. If he earns his place over Paulinho so be it, no harm done.

The Dembele bit is actually more recent, and is from JJ. He said we aren't actively planning on selling him, and it's up to him to prove being a part of our plans moving forward. I think we should indeed be looking to actively sell both of them. Between what's already here, strong links to another midfield acquisition, Alli coming in, Onomah and Winks coming up (although I think we can be certain Winks will target a loan this year), it makes no sense to keep either of them.

Unfortunately, you're probably right that it would be a struggle to sell them. Dembele I suspect would be easier, which while I like him more than Paulinho, I'd still be pleased to see at least one of them go.

 

[spursfan77]

My mate worked at Bolton years a go and watched every reserve and under 18 game, I said who is the btest youth player you have seen (this was about 4-5 years a go) he said straight away Pogba, then I read scholes didn't rate him for the under 21s at united. Funny really has my mate was so adamant about him it took another 3 years before I had even heard his name and that was when he was signed by Juv

The thing about Pogba is that he was a massive talent from a young age. Man Utd got in Load of shit when they knicked him off La Harve. Basically what Barcelona have been given a transfer ban for now. I think they got found not guilty in the end or paid some money. I can't quite remember.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/8747110.stm

 

[newbie]

In the regular season, yes, but he took the spot Edwards would have played in the FA Youth Cup.

What do you propose for Onomah? A loan? I despair when I see ITK that we have no plans to unload Paulinho and Dembele, as those two lumps are directly blocking the path of Onomah and Winks. If we don't unload them, I don't see Onomah receiving much time at all, unfortunately. Ergo, it's difficult to argue against a loan given those circumstances.

We are def trying to un load them unless something is really fucked up at the club.

 

[PT]

Winks is 17 going on 18 isn't he? He would have to be puling up a forest to be anywhere near contention in he first team squad any time soon, with no loan experience of the real world.

 

[DaSpurs]

We are def trying to un load them unless something is really fucked up at the club.

Man I cannot tell you how much I hope you're right. I think they'll both be rather tough to sell, Paulinho in particular, so we'll see what happens.

 

[DaSpurs]

Winks is 17 going on 18 isn't he? He would have to be puling up a forest to be anywhere near contention in he first team squad any time soon, with no loan experience of the real world.

19 actually, and unusually composed for his age. I don't think it any coincidence he was even selected for his debut over the more intrinsically talented Onomah, as he's displayed unusual maturity and composure for his age in midfield.

 

[gilzeantheking]

From Jasper on SO

My opinion is he is a prodigious talent on same level as Sterling was at that age. His belief would be he don't want to be hanging around on loans for four years. He would want to see himself in first team picture couple years or less as he develops. He also has a street mentality in the positive sense that he knows his worth and what ability he has, with the right kind of arrogance.

Up to the club to convince him on how much they value him as many are whispering in his ears via his close knit family. This is all opinion of course.

it simply means he 'in his eyes' won't be mugged off in the cut throat world of football. This is not his words just trying to explain 'street mentality'. He does not want anyone to change the way he plays. Believing he has a special gift and wants maximise it. All my opinion ofcourse.

Head not turned as far as I am aware.

 

[Bofbro]

His family are keen for him to stay with us as far has i've been told, he just wants to play more at u18/u21 level whilst the club are keen to protect and rest him while he's playing so many international games...

 

[ralphs bald spot]

One needs to be aware that Marcus has done nothing in football as yet particularly at Tottenham. Last season he made a few fleeting appearances towards the end of the U18 season and though there was promise in one particular game when he came on as a substitute, in the other games he looked what he was a schoolboy playing against older better equipped players generally further along in their football education - he basically struggled to get involved.

Next season he will be in his first senior season and though his reputation goes before him it generally takes time for first years to integrate into the team and the more physical aspect of the football particularly so for a ball player such as Marcus. I have been reading here and elsewhere and we all have a tendency to get over excited about young players. Marcus has ability but it has to be integrated into a team structure. His size and though people will go 'what about Messi' is a disadvantage much like Cy Goddard who has a very decent range of skills he needs to find a role that works for him and the team Cy struggled despite his talent because he didn't cope physically (and had injuries) and then the team structure didn't suit him

I think the other thing people need to realise is that moving into the u18's is a big step for the first years it takes time for them to find their feet so to suggest that any first year needs to be fast tracked can be so counter productive.

Marcus has ability but is a long way from the finished article he has a big season ahead and needs to work his way through to pro terms and then we might be talking about a player. He is well guided at Tottenham and he seems a nice young guy his education is not just about football

 

[IGSpur]

One needs to be aware that Marcus has done nothing in football as yet particularly at Tottenham. Last season he made a few fleeting appearances towards the end of the U18 season and though there was promise in one particular game when he came on as a substitute, in the other games he looked what he was a schoolboy playing against older better equipped players generally further along in their football education - he basically struggled to get involved.

Next season he will be in his first senior season and though his reputation goes before him it generally takes time for first years to integrate into the team and the more physical aspect of the football particularly so for a ball player such as Marcus. I have been reading here and elsewhere and we all have a tendency to get over excited about young players. Marcus has ability but it has to be integrated into a team structure. His size and though people will go 'what about Messi' is a disadvantage much like Cy Goddard who has a very decent range of skills he needs to find a role that works for him and the team Cy struggled despite his talent because he didn't cope physically (and had injuries) and then the team structure didn't suit him

I think the other thing people need to realise is that moving into the u18's is a big step for the first years it takes time for them to find their feet so to suggest that any first year needs to be fast tracked can be so counter productive.

Marcus has ability but is a long way from the finished article he has a big season ahead and needs to work his way through to pro terms and then we might be talking about a player. He is well guided at Tottenham and he seems a nice young guy his education is not just about football

I don't think Edwards will have any problems with his size playing u18s next year he may do thought against the u21s which is why he will need to work on his legs and core to make sure he isn't shoved off the ball.

Regarding Goddard he actually adapted really well. His first season in the academy he was one of the best players using both feet and slipping through massive players. He was played as a CM/CAM and was very creative in those roles. It's just that last season wasn't good for him. I thought he had regressed but it turns out he was essentially injured for most of it, so struggled when he did come back into the team.

I think first years can be fast tracked once they have settled into full time training especially the talented ones. Maghoma, CCV, Onomah, Azzaoui all featured for the u21s as first years and have looked good. It's just a matter of dealing with the size as a youngster

 

[Drexl]

We should integrate him into the first team this season, maybe a couple of league cup or europa appearances even if off the bench

If they good enough they old enough, Rooney was playing regularly at Everton at 16

 

[Larryjanta]

We should integrate him into the first team this season, maybe a couple of league cup or europa appearances even if off the bench

If they good enough they old enough, Rooney was playing regularly at Everton at 16

Rooney was in a man's body at 16, Edwards looks barely into puberty.

I agree with your general point though but Rooney was an exception that proved the rule